Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #5

[darring21]

I agree that a person cannot hold their breath until they die. Breathing is controlled by the autonomic nervous system meaning that once she was unconscious, she would spontaneously start breathing again then wake up. Do we know if the ME said they found water in her lungs? I know that question has been asked before but I can't find a definitive answer.

When the bag was placed over her head, one of two things happened:
1. The bag remained in place until she was dead and the autonomic breathing could not commence= no water in lungs

2. The bag remained in place until she was unconscious but not dead. Once unconscious, the autonomic breathing commenced then she drowned ( and probably regained some degree of consciousness in the process)=water in the lungs
If she did not have water in her lungs, she suffocated. If she had water in her lungs, then she drowned. It can't be both.

A few people have asked this question on the board. It is an excellent question and you have presented it very well. Asphyxiation could lead to drowning but it is one or the other.

 

[Treelights]

Either an attempt to "stage the scene" for her disappearance, or a failed/aborted attempt at suicide.

The animal blood is interesting. Quite possible it was part of "staging the scene" of her disappearance on her way to end her life.

There's still no evidence of the involvement of ANYONE else in this death.

I don't know anyone at MLT PD, but it sounds like they are carefully investigating every avenue.
I am sorry that their conclusion of "no evidence of homicide" disappoints the theorists here, but many deaths are just as strange as this and turn out to be suicide.

If it was suicide, she staged it well so that it would be undetermined.
Even though the town's inhabitants are on edge about a killer on the loose, if Cheryl ended her own life, then She knew there was no killer and that others would not be killed.

I think if it was suicide, she did not want to disappoint her family and friends.

Valentine's Day was soon approaching as well as her wedding anniversary.

For whatever reason if Cheryl committed suicide, she did.

And it was said she was brilliant. If she truly did not want people to know she committed suicide, her plan worked, as Many think she did not kill herself.

It is all so sad.

IMOO.

 

[Dushi]

I agree that a person cannot hold their breath until they die. Breathing is controlled by the autonomic nervous system meaning that once she was unconscious, she would spontaneously start breathing again then wake up. Do we know if the ME said they found water in her lungs? I know that question has been asked before but I can't find a definitive answer.

When the bag was placed over her head, one of two things happened:
1. The bag remained in place until she was dead and the autonomic breathing could not commence= no water in lungs

2. The bag remained in place until she was unconscious but not dead. Once unconscious, the autonomic breathing commenced then she drowned ( and probably regained some degree of consciousness in the process)=water in the lungs
If she did not have water in her lungs, she suffocated. If she had water in her lungs, then she drowned. It can't be both.

As body function declines, aspiration may occur as the larynx relaxes allowing water to enter the lungs. However, up to 20% of drowning victims have persistent spasm of the larynx, and no water is aspirated (this was formerly known as "dry" drowning).

http://www.medicinenet.com/drowning/page2.htm

 

[stryker57]

2. The bag remained in place until she was unconscious but not dead. Once unconscious, the autonomic breathing commenced then she drowned ( and probably regained some degree of consciousness in the process)=water in the lungs
If she did not have water in her lungs, she suffocated. If she had water in her lungs, then she drowned. It can't be both.

There was a small quantity of water in her lungs.

 

[IMissCrossfit]

Since 2008, at least five police employees that I am aware of (police/detective/one and the most recent that I am aware of, a commander) have been fired from the City of Mountlake Terrace. I doubt they were happy about that.

A police employee with sufficient experience, training, abilities, knowledge, with something to prove to the department, could potentially stage a suicide or commit a homicide. This area at the library/ park is an approximate 20 second? drive to their front door...so close to the PD.

Is it routine procedure to naturally consider and investigate every possibility ? Wouldn't these avenues routinely be looked into?

Again, as with other suggestions that have come up I as well am not pointing a finger but I would think they would have to be POIs if we were going to cover every possibility. I wouldn't even disclose this as something they were looking into to the public if I were a PD.

But perhaps that hasn't been considered as it seems police sound like they are leaning towards suicide.

As much as police say the people don't want to believe it is a suicide, I think the department feels the same about this possibility.


My mobile

 

[Treelights]

I read that it was a fresh water drowning.

When they administer testing, do they test the water in the lungs specifically to find out that it was fresh water from the culvert? Could it have been tap water? I know they said fresh water, so did they analyze the compounds in the water itself to distinguish between the culvert water and say water in your faucet?
Or do they surmise it is fresh water because that is where her body was found?

IMOO.

 

[krig101]

From David Rose Q13 News via his Facebook:

"My colleague, Brandi Kruse, talked with Mountlake Terrace Police Chief Greg Wilson this morning to get some clarification on the lack of evidence to suggest a homicide in Cheryl DeBoer's case. He says there were no defensive wounds. Her car was locked and secured. Her clothes were intact and not disheveled. No tips have come in that offer any insight into her death that would suggest it was a homicide. No physical evidence or lack of evidence that would support “robbery, assault, or abduction.” There is no evidence she was restrained. “You have to put emotions aside. That’s difficult for the community. It’s difficult for the family," said Chief Wilson who added “As with any case like this, we’re going to take a methodical approach in our investigation." Several crime labs are assisting in analyzing evidence including the plastic bag, her car, computer and phone records. The Chief says it would be premature to rule on manner of death before those labs are done analyzing that evidence."

Then where is her wallet and phone?!

If someone attacked her from behind, placed a bag over her head there may not be any defensive wounds......She may have been immediately passed out.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Eclipsed]

Around the 01:46 mark in the video at the link, it is reported that LE has not received the toxicology report from the ME yet:

http://www.kiro7.com/news/medical-e...deboers-death-asphyxia-and-drowning/173368170

Listen to the kiro7 interview; no evidence of homicidal violence.
As told by the reporter, at the very end, when she asked about the toxicology report...Toxicology report will show either accidental or death by suicide.

 

[stryker57]

From day 1 police put out a precedent that they were leaning towards a runaway, she probably just wanted to get away. They are trying to mold the evidence to fit their theory of runaway/suicide that they have held from the very beginning when they had no real reason to believe she would runaway based on interviews with close to 100 friends, family, coworkers etc...

 

[Treelights]

Listen to the kiro7 interview; no evidence of homicidal violence.
As told by the reporter, at the very end, when she asked about the toxicology report...Toxicology report will show either accidental or death by suicide.

I know! Crazy! I heard that about accidental or suicide!

 

[darring21]

A lack of evidence doesn't prove or disprove anything.

Perhaps it was suicide or perhaps it was a lousy investigation or perhaps it is a lucky murderer.

They have to have additional evidence to prove or disprove homicide.

 

[Treelights]

From day 1 police put out a precedent that they were leaning towards a runaway, she probably just wanted to get away. They are trying to mold the evidence to fit their theory of runaway/suicide that they have held from the very beginning when they had no real reason to believe she would runaway based on interviews with close to 100 friends, family, coworkers etc...

Runaway?

I read a story early on that they felt it was a possible kidnapping at one point…

ETA:

"At the time, police were investigating the case as a possible kidnapping."

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20160216/NEWS01/160219330

 

[IMissCrossfit]

From day 1 police put out a precedent that they were leaning towards a runaway, she probably just wanted to get away. They are trying to mold the evidence to fit their theory of runaway/suicide that they have held from the very beginning when they had no real reason to believe she would runaway based on interviews with close to 100 friends, family, coworkers etc...

I agree with you ~

My mobile

 

[stryker57]

I don't know why they are with holding toxicology reports. They told us results last week what the results were.

 

[Treelights]

Why do police feel she wanted to "get away"?

Valentine's Day and her wedding anniversary were approaching…

Is there something LE knows that others don't?

Very Odd!

IMOO.

 

[darring21]

Runaway?

I read a story early on that they felt it was a possible kidnapping at one point…

ETA:

"At the time, police were investigating the case as a possible kidnapping."

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20160216/NEWS01/160219330

It's odd because it seemed like they were quick to say the public was not in danger. A missing woman with blood in her car and they are investigating as a possible kidnapping sounds like a danger to the public. Maybe that statement came later?

 

[marcyjoy]

Since 2008, at least five police employees that I am aware of (police/detective/one and the most recent that I am aware of, a commander) have been fired from the City of Mountlake Terrace. I doubt they were happy about that.


My mobile

Do you have a source for this information?

 

[stryker57]

Why do police feel she wanted to "get away"?.

Because I believe in most missing person cases the person needs time, and runs off etc... From the get go I pretty much knew the end results would not be happy. I still gave my self hope. It was completely out of character for her to go missing, or runaway. Runaway is just the easiest assumption police can make.

I know suicide can be out of character as well. Of course emotions might persuade me one way or another (like homicide). But I am capable of accepting suicide if that is determined by additional evidence. I doubt anything will be produced from her phone or computer records. If anything is produced it would come from the forensic analysis the WSP crime lab is working on etc...

Her previous job before working for the Hutch was as a chemist analyzing samples and providing reports to EPA, and other govt. agencies. She would know that it would be easy to distinguish animal blood from human blood. Very highly unlikely that she would attempt to poorly stage a scene like that.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

This may get a little lengthy. First and foremost, I would like to extend my sincere gratitude to stryker and lava for their valuable contribution and irreplaceable insight. I wish we had a stryker and lava in every case.

I have followed Cheryl's case from the very beginning. However, I have not posted much, except for the occasional link here and there, because I have been (and still am) so on the fence as to what might have happened: I just cannot discount the possibility of suicide.

I just would like to share a personal perspective. I very much believe that everyone is different, and the last thing I wish to do is to even remotely suggest that I know what was going through Cheryl's mind on the morning of Feb. 8th. It is also important to point out that based on MSM reports, as well as personal accounts, Cheryl was a happy, healthy woman with no history of mental illness, while I have suffered from depression on and off for almost 30 years now with multiple hospitalizations for that reason, and that I am not a clinician.

I just want to say that I can completely see myself doing all of the things Cheryl did that morning (i.e., taking the food out of the freezer for dinner, leaving home to go to work, rather than staying home, texting to her carpool partner that she would only be gone for 10 minutes and that she may ride back with him/her at the end of the day -but also telling him/er, "Just go without me"-, etc.) and then ending my life an hour or two later.

I have been on medication and have had regular therapy (once every week or every other week, depending on symptoms) continuously for the last 17 years, and over the years, I have learned to recognize that maybe it's time to ask for extra help if I find myself either:

1. absolutely obsessing over how I can "off myself" while minimizing its potential effect on my children (one is a teen, and the other a "tween") as much as possible. My teenage daughter also suffers from a mood disorder (her psychiatrist suspects bi-polar), so if I am to go through with it, it would be of utmost importance that it does not look like a suicide, so as to not set a poor example for my daughter. Naturally, I would not leave a note because I would not want them to know the truth.

2. feeling -what I describe as- an overwhelming urge to end my life. This is very difficult to explain, and does not happen often, but I have noticed its frequency and intensity increasing with the onset of perimenopause (I am in my early 40's, and a female ). I may be driving home after work, and suddenly, I am overcome by an urge to go off the road, or stop by at the Walgreen's at the next exit, get a couple of packs of Benedryl and a bottle of vodka, and go sit by the nearest creek (once I start to feel sleepy, I may fall in, which would ensure death; also, there would be no mess in the car for others to clean up). There would be no note, because all I am focusing on is to end it all, so to speak, as fast as possible.

Usually, for me, there is something -however minute and insignificant it may seem- that triggers this type of mindset. It can be something as small as someone cutting me off while driving, or texting someone and not being able to think of a word I know I should be able to remember. Medical research suggests that perimenopause affects one's cognitive capabilities, and, while it may all be in my head, I am definitely feeling its effects.

My sincere apologies if anyone finds this offensive. Again, I am not suggesting that this is what Cheryl was going through. I do not wish this upon my worst enemy. Depression really sucks, and I hate how badly it affects not only the patient suffering from it but his/er loved ones.

 

[ANZAC]

Why do police feel she wanted to "get away"?

Valentine's Day and her wedding anniversary were approaching…

Is there something LE knows that others don't?

Very Odd!

IMOO.

If they uncover some smoking gun on the suicide angle, they're not going to just release a PDF of the suicide note or email for everyone to look at. They'll make some statements saying we found x,y,z which lead us to believe q. They're also going to try to be as careful as possible (and as vague as possible) to consider the family's feelings in what they release to the media.