Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #5

[kammiemc]

A road rage? Someone refferred it some posts behind.

No, makes no sense at all. Cheryl was a 53 yo woman. I know by experience that people is much more tolerant to us when we are this age. The young ones have some respect. The ones that are our age too respect us.

Cheryl was not a pedantic arrogante person that could drive someone mad at her. I think that someone who could approach her inside her car with the intent of having a go at that driver would tame down after seeing her!

Neither road rage, nor a robery going bad, not a heart attack or any sudden ilness. Nothing to me points to it.

In my opinion Cheyl was never that morning at the spot her car was found and it wasn't her who wrote those texts.

I too think her phone was only needed to justify her absence in the carpool and also to ping at the zone she would be at that time. After this it was powered down in order to stop pinging and also because the perp didn't want to have to be dealing with her colleague with more back and forth texts. The more they wrote the more the carpool colleague could see something was fishy about those texts. The important was only to let the carpool know that she would go home because of the badge and then it was switched off and the car was parked to be found later.

I tend to believe she was already in that culvert or was put there later night.

This would mean that whoever did this staged the entire event to make it look like she set off on her commute as normal, but really she never drove her car off the driveway. The two sticking points I have with this theory are:

-if a perp wrote the text, why wouldn't they just write that she would catch a bus or drive herself instead of having the carpool wait, which could lead to them calling 911 when she didn't show?

-If someone else wrote the text, that would require them to be very familiar with her routine and know that her badge was not on her and had been left at her house.

Obviously this would mean she was targeted. It would take some cunning to come up with something as intricate as the badge scenario. And obviously there would have to be some sort of motive.


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[JanetElaine]

A road rage? Someone refferred it some posts behind.

No, makes no sense at all. Cheryl was a 53 yo woman. I know by experience that people is much more tolerant to us when we are this age. The young ones have some respect. The ones that are our age too respect us.

I was the one who suggested that theory. I am only a few years younger than Cheryl and what you're describing is not my experience at all. Jerks do not care about someone's age anymore. I've experienced plenty of road rage towards me when all I was doing was minding my own business.

Cheryl was not a pedantic arrogante person that could drive someone mad at her. I think that someone who could approach her inside her car with the intent of having a go at that driver would tame down after seeing her!

You don't have to be a pedantic arrogant person for someone to get mad at you. Especially not in the case of road rage where the rager already has a short fuse. I do not believe that Cheryl would be immune from road rage aimed at her just by her age or how she looked.

Neither road rage, nor a robery going bad, not a heart attack or any sudden ilness. Nothing to me points to it.

In my opinion Cheyl was never that morning at the spot her car was found and it wasn't her who wrote those texts.

I too think her phone was only needed to justify her absence in the carpool and also to ping at the zone she would be at that time. After this it was powered down in order to stop pinging and also because the perp didn't want to have to be dealing with her colleague with more back and forth texts. The more they wrote the more the carpool colleague could see something was fishy about those texts. The important was only to let the carpool know that she would go home because of the badge and then it was switched off and the car was parked to be found later.

I tend to believe she was already in that culvert or was put there later night.

bbm

People keep saying that, but I've never seen an explanation as to how they believe the perp would be able to come up with the correct information to text the coworker. I can't believe they just guessed correctly that Cheryl forgot her badge and that a roundtrip home would be about ten minutes, not to mention they guessed correctly that she was actually going to park where the car was found.

What would your explanation for that be if this is your theory?

 

[JanetElaine]

Thanking your post. (No "thanks" button on my phone.) the "robbery gone bad" scenario has never made any sense to me.

I also doubt the perp used her car and returned it. Even if he needed to get back to his own car, why return her car to the spot where someone might possibly have witnessed the crime happening? A car loaded with DNA? It would have made more sense to stash it in the general area for the remainder of the day, then run it off a nearby boat launch at night (Lake Ballinger, for example).

Not if he was trying to get to work on time. If it was a commuter who did this they would have made sure to get to work as close to their normal time as usual in order to secure a good alibi.

Plus an old car like that has tons of DNA in it anyway. Are they able to distinguish old(er) from new(er) DNA?

 

[kammiemc]

I was the one who suggested that theory. I am only a few years younger than Cheryl and what you're describing is not my experience at all. Jerks do not care about someone's age anymore. I've experienced plenty of road rage towards me when all I was doing was minding my own business.



You don't have to be a pedantic arrogant person for someone to get mad at you. Especially not in the case of road rage where the rager already has a short fuse. I do not believe that Cheryl would be immune from road rage aimed at her just by her age or how she looked.



bbm

People keep saying that, but I've never seen an explanation as to how they believe the perp would be able to come up with the correct information to text the coworker. I can't believe they just guessed correctly that Cheryl forgot her badge and that a roundtrip home would be about ten minutes, not to mention they guessed correctly that she was actually going to park where the car was found.

What would your explanation for that be if this is your theory?

I don't have a pet theory, but I lean toward expecting we will find out this was a random crime of opportunity, like the time a guy chased me down parking garage steps in broad daylight. (I got people's attention and he fled.)

I will try to answer the question, even though it wasn't directed at me: The only way I can see the perp knowing that she didn't have a badge is if the whole thing were pre-planned. As in, someone knew ahead of time that she would not have her badge (or even had access to her home ahead of time to make it look misplaced) knowing that they would be using her phone to give that excuse to her carpool--and like beesknees said, the reason for doing that would be to make sure her phone location (ping) was established on 58th.

While there have been loads of staged crimes (so I don't dismiss this theory for thinking it's too out there--sheesh check out Teresa Sievers case on WS if you want to see a realllly out there scenario that happened) I don't get why the perp would have the carpool wait around. It would only make sense to send them on their way.

I think LE would have a good feeling at this point whether this was random or targeted. Usually they give up that info. I assume that's something they shared with the family but not the public. Maybe they have someone in mind who knows her and we just don't know it.

I have learned not to assume anything, but I am thinking this was random and hope LE can identify the random murder/murderers of Cheryl.


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[kammiemc]

Not if he was trying to get to work on time. If it was a commuter who did this they would have made sure to get to work as close to their normal time as usual in order to secure a good alibi.

Plus an old car like that has tons of DNA in it anyway. Are they able to distinguish old(er) from new(er) DNA?

I think this is exactly right. The culvert would be a very convenient and semi-good hiding place that gives the perp some coverage with the sign and off-street parking. (Plus a three-way vantage point to look for cars.) And it was not real light out.

Getting to the culvert from 58th (or the home) and getting on the freeway wouldn't take more than ten mins. And I have a feeling that they didn't take great time and care in putting their victim in the culvert. Maybe a minute? This would have been a quicker endeavor than going through the McD's drive through for coffee.

I have a feeling that the perps did not stumble upon the culvert but knew it would be a good place. Also they knew that she would be found there. So whoever did this was not trying to prevent her from being found. They just didn't want to be caught.


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[JanetElaine]

I don't have a pet theory, but I lean toward expecting we will find out this was a random crime of opportunity, like the time a guy chased me down parking garage steps in broad daylight. (I got people's attention and he fled.)

I will try to answer the question, even though it wasn't directed at me: The only way I can see the perp knowing that she didn't have a badge is if the whole thing were pre-planned. As in, someone knew ahead of time that she would not have her badge (or even had access to her home ahead of time to make it look misplaced) knowing that they would be using her phone to give that excuse to her carpool--and like beesknees said, the reason for doing that would be to make sure her phone location (ping) was established on 58th.

While there have been loads of staged crimes (so I don't dismiss this theory for thinking it's too out there--sheesh check out Teresa Sievers case on WS if you want to see a realllly out there scenario that happened) I don't get why the perp would have the carpool wait around. It would only make sense to send them on their way.

I think LE would have a good feeling at this point whether this was random or targeted. Usually they give up that info. I assume that's something they shared with the family but not the public. Maybe they have someone in mind who knows her and we just don't know it.

I have learned not to assume anything, but I am thinking this was random and hope LE can identify the random murder/murderers of Cheryl.


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bbm

Anyone's theories are good to hear.

Staged crimes are definitely not something to dismiss offhand. (I have been following the Sievers case). However with what's been released so far plus some answers from Cheryl's son, I do not believe this crime was staged.

I agree that LE likely has things narrowed down quite a bit, and I agree it was most likely random - for whatever reason. She could have ran into (literally or figuratively speaking) a short fused jerk who got violent, she could have been lured and kidnapped by people pretending to need help.... and so on.

That makes me think of something else, and I do not recall if it has been discussed or not - do we know if Cheryl was in the habit of carrying cash, and if so, sometimes maybe a lot of cash (not thousands, but a couple of hundred maybe)? Or did she prefer to use a credit or debit card?

 

[TeaTime]

It is very unlikely that a perp was waiting in or around Mrs. Deboer's car when she left her home, then forced her to drive to the park and ride, park, wait as she texted her friend, then attacked her and drove her in her car to the culvert before returning the car to the parking spot by 8am.

I think it is more likely that we are looking at 2 predators: one driving the getaway car and one who physically forced Mrs. DeBoer into the vehicle. I believe that the most likely scenario is that Mrs. DeBoer was returning to her parked car after she realized her badge was still at home, texting as she walked, and presented the perfect target for the 2 predators who were prowling for a victim.

She was tiny, alone, distracted and it was dark. I think they drove up next to her, manhandled her into the vehicle and drove away in mere seconds.

Now just who is on the streets prowling for victims at such an early hour? I think it is someone who doesn't have to be at work in the morning. I think these 2 are co-workers who ride to work together, work the night shift somewhere in the area of the park and ride and at least one of them passes the culvert twice daily on his commute and I think it is the driver. I believe the driver is the instigator and planner.

I think the driver lives close to the culvert area, in one of the suburban neighborhoods, is a regular Joe with a family, a job and a mortgage and he passes the culvert twice daily, once late at night on the way to work and again on the way home after his night shift. This is how he knows that he can dispose of her body there at 10pm or so without risking being seen by other drivers. I think he is the "leader' of the two and convinced his co-worker to participate. I think he has a home with a garage where Mrs. Deboer was hidden in the vehicle until it was time for him to go to work on Monday night and that his family (if he has one) was working and at school on Monday, giving him and his friend time to commit the crimes in the privacy of the dwelling. No one questioned where he or his accomplice were on Monday morning because they were doing the usual; working and commuting.

I also believe that he kept a trophy and that trophy was noticed by someone who did not associate it with the crime. It could be as simple as a new phone or a key chain. If LE would release a description of Mrs. DeBoer's jewelry, purse, wallet, phone, clothing, etc. this person may make the connection and call to report the lead.

I think of all the predators who are 'great guys' according to their unsuspecting neighbors and I think this one is invisible in plain sight - like BTK and Ted. No one would ever suspect him of depravity.

I think he may have seen Mrs.DeBoer many times going through her morning park and ride routine but this morning was unusual as she did not immediately walk away towards her carpool meeting place.

 

[brandi]

....whoever did this crime is not a "worker bee"somewhere. The person who did this crime has a level of depravity that does not allow them to function in society in that way. They did not pre-plan it, commit it and roll off to work or partner up with someone to go on a killing spree after work.....

 

[JanetElaine]

I also believe that he kept a trophy and that trophy was noticed by someone who did not associate it with the crime. It could be as simple as a new phone or a key chain. If LE would release a description of Mrs. DeBoer's jewelry, purse, wallet, phone, clothing, etc. this person may make the connection and call to report the lead.

respectfully snipped for space

Interesting theory TeaTime. Nothing in there that is disputed by known facts. Not totally sold on it, but I don't think it's outlandish either and it could have happened how you describe it.

The quoted part IMO is very important regardless of what happened. I've been wondering why none of this info was released. Unless LE has the objects and they are for some reason not disclosing they do.

 

[Miziree]

http://myedmondsnews.com/2016/03/edmonds-police-seeking-man-in-connection-with-assault/

We went to a call last night of a female being assaulted while trying to get out of a car,” Edmonds police said in a Facebook post Sunday morning.

They did find this guy this morning. I can't believe how many of these we are seeing in such a short time and such a small area.
https://mobile.twitter.com/EdmondsPolice/status/711622237246197760

There was also a 12 year old who was followed the other day. https://mobile.twitter.com/EdmondsPolice/status/710997006370484224

Don't know if either of these are related to Cheryl but I thought I would mention them.

Moo

 

[JanetElaine]

....whoever did this crime is not a "worker bee"somewhere. The person who did this crime has a level of depravity that does not allow them to function in society in that way. They did not pre-plan it, commit it and roll off to work or partner up with someone to go on a killing spree after work.....

I would love to believe that. That all the seemingly normal people around us are in fact normal and safe. That the depraved ones who would commit crimes like this surely would stand out, or be outcasts, that they would not be the every day Jack or Jane you see at the coffee machine at work. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Hope this source is okay: http://www.mandatory.com/2013/09/19/10-murderers-who-hid-in-plain-sight/

The article is called 'Ten murderers who hid in plain sight'.

 

[WhisperWorm]

http://myedmondsnews.com/2016/03/edmonds-police-seeking-man-in-connection-with-assault/

We went to a call last night of a female being assaulted while trying to get out of a car,” Edmonds police said in a Facebook post Sunday morning.

They did find this guy this morning. I can't believe how many of these we are seeing in such a short time and such a small area.
https://mobile.twitter.com/EdmondsPolice/status/711622237246197760

There was also a 12 year old who was followed the other day. https://mobile.twitter.com/EdmondsPolice/status/710997006370484224

Don't know if either of these are related to Cheryl but I thought I would mention them.

Moo

It would be very interesting to see if the vehicle shown in that first link can be seen on the video surveillance on that day that Cheryl disappeared.

 

[kammiemc]

I would love to believe that. That all the seemingly normal people around us are in fact normal and safe. That the depraved ones who would commit crimes like this surely would stand out, or be outcasts, that they would not be the every day Jack or Jane you see at the coffee machine at work. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Hope this source is okay: http://www.mandatory.com/2013/09/19/10-murderers-who-hid-in-plain-sight/

The article is called 'Ten murderers who hid in plain sight'.

Ted Bundy.


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[kammiemc]

....whoever did this crime is not a "worker bee"somewhere. The person who did this crime has a level of depravity that does not allow them to function in society in that way. They did not pre-plan it, commit it and roll off to work or partner up with someone to go on a killing spree after work.....

I dunno. I see what you are saying. But both random crimes (think serial killers) and targeted crimes where the killers know the victim and are motivated by things like greed, revenge, freedom, love, etc., happen all the time by people you'd never expect. They do their crime then go to work, eat sandwiches, go home to their families. Casey Anthony went to a party.


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[saengseon]

If it was a homicide, then it was totally random. If so, someone may have gotten off the I-5 freeway from the south in search of someone to rob. They didn't know the area, because they would know that the police station is a block away. However, with that said, that doesn't mean much. Police are out on patrol and it wouldn't matter. Either way, it had to be a couple of people who would probably have a van to abduct. Well, it could have been a sedan. Anyway, they'd maybe in need of a fix for drugs. Totally random pulled off freeway. Or they live in the area. They needed some quick cash. Get the ATM card and make a withdrawal.

The question is: where is the phone. Why not the police ask to turn one in? I personally saw a broken one near my home and thought nothing of it, just a cheap junk Android phone (Zen?) and battery missing. Left it be.

Anyway, whatever happened, I doubt it was targeted and planned. <modsnip>

 

[saengseon]

With her badge being found at home, but not in its usual place, like it fell behind clothes or clothes were on top of it, per stryker57's post, ( I don't remember the Exact wording), do you think Cheryl told someone about her badge? And they (the perp) texted that the badge was at home?
Do you think someone placed Cheryl's badge back in her home? I am not quite following...



IMOO.

Stryker said that she was absent-minded or misplaced her badge frequently. I don't think the badge has anything to do with the story aside from the fact that she said she forgot it. If there was an abduction, then it would have happened right then on 58th. Well, highly likely it happened then.

 

[DatelineFan]

....whoever did this crime is not a "worker bee"somewhere. The person who did this crime has a level of depravity that does not allow them to function in society in that way. They did not pre-plan it, commit it and roll off to work or partner up with someone to go on a killing spree after work.....

I think I have to disagree with this. I would say that most murderers I've read about were functioning in society. Most of them held jobs and many have had families. I think that's part of how many of them get away with it for awhile. They're blending in.

 

[Terrace12]

If it was a homicide, then it was totally random. If so, someone may have gotten off the I-5 freeway from the south in search of someone to rob. They didn't know the area, because they would know that the police station is a block away. However, with that said, that doesn't mean much. Police are out on patrol and it wouldn't matter. Either way, it had to be a couple of people who would probably have a van to abduct. Well, it could have been a sedan. Anyway, they'd maybe in need of a fix for drugs. Totally random pulled off freeway. Or they live in the area. They needed some quick cash. Get the ATM card and make a withdrawal.

The question is: where is the phone. Why not the police ask to turn one in? I personally saw a broken one near my home and thought nothing of it, just a cheap junk Android phone (Zen?) and battery missing. Left it be.

Anyway, whatever happened, I doubt it was targeted and planned.<modsnip>

I agree, I am thinking it was someone from the area . People who just jump off the freeway wouldnt just happen to go by the culvert or know about it. The culvert is in a quiet somewhat area and at night it is pitch dark and in the morning it isnt as busy as people think it is. A half a mile north on 236th is much more busy because that road takes you directly to the freeway the people from the north will go that way. I grew up in this area and that is what I know it to be. Once you pass the light at 236th and you continue south toward the culvert it is very quiet and eerie feeling driving and was before all of this ever happend. That is how I felt anyway.

 

[TweebieDirt]

I was just crusing around on google maps trying to get familar with that area and I saw a Mosque, does that mean there is a large muslim population near there ?

Yes, there are at least two mosques in the area. One is at 5507 238th St SW in Mountlake Terrace, the other borders Mountlake Terrace in a town named Shoreline, at 20004 24th Ave NE. There is a Section 8 apartment complex near the latter, and the majority of residents in this complex are Muslim. Also, in the strip mall near where Cheryl's car was found, there is a small Muslim grocery, Paradise Market.

 

[kammiemc]

I agree, I am thinking it was someone from the area . People who just jump off the freeway wouldnt just happen to go by the culvert or know about it. The culvert is in a quiet somewhat area and at night it is pitch dark and in the morning it isnt as busy as people think it is. A half a mile north on 236th is much more busy because that road takes you directly to the freeway the people from the north will go that way. I grew up in this area and that is what I know it to be. Once you pass the light at 236th and you continue south toward the culvert it is very quiet and eerie feeling driving and was before all of this ever happend. That is how I felt anyway.

I definitely feel like the perp (or perps) was someone was someone who knew about the culvert ahead of time. I don't think it was someone making a turn off from I-5 who abducted someone then drove around and stumbled upon the culvert, noticing it might be a decent hiding place.


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