DatelineFan
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I think this is much more likely. Yes.
Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #7
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mrsgladyskravitz
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Well, while we've heard where the body was found, they were managing the scene, so I assume there was a reason to have crime scene tape on the east side and not the west.
If she was found in the water on the west side, and there was no evidence on the bank, and there were signs she entered on the east side, I could see putting tape there and not on the west. We only put the tape up to protect an area where we are working.
Or, the reports were wrong and maybe she was found inside the culvert itself?
Let me put it another way --- if we find a body in the middle of a river, we don't tape off the river edge, we tape off where we think we will find evidence, eg where they went into the water, where they died, etc.
A gun with her fingerprints and GSR on her hand would have been better.
Better for what? She died from asphyxiation and drowning <modsnip>
Can you tell me what you are referring to as the "actual evidence?"
JanetElaine
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And not without reason. Even MLT police is still investigating. If they were 100% certain it was a suicide, the investigation would be concluded. Instead, there is apparently evidence left that needs to be looked at in order to come to a definite conclusion. That means right now, the bunch of people thinking this is a homicide are equally correct as the people who think this is a suicide.
(ETA excuse any grammar weirdness. Going to pull my English-as-a-2nd-language card. I can tell that sentence doesn't 'flow', but not sure how to fix it while keeping my meaning).
IMissCrossfit
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I am not suggesting tape should not have been on the east side. Tape was definitely a necessity !
I am suggesting it should have *also* been on the west side.
Wasn't Cheryl found on the west side?
Perhaps I am wrong.
*If* Cheryl was found on the west, it should have been taped off longer than one night during the recovery (edited to reword).
an unknown device
For the sake of understanding the evidence, I'm going to assume that Cheryl intended to commit suicide, and that it was very well planned. One explanation for the evidence is that she wanted to ensure that her husband was not a suspect, that her suicide would not be interrupted, that police searched for her body, and that police understood it as a suicide after her body was found.
For example, if she committed suicide at home, there would be a possibility that investigators assume it was a murder, leaving her husband vulnerable to criminal charges. Suicide away from home, after he was alibied at work, cleared him. Leaving animal blood on the passenger seat floor board of her car ensures that investigators react to the blood and immediately start a search. Suicide close to the vehicle increases the probability that the body is found. The razor blade in her pocket clarifies, after her body was found, that she may have used it to cut her fingers.
The evidence seems bizarre as a murder, but as a well planned suicide, it makes sense.
For example, if she committed suicide at home, there would be a possibility that investigators assume it was a murder, leaving her husband vulnerable to criminal charges. Suicide away from home, after he was alibied at work, cleared him. Leaving animal blood on the passenger seat floor board of her car ensures that investigators react to the blood and immediately start a search. Suicide close to the vehicle increases the probability that the body is found. The razor blade in her pocket clarifies, after her body was found, that she may have used it to cut her fingers.
The evidence seems bizarre as a murder, but as a well planned suicide, it makes sense.
1&2&3
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As time passes, it seems the more questions we come up with.
For Cheryl to have been successful in a suicide attempt, she had to do research on the manner chosen, IMO. The majority of us would not think of or know about this procedure. Where did she do her research? With her cell phone missing, is this what she used to read up on the various ways to commit suicide? She knew her phone records could be pulled, but do they show what you search for on a search engine?
For Cheryl to be so depressed, upset as to end her life, what had occurred to bring this on? Someone knows something! She didn't go from a cheery happy person to the deep depths that causes one to commit suicide overnight. What do we not know for those who believe she died by suicide?
Had she been bypassed for a promotion? Had her job become too stressful with more demands, more hours? Was her marriage as happy as people believed? No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Were there money problems? Adjusting to an "empty nest" can be difficult. Just a few thoughts on what may have been bothering her.
Somewhere on this thread it was mentioned that maybe she had received a bad health diagnosis. I disagree with this because this should have been found in the autopsy if it were true.
What points to me that this was a murder is Cheryl parked her car about 7:02 to text her carpool buddy. At 8:00, the car that parked behind her said her car was already there.
So, at that busy time of the morning, almost one hour went by without a car parking behind her! Very unusual, also very convenient for a perp to snatch her easily. Doesn't appear the area Cheryl parked in was a sought after parking place.
For Cheryl to have been successful in a suicide attempt, she had to do research on the manner chosen, IMO. The majority of us would not think of or know about this procedure. Where did she do her research? With her cell phone missing, is this what she used to read up on the various ways to commit suicide? She knew her phone records could be pulled, but do they show what you search for on a search engine?
For Cheryl to be so depressed, upset as to end her life, what had occurred to bring this on? Someone knows something! She didn't go from a cheery happy person to the deep depths that causes one to commit suicide overnight. What do we not know for those who believe she died by suicide?
Had she been bypassed for a promotion? Had her job become too stressful with more demands, more hours? Was her marriage as happy as people believed? No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Were there money problems? Adjusting to an "empty nest" can be difficult. Just a few thoughts on what may have been bothering her.
Somewhere on this thread it was mentioned that maybe she had received a bad health diagnosis. I disagree with this because this should have been found in the autopsy if it were true.
What points to me that this was a murder is Cheryl parked her car about 7:02 to text her carpool buddy. At 8:00, the car that parked behind her said her car was already there.
So, at that busy time of the morning, almost one hour went by without a car parking behind her! Very unusual, also very convenient for a perp to snatch her easily. Doesn't appear the area Cheryl parked in was a sought after parking place.
Part of me wonders what made the volunteers check the culvert on the 6th day? Not that I think that is suspicious, but I was personally spooked by the sight of the culvert on the Saturday before. I saw people grid searching with dogs on grassy areas, when I drove bye, and I was already feeling sad for this whole situation, then you get to the end of road, where that big enterance to the culvert is literally staring back at you and I thought to myself that someone must have peaked in there, b/c it is noticeable. You might even hide in there if someone was chasing you, or look for your lost dog, it just gives off that vibe, that it is worth a peak, if someone is missing close to it. So maybe a lot of locals all thought the same thing, someone probably peaked in there already. I couldn't imagine someone calling the police saying "hey did you know there is a culvert going to under the road?" - I wonder if that's why it took 6 days. No one else was ever weirder out by that spot, before she was missing? Or its so weird, that ppl assumed someone might have already looked there?
I agree, that her job as a database programmer would not give her access to vials of Animal blood. I work in research too and most animal studies take place in vivariums with limited badge access. In my company, only those people conducting animal studies have access to the vivarium and if anyone else within the company attempts to get in by scanning their badge the door simply won't open. I would imagine that the Hutch has similar security measures-most reputable labs do.
One thing I found interesting was that the animal blood in the car was "smear-able" . Blood, once drawn, usually clots within 10 minutes unless it is put in a vial with either lithium-heparin (green top vial) or another preservative called EDTA (lavender top vial). In the lab, we routinely put blood samples in one of these types of vials so that we can analyze the sample at a later date because once it has clotted, we can no longer analyze it. This type of blood sample preservation happens routinely at veterinary hospitals too. Many people have theorized that the animal blood in CDs car was planted there and came from a vial of blood from the Hutch or a veterinary hospital. It seems like the ME would be able to tell if the blood contained lithium -heparin or EDTA.
One thing I found interesting was that the animal blood in the car was "smear-able" . Blood, once drawn, usually clots within 10 minutes unless it is put in a vial with either lithium-heparin (green top vial) or another preservative called EDTA (lavender top vial). In the lab, we routinely put blood samples in one of these types of vials so that we can analyze the sample at a later date because once it has clotted, we can no longer analyze it. This type of blood sample preservation happens routinely at veterinary hospitals too. Many people have theorized that the animal blood in CDs car was planted there and came from a vial of blood from the Hutch or a veterinary hospital. It seems like the ME would be able to tell if the blood contained lithium -heparin or EDTA.
Aunt_Tulip
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We know that it was enough to smear at some point. We don't know that it was still smearable when the car was found, right?
Mollyandme
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I'm not clear on that but it did cross my mind that maybe when the animal blood was found it was already smeared by someone or something, which could have lead to the reports that it was enough to be smeared with a hand
stryker57
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Local 4:30 AM broadcast on KIRO states the blood in the car was Cheryls and "animal"
My parents have cats, when transported they are in cat carrier. No blood is inside the cat carrier. Also animal blood was fresh enough and of substantial quantity to be able to smear with your hand.
eucalyptuz
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One thing that would help me accept suicide would be if a second or third plastic bag were found in a pocket. Most take-away food comes in bags that are of cheap quality and easily torn. I think a person who had decided to use this method would use a better quality bag, or have a back-up bag if things went wrong.
I agree with you.
anonymess
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This link has some interesting info about suffocation with plastic bag and inhalants
http://teens.drugabuse.gov/drug-facts/inhalants
If I had a chemistry background, I definitely would have been open to exploring easily accessible chemical methods (imho). Even without a
chemistry background, I was exploring a lot of info on how to die during my depression that was a bit too complex for me!
I did some research on tox screens and inhalants:
1. "Toxicology screens may be helpful if the specific chemical involved is unknown. Specific toxicologic tests of inhalant agents are not readily available in all laboratories and may take several days to weeks to get results, so they are not helpful in the immediate diagnosis."
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1174630-workup#c8
2."Specific toxicologic analysis for inhalants typically requires a specialized reference laboratory."
http://www.inhalants.org/final_medical.htm
http://teens.drugabuse.gov/drug-facts/inhalants
If I had a chemistry background, I definitely would have been open to exploring easily accessible chemical methods (imho). Even without a
chemistry background, I was exploring a lot of info on how to die during my depression that was a bit too complex for me!
I did some research on tox screens and inhalants:
1. "Toxicology screens may be helpful if the specific chemical involved is unknown. Specific toxicologic tests of inhalant agents are not readily available in all laboratories and may take several days to weeks to get results, so they are not helpful in the immediate diagnosis."
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1174630-workup#c8
2."Specific toxicologic analysis for inhalants typically requires a specialized reference laboratory."
http://www.inhalants.org/final_medical.htm
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