Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #7

[otto]

Please explain, what are the "12:30" posts?

Someone was questioning whether there was any significance to the time that Cheryl's body was found.

 

[ANZAC]

Is it possible that someone out there maybe did think they saw a woman walking that morning and LE has just not told us? Or has LE stated that there have been no tips of that sort? I can't imagine a woman walking during the commute timeframe standing out, so maybe no one took notice. But do we know for sure that no one did?

More likely that someone saw her and didn't realize the significance and didn't report it. The public tends to not be very aware (I'm sure everyone here is....) and also reticent to call things in, at times.

 

[ANZAC]

When was animal control seen by the creek? As in, it was part of the investigation? Was LE there at the same time?

It is possible LE asked them to assist, not for something directly related to controlling animals. Our animal control in our county is dispatched by the same 911 center as LE, for example.

 

[ANZAC]

Lack of evidence pointing to a homicide now, does NOT mean, that a MOTIVE couldnt still aways appear down the road..

I am not pooh-poohing all the homicide posts, people are making good points. But some, not as much.

It reminds me of when the police have PHYSICAL EVIDENCE on a suspect, but they juuust need to FIGURE out that MOTIVE, so that jury will convict. When EVIDENCE isn't always enough....

We there's a lack of a lot of things pointing to homicide, except for theories.

No evidence linking a killer now, not 100% of evidence pointing to a suicide, indicates to me, how there still could be a MOTIVE, a strong enough MOTIVE, that required the use of NO weapons, no signs of a violent struggle, and definetly no sneezing.

How so?

I think it would be almost necessary to start jotting down things, that connect, or dont, or seem odd (doesnt have to be how I connect something)..just the small pieces that dont fit now somewhere for them, might be what people won't remember later. If you take notes of a lot of small stuff, it might lead to the bigger picture. If her family & those closest to her, strongly think she has a calculated killer, then why not jot down some calculations, as they see fit, relevant or odd to them.

Well that is what detectives do. And SAR (when we are asked)

 

[ANZAC]

The problem with raw meat being the origin of the animal blood in Cheryl's car is that animals are cleaned after the kill, and that includes removing blood. If the animal blood in her car is from an innocuous source, then that source is not cleaning raw meat properly.

Something is wrong with this picture regardless of whether you lean towards suicide or murder.

I agree. There's a big missing piece of information here.

 

[ANZAC]

We're asking a lot from Cheryl in order to believe this was suicide. We have to believe that she was mentally ill, that she plotted to conceal her intent to commit suicide by pouring animal blood in her car and planting blood (cuts to fingers), that she avoided being seen for 1.5 miles during rush hour, that she chose a polluted creek, and especially a dark culvert, to breath her last breath and see her last memory.

It's not logical, but she was an analyst - who is by nature: logical.

No one said mentally ill. Despondent, depressed, bored, ..... maybe. It doesn't have to be "clinical xxxx".

The cuts to fingers as a distraction/scene staging is NOT a big jump, I've seen far more than that.
The animal blood though, that would be a new one for me.

Walking 1.5 miles, maybe all of that was not as visible, maybe she got to the creek. People don't notice things. We've had plenty of cases where someone SHOULD have seen something and no one called it in. People get scared of being made fun of, or getting involved.

The creek isn't polluted, it might have an excess of fecal coliform but it is quite possible to have that kind of state but not to look all that bad.

The dark culvert could actually be attractive to her. Not as visible from the road, and a dark place might be attractive to slip away.

But these points could also be attractive to a killer, with the exception of the "self inflicted" cuts.

 

[Itsmevkb]

I think way back in thread one or two I posted about how I think it would be easy for people to not notice people walking on the sidewalk during their commutes. I commute to work and unless someone was doing something really unusual like walking in the street, riding their bike in a snowstorm, wearing crazy clothes, etc. I know for a fact that I wouldn't remember seeing them. Heck, I can barely remember what I ate for breakfast yesterday or if I drove up the street or down the street when I left for work so no, I don't remember if I passed someone just walking normally yesterday. I remember a guy in a white hat and bright red and white jacket but now that I think more about it, I'm not even sure I could say which morning this week I saw that guy. I remember what he was wearing because it was distinctive but nothing makes me remember which morning it was. I'm pretty much on auto-pilot on my drives to and from work.

 

[otto]

No one said mentally ill. Despondent, depressed, bored, ..... maybe. It doesn't have to be "clinical xxxx".

The cuts to fingers as a distraction/scene staging is NOT a big jump, I've seen far more than that.
The animal blood though, that would be a new one for me.

Walking 1.5 miles, maybe all of that was not as visible, maybe she got to the creek. People don't notice things. We've had plenty of cases where someone SHOULD have seen something and no one called it in. People get scared of being made fun of, or getting involved.

The creek isn't polluted, it might have an excess of fecal coliform but it is quite possible to have that kind of state but not to look all that bad.

The dark culvert could actually be attractive to her. Not as visible from the road, and a dark place might be attractive to slip away.

But these points could also be attractive to a killer, with the exception of the "self inflicted" cuts.

I believe that people who kill themselves are mentally ill.

"Approximately 90% of individuals who die by suicide have a mental illness although the role of mental illness in completed suicide varies globally. Mental illness increases the risk of suicide between 5- and 15-fold compared with the general population.
...
A high proportion (91%) of individuals had been in contact with their GP in the year prior to suicide; and 16% of individuals had been in contact with GPs in the month and week prior to suicide, respectively.
...
12% of the general and patient population travelled away from home to die by suicide"

http://bmb.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/1/101.full

 

[ANZAC]

I believe that people who kill themselves are mentally ill.

Even those with a terminal illness who would rather die on their own timeline and escape pain and suffering?

 

[otto]

"A retrospective study of cases of drowning suicide was undertaken at the Forensic Science Centre in Adelaide, South Australia for the period April 1980 to March 2000.
...
Women preferentially chose the ocean or bath to drown themselves in, whereas males chose rivers, ditches, and lakes. Swimming pools were rarely used for suicide in this population; alcohol use was not usual; and there was often a significant history of mental illness."
...
"Although the use of illicit and prescription drugs in our cases was very low, there was a significantly higher rate of use of prescription medications among those who committed suicide in the bath, as has been shown in other studies of bath suicides."

http://journals.lww.com/amjforensic...stic_Features_of_Suicidal_Drownings__A.5.aspx

 

[otto]

Even those with a terminal illness who would rather die on their own timeline and escape pain and suffering?

Euthanasia is something altogether different.

 

[otto]

If Cheryl committed suicide in a ditch without prescription drugs and with no history of mental illness, she is a complete standout in the statistics.

 

[Scentamental]

FWIW, I too remember vividly that the verified family member said it was a non domestic animal. I remember because I was upset to think it might have been the cat she just got and was waiting for word on that piece. When i saw it, i sighed a breath of relief. It must have been removed but i remember it came out just after the blood on the floorboard was revealed.

 

[ANZAC]

If Cheryl committed suicide in a ditch without prescription drugs and with no history of mental illness, she is a complete standout in the statistics.

Not here, we get many suicides with people that have no history of mental illness, no drugs. I don't know what geographic regions your statistics are for, but suicidal behavior varies a lot by location. Alaska, for example, higher frequency, and more firearm suicides.

If you came to me with a story that you were looking for a person, and we find them with no history of mental illness, and no drugs, I would say totally possible it is suicide. Jilted spouses, failed businesspeople, you name it. Plenty of non mental health reasons why people kill themselves.

 

[Yvettea]

From this source: http://myedmondsnews.com/2016/03/ml...etails-regarding-cheryl-deboer-investigation/

“We’re working with multiple agencies that are providing assistance with this,” Police Chief Greg Wilson said Tuesday.

For example, the Washington State Patrol is assisting with processing evidence through their crime lab. The Everett Police Department is analyzing DeBoer’s computer records. The U.S. Marshals office is looking at her phone data. The Snohomish County Medical Examiner, Sheriff’s Office and Prosecutor’s Office have also been involved with elements of the investigation, such as determining the cause of death, search and rescue and obtaining search warrants.

 

[otto]

Not here, we get many suicides with people that have no history of mental illness, no drugs. I don't know what geographic regions your statistics are for, but suicidal behavior varies a lot by location. Alaska, for example, higher frequency, and more firearm suicides.

If you came to me with a story that you were looking for a person, and we find them with no history of mental illness, and no drugs, I would say totally possible it is suicide. Jilted spouses, failed businesspeople, you name it. Plenty of non mental health reasons why people kill themselves.

Regarding the relationship between mental illness and suicide, I'm going to rely on the publications of experts.

 

[Beesknees]

Excuse my boldness but Cheryl DeBoer disappeared 8 February and was found 14 February. IT is now the 3rd April and I can't help thinking that the MLT police have been doing a poor and very strange job about this crime. It is unusual to see such aparrently casual behavior from the LE as IMO we have been seeing here. So...


Mountlake Terrace Police Department, are you done with your investigation related to Cheryl DeBoer's death and do you go on with your ridiculous theory of suicide or can you look at this crime properly, ask for help from the FBI if necessary and try to discover once and for all who killed this lady?


Arrrrgh!

 

[Sun009]

I agree. I was walking all around those areas and I doubt anyone (even that afternoon) would have recalled seeing me. I don't think anyone would have necessarily noticed Cheryl walking.

I am with you. I can't claim to know at all whether this was homicide or suicide. But one could also argue that no one noticed Cheryl being forced into a car. Just like if no one noticed her walking, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

This is kind of random, and it was random for me, but this is an example of why taking notice of people, can benefit for yourself. This is fairly recent, and not far from any of the missing women, same city, really. IM NOT RELATING this as being any kind of connected.

This happened not even that long ago...
I was driving home, & did happen to take notice of man standing what looked to be almost completely still on the sidewalk, on a main road. I didn't have to turn my head at him to see him. He wasn't hiding, per say, just picked it up, with front/side vision. It was late evening, it was dark. So I turn, park, go about my business, gather up my belongings, my car door wasnt even shut yet, when my dog on the leash, started lunging/barking 2 seconds after paws hit the ground, like dog saw squirrell. What did dog see? Oh just the man I saw standing still, was now a man that weirdly became closer, once I was out of a moving vehicle. Mans reaction to dog, was interesting, like he didn't expect a dog. I was an extended leash, angry/barking dog.distance away from man. What did man want? Oh he said nothing to me, almost like I was invisible. I said nothing to him, as well (I let my dog say it)..he did however talk to my dog, "heeey...doggie,"..in a calming sort of way. I said, let's go dog, & we walked up stairs, through door. Belongings from car, had barely been set down, dog wasn't off leash yet, when dog heard something, loud enough for dog to hear, to start aggressively barking, now BOTH dogs were PO'd. I had been holding a smaller dog too, but now that one was mad. So what were they barking at? Quick look trough peephole..oh just the man, I saw standing still on busy road, was the man I saw coming towards me, off a quieter turn off, not speaking any words to me, was the man that walked up stairs behind me, & sood quietly outside the door, for minutes.

I don't know what any of this was supposed to be out, if anything at all, but it was all kinds of nooe, nope & NOPE.

So, yes I called the police, because man should not be outside this door right now. That's all I know. And I'm not going to open door, & confront man, who followed me up to it. But maybe he thought I would, b/c he was out there prety much the entire time, I was on the phone with 911, and with loud barking angry dogs.

Police arrived, and man was still hanging around. They were going to be the only people, that could get him to leave. And even I knew, this man hadn't committed a crime against me, or threatened me violently...yet.

So I don't know what happened with man, but nice police man called me, and said if same man comes back, CALL POLICE back. Even if he came back and still hadn't harmed me, police don't like having to tell someone twice to leave, when they told him once before. Now he'd be irritating the police..

 

[catlike]

I wonder how many people who have committed suicide are just not diagnosed with mental illness. Mental illness has a stigma, and some choose to self-medicate through drugs or alcohol, others maintain control via an eating disorder; some just trudge through life just keeping it together until something tragic takes them over the edge.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Sun009]

I am not pooh-poohing all the homicide posts, people are making good points. But some, not as much.



We there's a lack of a lot of things pointing to homicide, except for theories.



How so?



Well that is what detectives do. And SAR (when we are asked)

I'm only pointing out how some cases could operate in reverse. That's not to the fault of anyone. If there wasn't evidence to begin with or a clear motive..then there is a good chance, an actual motive won't be discovered if everyone stopped to assume there wasn't one, when there could actually be one.