WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #1

[Niner]

I too anxiously await for Monday to roll in... :dance: Of course, I'll have to wait until Leftcoast sends me the tapes... (sending pm as we speak!)

quote Leftcoast: There is a reason why he gave the note to the flight attendant while the plane was still on the ground in Portland. It is a huge clue in this case.

and that is..... ??? LOL!! Are you going to tell us now - or after the airing... :crazy:

quote Leftcoast: I asked our suspect if he was in fact Cooper, if he would tell us. He paused, and said, ya, I guess, as long as the statue of limitations had run out. Funny answer. Personally, I would have replied. I would never, ever, think of hijacking a jet, and shame on you for implying that I am capable of such as act. makes me think he has it in him.

Oh! Boy! as Scandi said - You would have to be guilty to answer like that!! :dance: Can NOT wait for this show....

I too have to add - Leftcoast, you have done a great job on this!! :clap:

 

[Seeker]

Hello

Howdy left!

Reading what you wrote brought up some new questions for me and I hope you will take the time to help me with answers.

We made it to our suspects today

He was outside working on his plane.

We were able to talk with him in privacy.

He states that "he never called the fbi on that night". The FBI has a different story. And it will be on the show.

After pulling teeth, he admitted to the armed robbery from 1971, just months before the hijacking.

He claims, that he was drinking at a bar, and someone put "five dollars worth of acid" in his drink. Next thing he knew, he was in jail charged with armed robbery. Supposedly, the armed robbery was for a grocery store.

$5 worth of acid in 1971 would have been quite a bit! How does he know it was a nickle of acid? Or do you think he was just guessing/fabricating this?

After much deliberation, he admitted he was fired from his job in 1971 because of the armed robbery.

He admitted that a Cessna he was leasing in 1971 was in the process of being repossessed and he was being sued because of this.

He also admitted problems with the FAA during the same time period.

He also admitted to living across from the airport during 1971, on a houseboat on the Columbia river. The same Columbia river where the money was found in 1980. Coincidence?

As for the 2,500 sq. ft. building he erected in 1972 on leased land, some 100 miles from his previous residence. He said a third party loaned him the money to erect the building. He had mortgage payments.

Mortgage payments on what? The building? If someone loaned him the money does he mean they just loaned him the downpayment? I didn't think anyone could build a building on leased land without a specific special use/building permit...
What type of building was/is it?

I then asked, then when the lease expired in 1992, did you get your money back, and he said "no", because it was on leased land.

That would be true. If he was making payments on the building and defaulted on the loan he would have just lost out when he didn't renew the lease. If the building was on leased land then the owner of the land could either take over the payments for the building or the company he bought the building from could repo it.

I find this story total B.S.. Nobody will loan money to put up a building on leased land, to a convicted felon, in a business that loses money, and then not be able to sell the building if the borrower fails to pay the mortgage.

Again, if someone else paid for the building then there would be no mortgage to pay unless they only loaned him the downpayment. Unless it was mob connected, or something like that I don't think someone would loan a large amount either. Although I've known of stranger things to happen, if it was a personal friend of his who loaned him the downpayment then maybe it's true...do you think you could try to pin down who loaned him the money and if it was just the downpayment he's talking about?

But, that is his story. Remember, that building does not show up on county assessor records to this date. Who in their right mind is going to erect a $120,000 building, and twenty years later just walk away from it without any money to show for the investment. Answer: somebody trying to hide money, and can't put a building or land in their own name.

Plus if the land was Gov owned you wouldn't find anything on the county assessor's records....
I don't think it would have cost $120,000 back in 1972...maybe today it would, but not back then unless they had to put in electric, dig a well, put in septic etc. It still wouldn't have cost that much back then....
Even today you can get a steal building up in that area for the same footage for much less. Is this a steal building? What type of area is it in?

He denies being Cooper. Says his alibi is solid. This will be rebuffed on the show.

He also made other statements that are inconsistent with those of the fBI agent. So, who you going to believe, the FBI agent, or a five time convicted felon.

He never became upset with us, nor did he lose his temper. It was if he was expecting it, and had rehearsed the answers.

We couldn't break him, and I knew it was extremely unlikely he would admit it, even 35 years later.

Sorry, we tried. But, the truth is the truth.

left

I still hope you are right, but I do have a lot of questions...I don't know why, maybe on some level I really want this case to remain a mystery.

 

[leftcoast]

I too anxiously await for Monday to roll in... :dance: Of course, I'll have to wait until Leftcoast sends me the tapes... (sending pm as we speak!)

quote Leftcoast: There is a reason why he gave the note to the flight attendant while the plane was still on the ground in Portland. It is a huge clue in this case.

and that is..... ??? LOL!! Are you going to tell us now - or after the airing... :crazy:

quote Leftcoast: I asked our suspect if he was in fact Cooper, if he would tell us. He paused, and said, ya, I guess, as long as the statue of limitations had run out. Funny answer. Personally, I would have replied. I would never, ever, think of hijacking a jet, and shame on you for implying that I am capable of such as act. makes me think he has it in him.

Oh! Boy! as Scandi said - You would have to be guilty to answer like that!! :dance: Can NOT wait for this show....

I too have to add - Leftcoast, you have done a great job on this!! :clap:

thanks Niner

Cooper handing the note while the plane was on the ground is a huge clue. Some will say he was in a hurry and wanted to make certain the banks were still open (it was about 3pm). He could have easily waited five minutes until the plane took off.

the clue will be revealed Monday. Sorry, but, it will give it away. It has to do with him calling the Portland FBI office and proclaiming his innocence.

left

ps I already responded to your pm

 

[jubie]

ARGH!! I've been following this and of all the bloomin times to be going to Disneyland we leave tomorrow. I will have to wait until we get back next week to get caught up!!

Leftcoast!! Thanks for all your work, I sure hope it pays off.


Jubie

 

[leftcoast]

Seeker

Related to the acid:

I went back and listened to his response:

He states "two guys from California spiked my drink with a five dollar hit of acid. they said, hey, you just got a $5.00 hit, and I didn't know what they meant. Three days later I awoke in jail, charged with armed robbery."

that is his story. I don't know anything about acid, but, his story is total b.s. Makes me think he knows a thing or two about drugs.

The building:

He constructed a 2,500 sq ft building. It was on commercial property, but, resembles a ranch house. It has three rooms on one side, which can be either offices or bedrooms, and a huge, long open area for his business. Remember, this is on leased land. IT was, and still is zoned commercial.
It was used for his business, and sits today in horrible shape. I think he destroyed it when his lease expired.

No, the guy didn't loan him a down payment. HE said this man loaned me the money to put up the building. The land was not government owned. He gave us a name, but, I'm sure the guy is either dead or fictitious.

It didn't cost 125,000 back in 1971. I am estimating what a building like that would cost in today's dollars to erect. In 1971, I think it cost about 20,000 to 25,000 to erect. Plus, add on leasing a huge chunk of land. Quite a payment for a guy without a job.

You have to ask yourself. Why put up a building on leased land? Why lease land instead of buying? And who would loan him money for such a building? I think he was hiding money. He couldn't buy the land in his name with cash, to many clues would be had. But, leasing land, and using your own cash to erect a building would fly under the radar. Especially, if the owner of the land lives in another state. Why would she care if he improved her property?

I know you hope we are wrong. I don't know why? I realize people think it was cool to rip off 200,000 and not get caught. But, this guy did a lot of damage in 1971, and when you see the video, his crimes have cost people the ultimate.

Plus, if anyone does catch him, who better than a citizen.

left

 

[leftcoast]

ARGH!! I've been following this and of all the bloomin times to be going to Disneyland we leave tomorrow. I will have to wait until we get back next week to get caught up!!

Leftcoast!! Thanks for all your work, I sure hope it pays off.


Jubie

Thanks. Have a fun vacation.

left

 

[jubie]

Thanks. Have a fun vacation.

left

Thanks back to ya.

 

[Seeker]

Seeker

I know you hope we are wrong. I don't know why?


left

That isn't what I said.

I still hope you are right, but I do have a lot of questions...I don't know why, maybe on some level I really want this case to remain a mystery.

IOW somehow I can't believe it may actually finally be solved.

As far as it being commercial property I can understand why whoever actually owned it would rather lease it than sell it. What better way to make some decent money than to have someone pay to use your land, and improve it by putting a building up on it! Even if the building is later damaged...

Did you ever try to find out who the actual owner of the land was? Just wondering if he bought the land under some corporate name or something to hide his assets. I know trusts were a big thing back in the early 70's.

 

[leftcoast]

I do know who owned the land when he leased it back in 1971. she lived in Minnesota, and later had a huge legal fight with our suspect in 1993, which he lost, and the building was gutted. She sold the land to a third party in 1994.

There are a variety of reasons why she didn't want to sell. It could have been for tax reasons, etc. I have not talked to her for obvious reasons. We can't afford to tip anyone off, nor do I expect her to be alive.

It just seems strange that someone would apparently pay a normal cost to lease land, and then put up on a building which cost about the same price as the land. Why not just buy the land, and if not for sale, go elsewhere. the building is worthless for any other type of business, so it is rather odd.


I have never seen the papers, but, it is very possible he wanted to keep assets out of his name.

It is also possible that at the end of the lease, he could buy the property for "x" amount of dollars, but, he ended up having financial problems in the early 90's. LIke I said, it was a horrible business. He could have easily defaulted on the last few years of the lease, and lost his chance to buy the land and building at a set amount when the lease expired.

Either way, I think he was hiding assets.

Where he erected this building, land is dirt cheap, and there is plenty of it. It is miles from freeways, etc,. I think he knew what he was doing. HE wanted to get away from Portland, have this "business", and keep assets out of his name. At least for a few years.

left

Given his payments on the land lease, depreciation for the building, plus other assets needed for his business, there is no way he showed a profit on his business. Hence, the IRS states if you don't show a profit for 3 out of 5 years, your business is a hobby. I wonder if he "fudged" his tax records to give himself some income, and appear legit. Oh, what I would do to see his tax returns.

 

[leftcoast]

"

I agree about the possibility of a ground lease. But, dont' ya think he may have been trying to keep assets out of his name. Iv'e heard of 99 year leases, where one basically sells their land, but, avoids paying capital gain taxes. But, in my limited real estate knowledge, I've never heard of someone leasing land for 20 years, and erecting a building on land that is more valuable than the land. I could see it, if putting up a building replaces the need to make lease payments, but, that is not the case in this instance. I still find it extremely suspicious.

He could have bought the land for about 20,000 back in 1971. Erected the building for about 25,000. that would leave him about 150,000.

Considering he was probably in debt of 5-10,000, and spent attorney fees, buying a plane, living expenses, etc. by 1974, I'll bet he only had 50,000 left, if that. Trips, cars, etc.

just my opinion

I'm not good with numbers.

left

ps plus he bought a house in the area not too long afterwards. finding out when has been rather difficult.

 

[leftcoast]

ATTENTION:

Go to the KOIN website, and you will see a promo for this Monday's show.

It is titled "IS ONE of THE MOST NOTORIOUS THIEVES ALIVE AND WELL?"



I guess the first episode will air on the 11pm newscast.

left

 

[scandi]

LOLOLOLOLOLO Thanks so much Left! I wonder if KOIN has clued in the crime reporter for the Oregonian? I have no idea what the cable news affiliate is for CBS, but you might have a say in who picks up their broadcast on a national level.

I can just see it now, "We have just learned that two local Sleuthers from Portland Or have finalized their 7 year invesetigation into that infamous hijacking of 1971, and CBS News is now exposing the true D. B. Cooper for the criminal that he is, and how for 36 years he eluded . . . . .


YaYa Scandi

 

[leftcoast]

I like the way you think Scandi

Phil Stanford did a piece about us back in November in the Portland Tribune. One would think he will be calling again to update the story. I couldn't believe that reporters actually do interviews via the telephone. I always thought reporters drove to your house, or met at a restaurant.

I don't know who is the crime reporter for the Oregonian. I know Rolla Crick followed the story for years, but, she is long since retired. She even offered a 1,000 reward at one time.


left

 

[leftcoast]

ATTTENTION

IF you go to the KOIN website, there is a VIDEO TEASE of our story which will air next week.

Included is a picture of two handsome men (us), the reporter, and the suspect. You get a decent look at him, in front of his plane, and hangar.

You may want to view the tease. I found it interesting.

left

 

[lorann]

How exciting! I usually don't even try to watch videos as my computer is so slow - but although this loaded slowly, it was very clear. Thanks left, I hope the newspapers also pick this up, if so, please post a link.

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

 

[leftcoast]

You are welcome Lorann

While watching the video tease, the retired FBI agent who passed on our suspect states "I'll just have to deal with the fact that I am his alibi".

Kind of an interesting statement. Sounds indecisive. Interesting word, "deal".

First of all, he isn't our suspects alibi. Why? Because I asked the retired agent and he doesn't know where our suspect was between the hours of 2pm and 10pm when he phoned into FBI headquarters. His statement is that our suspect calling in at 10pm is his alibi. No joke. He further states that our suspect has "the best alibi of anyone", because he called in at 10pm.

First of all, not only is it possible, but well within reason one could jump at 8:13pm and make it to a phone in two hours. Especially a man who was ranked as one of the top 5 skydivers in the country for 10 years. The FBI doesn't even know for sure where Cooper jumped, if he had a car stashed, a walkie talkie with an accomplice waiting, etc.

The best alibi is someone who the FBI agent actually viewed in person while the hijacker was still on the plane. that is a rock solid alibi.

Remember, who is to say our suspect was even the one on the other end of the phone? How does he even know our suspect was the one who made the call? He never even checked to see where the call was made from.

The agent didn't even know our suspect lived across the street from the airport in 1971, or that he was a truck driver who was recently fired because of the armed robbery conviction. The agent thought he was running a business, and was a man of means since he had the use of an airplane. Little did he know, that cessna airplane was leased and in process of being repossessed.

He knew about the armed robbery, but, states the suspect told him he was "drunk" and that is why he committed armed robbery. Hmm.

two million dollars down the drain

left

 

[scandi]

Oh, that is sooooo exciting! When Mike Donahue is walking with him back towards that plane, it is only from the back, but just what I would him to expect he would look like now. The same countenance about him.

The photograph on the site, is that a photo of your subject when he was young? Is that you in the white shirt? LOL If so, handsome as can be!~ Mike Donahue is the perfect reporter for this job, don't you think?

I can hardly wait till 11 pm tomorrow night!~ :woohoo:
Scandi


ETA: Left, these things you point out in the previous post, are they discussed or addressed in the essay by KOIN?

 

[leftcoast]

Oh, that is sooooo exciting! When Mike Donahue is walking with him back towards that plane, it is only from the back, but just what I would him to expect he would look like now. The same countenance about him.

The photograph on the site, is that a photo of your subject when he was young? Is that you in the white shirt? LOL If so, handsome as can be!~ Mike Donahue is the perfect reporter for this job, don't you think?

I can hardly wait till 11 pm tomorrow night!~ :woohoo:
Scandi


ETA: Left, these things you point out in the previous post, are they discussed or addressed in the essay by KOIN?

Hey Scandi

I don't know if you missed it, but, the guy who is interviewed as says "I think he had it planned to the "t"", is the suspect as well.

then, there is the shot of him and Donahue from behind. That is the very spot that we have interviewed him on six different occasions. HE is always working on planes. He lives for airplanes, even though he can't legally fly them.

NOte how muscular this guy is compared to Donahue. OUr guy is at least 10 years older than Donahue, obviously a little shorter, but, very broad shoulders, which is consistent with the flight attendant's description. Compact, stocky, was how he was described.

Yes, I'm in the shot you described.

The photo on the table, one is a sketch drawn by Florence Scaffner in 1988. The other photo is a different suspect, not our suspect. We put a variety of suspects in our lineup, and showed it to Florence.

Yes, KOIN will go into everything in the three segments. Our suspect, who stated "he had everything planned to a "t"", will given his alibi.

Then, Donahue will show the video of his alibi to Himmelsbach, the fbi agent, who will state that our suspects alibi never happened.

The piece will also go into his long, criminal record, where he lived, the people who called into the fBI nominating him as Cooper, etc.

YEs, Donahue is a good reporter. HE has been very professional, and has played it straight with us.

left

Scandi: Have you been watching KOIN? They have been showing promos of our story all weekend. good news.

 

[scandi]

"Is DB Cooper alive and well in the Northwest?" What a great line, and boy, it took a long time in coming to this frruition!

So now you'll think this is a dumb question, but when the suspect states "I think he had it planned to the 'T', he is speaking of DB as though he is someone other than himself, right. In other words he thinks Cooper did a great job in planning and carrying out the hijacking, right?

What a great story! Thanks Left Scandi

 

[Niner]

thanks Niner

Cooper handing the note while the plane was on the ground is a huge clue. Some will say he was in a hurry and wanted to make certain the banks were still open (it was about 3pm). He could have easily waited five minutes until the plane took off.

the clue will be revealed Monday. Sorry, but, it will give it away. It has to do with him calling the Portland FBI office and proclaiming his innocence.

left

ps I already responded to your pm

okay that makes sense on him handing the note over before take off... good idea, I would say! LOL!

Yea... I didn't think you would reveal that... oh well!

Yes - received your pm... can hardly wait! Thanks a bunch for that!