WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #2

[leftcoast]

uhmmm....didnt COOPER have a bit of trouble with this himself, or question how to do it??

Ya, we picked up on that too. Cooper didn't know he had to put weight on the stairs to get them down. Cooper thought the latch would automatically lower the stairs. However, in flight, with the airspeed, it is necessary to stand on the stairs due to wind resistance. Also, Cooper asked the pilot to "slow down, I can't get the stairs down". they obliged.

Funny how all these little things add up.

People ask "why did Cooper want the stairs down on take off from Seattle"?

Well, I have four reasons:

But, the main reason is most likely he wasn't sure how to get the stairs down

The other reasons are

To expand the search area

To make certain the feds didnt' seal the stairs shut while on the ground in Seattle

To get a better view of landmarks as the plane headed south

YEs, lowering those stairs is the only thing that Cooper didn't have any prior experience with during his crime. And it shows.

left

 

[Old Dominion]

And people wonder why Ted never fled. He knew within two hours after the crime that he probably had gotten away with the crime.

And with just one agent on the case I don't blame him

He had no idea that 35 years later, people would still be looking for him. That is why he might have placed that money on the bank of the Columbia, hoping the fBI would think Cooper drowned, and the case would be closed.
left

Sure doesn't hurt to have friends that say things like

"It's just unreasonable to assume that anyone could have survived a
jump like that"...despite empirical evidence to the contrary :bang:

OD

 

[j2mirish]

Yes, it is FBI 101. :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:




Then, supposedly, according to Teddy, the FBI called him back 3 more times. ASking him "If a person could possibly leapt from the rear of a 727 safely. Teddy told them, if he can get the stairs down, then you bet."



left

uhmmm....didnt COOPER have a bit of trouble with this himself, or question how to do it??

Ya, we picked up on that too. Cooper didn't know he had to put weight on the stairs to get them down. Cooper thought the latch would automatically lower the stairs. However, in flight, with the airspeed, it is necessary to stand on the stairs due to wind resistance. Also, Cooper asked the pilot to "slow down, I can't get the stairs down". they obliged.

Funny how all these little things add up.

People ask "why did Cooper want the stairs down on take off from Seattle"?

Well, I have four reasons:

But, the main reason is most likely he wasn't sure how to get the stairs down

The other reasons are

To expand the search area

To make certain the feds didnt' seal the stairs shut while on the ground in Seattle

To get a better view of landmarks as the plane headed south

YEs, lowering those stairs is the only thing that Cooper didn't have any prior experience with during his crime. And it shows.

left

how do you spell guilty??? I know you guys cracked the case--I believe imo--- h-bach was a part of it.....:angel: otherwise, I am sickened by the FBI, and a case with 10 years of investigations held with him being the sole investigator -- and nothing.....with teddy in his own pocket...come on....:silenced: :silenced:

 

[leftcoast]

how do you spell guilty??? I know you guys cracked the case--I believe imo--- h-bach was a part of it.....:angel: otherwise, I am sickened by the FBI, and a case with 10 years of investigations held with him being the sole investigator -- and nothing.....with teddy in his own pocket...come on....:silenced: :silenced:

I agree it does look bad, and there is a chance.

The million dollar question.

Assuming h-bach is in on it.

Why did he meet us for lunch, 30 years after the event? and

When I brought up Ted's name, why didn't H-bach simply say, "you idiot, of course I checked out his alibi. Ted was thoroughly checked out. TEd and his girlfriend went to Denny's, and then to a movie. I checked with the Denny's waitress, his visa bill, and the movie theatre, and also with the girlfriend. In addition, the phone call was made from his house. We also checked that out. In addition, I ran his photo past Flo and she said it wasn't him"

That is my problem. Explain to me the above.

If I was in on it, that is what I would have said. I wouldn't have admitted to a couple of civilians that I never checked out his whereabouts between 2 and 10pm on 11/24

and you know what. We would have folded our hand. The current FBI isn't going to verify that information.

So, that is why I still doubt your claims. I think it is possible, but, we are talking about a respected, retired FBI agent, Not some Barney Fife police chief in a town of 3,000 people.

Not everyone works for NASA. I remember a girl in college. She had a 4.0 GPA, was a senior in Accounting, and around April 15th, I asked her, Did you do your taxes? She responded. I didn't know taxes are due April 15th. True story. lol some people are book smart, some street smart, some neither.


left

 

[leftcoast]

And with just one agent on the case I don't blame him



Sure doesn't hurt to have friends that say things like

"It's just unreasonable to assume that anyone could have survived a
jump like that"...despite empirical evidence to the contrary :bang:

OD

I agree. One agent on such a big case. Not smart.

And to have the agent in charge have zero experience skydiving. How in the world is he educated in skydiving to make such a claim. It is a very stupid claim

In the KOIN segment, the one searcher, said the jump "was a piece of cake", as did the "skydiving expert" from Mollala.

BTW Teddy told h-bach that the skydiver "was inexperienced and that it is inconceivable the skydiver could land uninjured". that was Ted in 1971, and the video on IE he states "I could have made that jump with no problem".

left

 

[Rhett]

In my opinion only, H-bach could have agreed to meet with you to see what you had figured out about the case. Maybe you had him running a little scared.

 

[Azlaw]

Where is the money that the boy found? Did he sell it? What are the odds that any of Cooper's money might be in circulation today?

Do you know what the reaction to media coverage has been in Mayfield's town?

I read a mention of Mark Fuhrman earlier. Have you contacted him?

 

[angelmom]

Hmmm...okay, now you've got me thinking H-back is not part of it. Just dumb.

But maybe he thought you could/would check those things eventually, and a lie would look worse than incompetence. B/c you can't prove that he was in on it vs. incompetence, but a lie is proof. If even one of those things was a lie, he's done.

Not sure.

 

[Old Dominion]

Hmmm...okay, now you've got me thinking H-back is not part of it. Just dumb.

But maybe he thought you could/would check those things eventually, and a lie would look worse than incompetence. B/c you can't prove that he was in on it vs. incompetence, but a lie is proof. If even one of those things was a lie, he's done.

Not sure.

Angel....:clap: . I've been trying to make this point. It's very difficult to crack the "dumb" defense. Even dumb people can use it, they just say "i don't know". Very rubbery, very teflon, very difficult to challenge. Smart people are usually better liars, another reason this would work.

OD

 

[leftcoast]

Where is the money that the boy found? Did he sell it? What are the odds that any of Cooper's money might be in circulation today?

Do you know what the reaction to media coverage has been in Mayfield's town?

I read a mention of Mark Fuhrman earlier. Have you contacted him?

Half of the money went to the insurer that paid Cooper the ransom.

Brian Ingram kept some of the money, sold a few twenties recently, and his attorney, Tosaw, got a few of them.

I don't think any of that money would be in today's circulation. The are series 1950, 1963. and 1969. The average life expectancy of a bill is about 2 years.

I do know that his local town of Mayberry, population, 5,000 was planning on running an article. don't know if they did. After the Richard Jewel case, media are very cautious about crimes and suspects.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Hmmm...okay, now you've got me thinking H-back is not part of it. Just dumb.

But maybe he thought you could/would check those things eventually, and a lie would look worse than incompetence. B/c you can't prove that he was in on it vs. incompetence, but a lie is proof. If even one of those things was a lie, he's done.

Not sure.

Why would H-bach think that 30 years later, two schmucks would solve the case. H-bach had no idea what the name of our suspect was before the lunch. During my two hour presentation, I asked h-bach a scripted list of questions, with the last question being, "do you know where Ted Mayfield was during the hours of 2-10 on 11/24/71"?

H-bach was confused. He couldn't believe that I had questioned his authority. He blurted out "no". If he was lying or hiding or whatever, all he had to say, was Ted was checked out and he is not Cooper. thanks for lunch. Period.

Anybody who thinks H-bach is in on it, I get why. but, consider the other argument, and at least consider the possibility he simply made an error. We all make errors.

Plus, don't forget. Some FBi agents thought Cooper was dead, living in Seattle, Reno, etc. So, it is not like Himmelsbach knew for certain Cooper was even from Portland.

left

 

[leftcoast]

In my opinion only, H-bach could have agreed to meet with you to see what you had figured out about the case. Maybe you had him running a little scared.

that is possible. I will tell ya that H-bach didn't know who our suspect was before our lunch, who we were, or how long we worked the case. He probably thought we were suggesting our great uncle Charlie, or some strange cousin who was never seen after 11/24/71.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Angel....:clap: . I've been trying to make this point. It's very difficult to crack the "dumb" defense. Even dumb people can use it, they just say "i don't know". Very rubbery, very teflon, very difficult to challenge. Smart people are usually better liars, another reason this would work.

OD

Call h-bach, give him the benefit of the doubt, and pick his brain. HE loves to talk about the case. then, see if he changes your mind.

There are valid arguments on both sides. We would be idiots to have not thought about these during the past 7 years. However, one needs to keep an open mind, to look for both accusatory and exculpatory evidence.

left

 

[Old Dominion]

This is interesting. Not sure if anyone has seen this.
I never heard Tina M. speak before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5wARW8FcF0

 

[leftcoast]

This is interesting. Not sure if anyone has seen this.
I never heard Tina M. speak before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5wARW8FcF0

OD

Good job finding that clip. I've never seen the entire clip, just pieces.

I wonder if that was posted by CBS related to the KOIN piece, or unrelated.

Notice how nervous SCott was, he was petrified during the hijacking.

Tina didnt' want to talk. That piece of s*** scared the living s*** out of her. Still has to this day. Did it seem to you that the hijacker was "gentle" to her?

There is actually another tape of Tina that I have. She describes the commotion. I guess Cooper kept on saying, "no funny stuff, no shooting out the tires, I don't care if I die, but I will blow up the plane"

Notice how Kurtis said the FBI thinks he could have jumped anywhere, the flatlands over Oregon and Washington, etc.

Harold Campbell, the fBi agent in the interview, actually led the search on the ground in Washington state. He ended up retiring, and died in 1988.

AS you may know, Captain Scott died in 2001

I didn't know Captain Scott was so short.

Good job O.D.

left

 

[scandi]

OMG What a small world this is! I knew Harold Campbell, that is if he lived in Lake Oswego. His daughter Ginny was my best friend up thru high school. Graduated in '62. I can see him right now, tall, not a lot of hair, skinny, a really nice guy tho even if he wasn't much to look at. LOL

I've been thinking all day Left when I was working, I think you need to send a registered letter to the head of the FBI office in Portland with an outline of info gathered during your investigation. Part 2 of that is to ask why the case was handled in such an unprofessional way, etc.

Send a copy to the Attorney Gen of the US, receipt requested.

Now I am not a lawyer, so you might have to send the original to the head of the FBI in DC with copies to the AG and Port offices. $30 could forever give testiment to what you have learned, etc.

I'd also include in each package a copy of both the KOIN 3 show tape and the IE tape, Don't give them a link, make sure they have it in hand.

Then write a damn good book. Yes, you have spent money, but it will be peanuts, And you hopefully will get to write a second book about the punishment phase of the crime. Get that man down in Seridan in the RIGHT house!

Actually, my last statement is so funny I almost can't stop laughin'. Sheridan is Mayfields current home town and also the site of the new Federal Penn in Oregon. Hopefully it was Karma working on that one, that he moved to Sheridan. They didn't even build the Fed Penn till the 80's I think. LOLOLOL


PS: Wouldn't that be something if he is convicted! Move from his home across the Hwy that goes to the beach to his new home, the Federal Penn. He would at least do intake there. There are several very famous criminals there, one so famous and rich by his writings that he gets anything he wants. His cell is lined with books, and he can buy anything he wants. Has had an order made never to be moved from that facility till he dies.

Scandi

 

[j2mirish]

Hmmm...okay, now you've got me thinking H-back is not part of it. Just dumb.

But maybe he thought you could/would check those things eventually, and a lie would look worse than incompetence. B/c you can't prove that he was in on it vs. incompetence, but a lie is proof. If even one of those things was a lie, he's done.

Not sure.

ITA this is why he didnt lie to them

 

[AlwaysShocked]

leftcoast: I agree that you have the makings for a book. Not just about your original search and research but also to include going online and joining a forum, the TV station involvement, etc.

The dbcooper case has always been of interest and there hasn't been a book published about it in a long time now.

Your story brings it up to date and also could encompass how the FBI goes about handling cases. And this surely has to be their greatest "unsolved"?

 

[j2mirish]

Why would H-bach think that 30 years later, two schmucks would solve the case. H-bach had no idea what the name of our suspect was before the lunch. During my two hour presentation, I asked h-bach a scripted list of questions, with the last question being, "do you know where Ted Mayfield was during the hours of 2-10 on 11/24/71"?

H-bach was confused. He couldn't believe that I had questioned his authority. He blurted out "no". If he was lying or hiding or whatever, all he had to say, was Ted was checked out and he is not Cooper. thanks for lunch. Period.

Anybody who thinks H-bach is in on it, I get why. but, consider the other argument, and at least consider the possibility he simply made an error. We all make errors.

Plus, don't forget. Some FBi agents thought Cooper was dead, living in Seattle, Reno, etc. So, it is not like Himmelsbach knew for certain Cooper was even from Portland.

left

yes, I agree we all make mistakes, but not bunches of them over a ten year period, and not very often, a man in his position making such BIG mistakes- I am dumbfounded he never showed pictures to the flight attendants, nor checked teddy's alibi---

 

[scandi]

ITA J2mirish, and that is why I think a formal letter needs to be sent to the FBI to demand an inquest of H-back. A lawyer would know how to do that in the correct way.