Found Deceased WA - Jenise Wright, 6, Bremerton, 2 Aug 2014 - #10 *Arrest*

[blue22]

Please understand that I am NOT defending GG in any way shape or form.

1.We have no clear indication of what medications GG has been prescribed.
2.ALL medications have side effects whether they are antidepressants, anti psychotics, or anti anxiety medications. Aspirin has side effects for some people.
3.The plethora of antipsychotic and antidepressants being prescribed today are endless and have side effects so severe (especially for teens) that some of the side effects suggest that suicidal thoughts may occur while taking these medications.

I agree that medication did not dictate that GG took the actions that he took, however, medications could certainly have caused physical, sexual, and mental side effects that MIGHT have led to the outcome that we have seen.

And get ready, because his lawyers will most likely being playing this card.

When you have a huge group of people of the same age taking the same medications and only a select few commit a certain type of crime, common sense says something else is causing this crime. Otherwise, it would not be exceedingly rare within that group.

His defense will do whatever they can to gain sympathy. It doesn't mean logical people will buy it.

 

[CrazyKat]

When you have a huge group of people of the same age taking the same medications and only a select few commit a certain type of crime, common sense says something else is causing this crime. Otherwise, it would not be exceedingly rare within that group.

His defense will do whatever they can to gain sympathy. It doesn't mean logical people will buy it.

True. And yet when you are the person that is the .01 percent that has the exceptional reactions to medications, you don't quite care about how the general population reacts because you are clearly not processing the med the same way. I have seen med changes cause kids to act bizarre. Not kill someone, but, if GG was dealing with psychological issues anyway, and he was one of those with a bad reaction, then it COULD be a deadly combination.

 

[blue22]

True. And yet when you are the person that is the .01 percent that has the exceptional reactions to medications, you don't quite care about how the general population reacts because you are clearly not processing the med the same way. I have seen med changes cause kids to act bizarre. Not kill someone, but, if GG was dealing with psychological issues anyway, and he was one of those with a bad reaction, then it COULD be a deadly combination.

I understand, but I feel it would just be impossible to link it enough for a jury here IMO. Mood disorders, hyperactivity, attention problems, impulsive behavior...has all been substantially linked with youths being more at risk to violent behavior or acting out. (Of course that does not mean if your child has ADD they are going to be violent. I am only pointing out what studies have said.) So, I don't think the defense can convincingly say the medication caused it in a way that absolves a little guilt. How could they? As much as the defense can say it was the medication, the prosecution could say it was the existing disorder that caused the need for medication. And that disorder does not make him less responsible for his actions. I am not saying that side effects could not be linked to certain behaviors. What I'm suggesting is that with the information that has been studied, I don't believe a defense can make an argument for it that a jury in this case would seriously buy into.

I am talking specifically with this case. I don't mean that the links to meds and behavior can't exist or be important.

 

[LisaB]

I lean towards one attack and think he took the clothing , knowing it had dna, and thinking he would successfully hide or destroy it.

ETA On the frustrating wait for more info. I told a member yesterday the thing that really sucks is someone, somewhere knows the answers to all these questions we have right now. Please if you're that person, join and tell us the answers.

I disagree. After molesting her, he had her put her panties and shorts back on, which is how they became soiled with her blood and his semen. He later removed them again. He was PROBABLY (JMO) carrying them with her body to the bog and dropped them along the way. A single assault would have meant her soiled panties would be on her or they would be off her and not soiled.

 

[human]

This case has been on the National News circuit. Doubtful that they won't be effected wherever they go. Moreover their SMS were shared countless times.

If I was not on here, I would have never heard about it.

I do not watch the news. It was not on any internet news site that I saw. And it was not in my local newspaper.

People are very unaware of this stuff, especially young people who are off doing all kinds of things in the summer.

i am sure any SM was from the home town and it was very unclear, unless one knew from the news back "home", what was the reference, IMHO.

 

[human]

I have heard of antidepressants causing psychotic breaks in teenagers. I remember it being said at the end of a commercial and looking at my husband and saying "I think depression is a better choice than a psychotic break."

There are many many people saying that the meds cause issues in teens. This has been said for many years.

It can be googled.

 

[blue22]

There are many many people saying that the meds cause issues in teens. This has been said for many years.

It can be googled.

And people say that Bush caused Katrina.

Google and people's unsubstantiated opinions can't explain away or absolve a person in a crime. Thank goodness. Unless a broad and unbiased study is done to show the meds can cause a break so bad, that they have no control over their faculties during a rape and murder...I don't see it mattering what people say. JMO.

 

[hambirg]

When you have a huge group of people of the same age taking the same medications and only a select few commit a certain type of crime, common sense says something else is causing this crime. Otherwise, it would not be exceedingly rare within that group.

His defense will do whatever they can to gain sympathy. It doesn't mean logical people will buy it.

Severe Side Effects of Effexor
The person who is prescribed Effexor are at an increased risk for developing increased thoughts of suicide as well as increased risk of developing complications in the person who has a pre-existing heart condition of some sort. On October 15, 2004, the FDA instructed all pharmaceutical companies that manufactured SSRI medications to add a “black box” warning to the medication packaging, stating this medication could potentially cause suicidal thoughts and actions in children and teenagers. Medication guides were to be distributed with every prescription given to patients as well. Although Effexor is not an SSRI but a SSNI, it does act as an SSRI and is included in this warning.
On June 30, 2005, the FDA released an alert for all healthcare professionals related to Effexor and other antidepressant medications, stating there is a possibility of increased suicidal ideations and attempts in adults who were prescribed antidepressant medications of any kind. In November of the same year, the FDA reported that Effexor ER has a potentially adverse effect of homicidal ideations. In December of 2006, the FDA held a hearing about the relationship of antidepressant use in people between 18 and 24 years of age and suicide. The end result of this hearing was the “black box” warning on antidepressant medications was to be extended to include increased risk of suicidal ideations and attempts in young adults between the ages of 18 and 24. This became an official warning from the FDA on May 2, 2007.

http://www.acostawilliams.com/effexor-lawsuit-information/

I can't remember where I read it, but the number was 4% suffer the side effect of violent ideation. That doesn't seem like a lot, but considering how many people are on SSRI's those effected could be in the thousands. I think that info could have came from a lawsuit filed by survivors of victims of a mass shooting. I can't remember which one it was, but I remember they sued Wyeth or maybe Glaxo Smith Kline and they won.

It's a touchy subject, but it needs to be investigated more. The problem is the funding for these types of studies come from the pharmaceutical companies. . .and that's a nearly trillion dollar business. But just Google mass shootings and antidepressents. It's hard to deny a correlation.

 

[human]

I remember when Prozac was not supposed to be prescribed to teenage boys.

I would look it up, but it seems even with studies from reputable institutions, they are pooh poohed.

So, if anyone is interested, the studies are on the net. Plenty of them from people not like me. Real doctors and scientists.

I am not affected by penicillin, so far. But lots of people are. Is there something WRONG with them and something RIGHT with me, i do not have a peanut allergy. Is there something WRONG with those people and something RIGHT with me?

 

[blue22]

http://www.acostawilliams.com/effexor-lawsuit-information/

I can't remember where I read it, but the number was 4% suffer the side effect of violent ideation. That doesn't seem like a lot, but considering how many people are on SSRI's those effected could be in the thousands. I think that info could have came from a lawsuit filed by survivors of victims of a mass shooting. I can't remember which one it was, but I remember they sued Wyeth or maybe Glaxo Smith Kline and they won.

It's a touchy subject, but it needs to be investigated more. The problem is the funding for these types of studies come from the pharmaceutical companies. . .and that's a nearly trillion dollar business. But just Google mass shootings and antidepressents. It's hard to deny a correlation.

I've never denied that these medications can have side effects. Nor have I suggested it should not be explored. I am simply saying that causation does not always imply correlation. The people in the mass shootings had a history of delusional behavior, so shootings can just as easily be connected to that. What I have been saying, is we have not information available now that can hold up in a court of law to absolve guilt in the rape and murder of a child. Because if a defense attorney says that the depression medication caused a break, the prosecutor can ask for the evidence that supports a medication can cause someone to rape and murder...and the defense will not have that to present. They can present situations, evidence or cases, that meds MAY or CAN or COULD cause side effects, but there is simply nothing to show proof that they lead to a break that causes a young man to rape and murder a little girl. That's literally all I'm saying. That there isn't enough evidence supporting that theory, to cause a jury in THIS cause to feel sympathy for him IMO. That's all.

 

[human]

I've never denied that these medications can have side effects. Nor have I suggested it should not be explored. I am simply saying that causation does not always imply correlation. The people in the mass shootings had a history of delusional behavior, so shootings can just as easily be connected to that. What I have been saying, is we have not information available now that can hold up in a court of law to absolve guilt in the rape and murder of a child. Because if a defense attorney says that the depression medication caused a break, the prosecutor can ask for the evidence that supports a medication can cause someone to rape and murder...and the defense will not have that to present. They can present situations, evidence or cases, that meds MAY or CAN or COULD cause side effects, but there is simply nothing to show proof that they lead to a break that causes a young man to rape and murder a little girl. That's literally all I'm saying. That there isn't enough evidence supporting that theory, to cause a jury in THIS cause to feel sympathy for him IMO. That's all.

What we think or say has little effect on anything.

Don't worry. The pros out there already know about all of this stuff re meds and plenty more I am sure.

He will,not be out in the world. Otherwise we would be seeing Sigg walking around someday.

I am interested in causation and remediation. Personally, I wish this was the last case that ever existed like this because we now know how to predict and intervene. If only!

Hopefully someday with more and more info re the brain and optimum parenting skills, we will move ahead as a society

 

[blue22]

What we think or say has little effect on anything.

Don't worry. The pros out there already know about all of this stuff re meds and plenty more I am sure.

He will,not be out in the world. Otherwise we would be seeing Sigg walking around someday.

I am interested in causation and remediation. Personally, I wish this was the last case that ever existed like this because we now know how to predict and intervene. If only!

Hopefully someday with more and more info re the brain and optimum parenting skills, we will move ahead as a society

I know, but it is a forum to express what we think right?

I am all for studying these things and looking for ways small and large to prevent crime. Even if they are controversial. I'm just not supportive of using it as an explanation before there is anything to prove that it's likely. Since so many people are on these meds and so few commit crimes like this, it's a little dangerous and could label people on antidepressants as likely to break and do disturbing things. As someone who took them for reasons other than mental health issues and as someone who knows awesome people who have been saved by them...the perception or stigma placed on people concerns me.

One thing that I have noticed that I'm really curious about, is that a lot of these murderer's mothers had complicated or difficult pregnancies, or they were ill a lot or had hard falls during pregnancy. Many of them did not sleep as babies. (Not that it's uncommon, lol! I mean they never slept to the extreme.) I read a bit into that with the Jessica Ridgway case. Another angle that could or should be explored, IMO.

 

[Haddie McFaddies Mom]

I don't think there is any medication in the world that would cause GG to deny the fact that if he so much as touched the little sister of a good friend, that friend wouldn't kill him. Especially one that is an athlete and a stud in his own right.

Haddie has two brothers ... they are all grown now, but respected athletes, popular and handsome. Lots of buddies knew and loved their little sister, and as pretty as Haddie was, they all knew she was more than off limits ....

Could revenge or intense jealousy have been the motivation?
GG just had to know he was crossing the line of no return.

Just my thoughts ~

 

[scorekeeper]

Graham Johnson ‏@GrahamKIRO7 32m
Custody hearing beginning in Port Orchard for three siblings of #JeniseWright. Both parents here. Children now in protective custody.

 

[SCHMAE]

 

[tier]

When you have a huge group of people of the same age taking the same medications and only a select few commit a certain type of crime, common sense says something else is causing this crime. Otherwise, it would not be exceedingly rare within that group.

His defense will do whatever they can to gain sympathy. It doesn't mean logical people will buy it.

I don't believe that is true. Ambien causes bizarre side effects for some people. But there are plenty who use it that do not have those side-effects. When my son was being seen for ADHD/ Sensory Deficit Disorder/OCD he was given anti-depressants and his psychologist told us some really bizarre stories of what happens with some teens on them (from public stripping of very self-conscious girls to rageful violence with some boys, some in fugue states until afterwards. But most only have milder side-effects.

 

[scorekeeper]

why is there no *arrest* in the heading?

tia

 

[blue22]

I don't believe that is true. Ambien causes bizarre side effects for some people. But there are plenty who use it that do not have those side-effects. When my son was being seen for ADHD/ Sensory Deficit Disorder/OCD he was given anti-depressants and his psychologist told us some really bizarre stories of what happens with some teens on them (from public stripping of very self-conscious girls to rageful violence with some boys, some in fugue states until afterwards. But most only have milder side-effects.

I'm not sure I would consider the ambien side effects "rare." In these cases, we are literally talking about a few out of hundreds of thousands to millions.

Remember, I am not saying that it's not true. I am saying that it hasn't been proven, so it would be hard for a defense to present that and not have it refuted to the ground.

 

[Amster]

View attachment 57126

Huh???

 

[tier]

I understand, but I feel it would just be impossible to link it enough for a jury here IMO. Mood disorders, hyperactivity, attention problems, impulsive behavior...has all been substantially linked with youths being more at risk to violent behavior or acting out. (Of course that does not mean if your child has ADD they are going to be violent. I am only pointing out what studies have said.) So, I don't think the defense can convincingly say the medication caused it in a way that absolves a little guilt. How could they? As much as the defense can say it was the medication, the prosecution could say it was the existing disorder that caused the need for medication. And that disorder does not make him less responsible for his actions. I am not saying that side effects could not be linked to certain behaviors. What I'm suggesting is that with the information that has been studied, I don't believe a defense can make an argument for it that a jury in this case would seriously buy into.

I am talking specifically with this case. I don't mean that the links to meds and behavior can't exist or be important.

I agree that the lawyers won't be successful with the side-effect defense. I think it has been determined that all the mass-shootings in the last 15 or so years had the offenders on anti-depressants. Whether it isn't a successful defense because that common link doesn't mean a thing or whether politics are involved, it just doesn't matter.