WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #15

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There is a sexual offender in Wa last name Self and posters had wondered if he was related to the Mr Self who lives in McCleary and he could have been visiting. It came up about the time LE wanted public info on visitors who might have come into town that Fri nite after work or on their way home.

Then learning that a W Self lives across Maple from the Mayor, I just wondered if there was a connection there. I had no idea this elderly man had been a Sheriff officer.

I wonder if 'Self' likes 'energy' drinks?

In an earlier post I revealed I had an overwhelming feeling the perp has a weird drink problem, not alcohol related ... just always seems to have an 'energy' drink in hand.
:drink:

Just curious.
 
Yes, That is why I posted it as an accusation that seemingly went no where. Still odd, eh?


Not weird if you know the parties or at least one of the parties involved...not at all an accusation of a sex offense that went no where. It was simply a threat to falsley implicate or accuse, which in itself would have been a crime....


DD
 
There is a sexual offender in Wa last name Self and posters had wondered if he was related to the Mr Self who lives in McCleary and he could have been visiting. It came up about the time LE wanted public info on visitors who might have come into town that Fri nite after work or on their way home.

Then learning that a W Self lives across Maple from the Mayor, I just wondered if there was a connection there. I had no idea this elderly man had been a Sheriff officer.

The "elderly man" is not was not a a deputy. He is however a very respected minister in the area, and I mean very respected...It was a relative that I believe was a deputy...

DD
 
I wonder if 'Self' likes 'energy' drinks?

In an earlier post I revealed I had an overwhelming feeling the perp has a weird drink problem, not alcohol related ... just always seems to have an 'energy' drink in hand.
:drink:

Just curious.

Intriguing, I am curious what leads you to this feeling. Good post above, very well could have happened that way. If you remember from the Affidavit, several witness's stated DG liked to cruise in town. Wonder if he was cruising that night or heading to a friends house. That is one thing we have never really gotten into, we know about the GF of course, but who are his friends in town? We don't have to state names, just streets.
 
Not weird if you know the parties or at least one of the parties involved...not at all an accusation of a sex offense that went no where. It was simply a threat to falsley implicate or accuse, which in itself would have been a crime....


DD

Thanks Dogdriver, sounds like small town politics? But on the flip side, just the implication could have bearing on this case, as many of the markers match M B. Can you definitely put this issue to rest? Is there a fact you can state? Not trying to put you on the hot seat, but if we can put this matter to bed so to speak and move on it saves everyone time.

And I agree about your warning to tread carefully when talking about subjects which can potentially ruin reputations.
 
Thanks Dogdriver, sounds like small town politics? But on the flip side, just the implication could have bearing on this case, as many of the markers match M B. Can you definitely put this issue to rest? Is there a fact you can state? Not trying to put you on the hot seat, but if we can put this matter to bed so to speak and move on it saves everyone time.

And I agree about your warning to tread carefully when talking about subjects which can potentially ruin reputations.


The article is at http://www.thefreelibrary.com/McClea...ue.-a065311171

notice about 2/3 of the way down it says FALSELY implicate....Just how do you think Falseley implicate has anything to do with this "case" I could FALSELY implicate anyone I want or have a beef against.....How would that have anything to do with any case? I could falsely implicate you....would that have anything to do with this case......Why not stick to facts....

Rather I think it has more to do with what this story is about....

http://www.theolympian.com/southsoun...y/1021596.html

DD
 
Thanks ... FALSE IMPLICATION
 
I have to admit this case is extremely baffling. No [reported] clues? No [reported] forensics?

Something is very wrong or at least, odd. Read this excerpt, and focus on what MB, LB's mother, is reported as having stated:



Excerpted from this link: http://www.helpfindmychild.net/lindsey-baum





My comments, questions:
  • MB waited (presumably to contact police) .... in case her daughter stopped to talk to her friend. I take that as LB was on her way home and might have stopped somewhere along the way to talk with a friend? Which friend, other than MK, lives along the path to LB's home. We'd have to know which path LB had taken to go home. Might we assume MB knows the path on which that other friend lives? Or perhaps, MB meant the friend as being MK, that LB had stopped, meaning 'paused' while leaving MK's house. Ok, I can accept that ... or maybe not. Remember, police searched a property on South 6th street, an off-beat direction towards LB's house.
  • Wasn't angry Friday night .... most likely in response to police having asked if LB was angry or otherwise had reason to want to run away or hide. But, why did MB state "Friday night"? On which nights then was LB angry, and why? MB may have been made aware of the daytime argument between LB and JB because JB might have told MB when he returned home earlier that day, but how could MB know LB was no longer angry that night, since MB had not seen LB after she had left for MK's house, before the daytime argument even occurred?
  • Left without money, a change of clothes or her cellphone .... we may safely assume MB meant LB 'left' from her own house without the above items, not from MK's. But I find this odd: if the group was going to MK's house to ask if LB could sleepover, why wouldn't LB have taken at least a single change of underwear and shirt (light, easy to carry). If permitted to sleep over, did LB expect to walk back to her house to retrieve items and then walk back to MK's? By then, it would have been dark-dark. And why didn't MB or LB or MK simply call MK's parents, when the group was still at LB's house after the swim, to ask about sleepover?
  • Lindsey wanted to have her friend over to read with them, and left while it was still light out .... we were led to believe LB was to (inquire to) sleepover at MK's that evening ... not return home to read with her mother and 'friend'. Which freind was that to be? The friend that began walking LB home from MK's, but only did so part way? Why did the friend not continue walking with LB, back to LB's house to read? What occurred on the way back to LB's that made the friend leave LB? Or, not what occurred, but who?
The last two point items are contradicting. Which was it? Sleepover at MK's house or read Harry Potter with a 'friend' at LB's house?

It might appear that MB did not know LB was to ask MK's parents if she could sleepover. MB was expecting to read Harry Potter that evening? Odd.

Of course, MB might have been referring to that LB, MK and MB were reading Harry Potter after the swim and before the group actually left for MK's house, and wanted to leave for MK's house before darkness set in. If so, then this is explained. Still, why not simply call MK's parents and ask about sleepover before the group left for MK's house .. that way, LB would know whether she should bring clothes. Odd.



Forgive me if I do not post links to back up my next comments, but I'm hoping many have already read MK's mother's and father's comments on what happened at their house that evening:

MK's father is quoted as having stated *he* told LB to start home, since it was getting late. MK's mother is also quoted as having stated the same .. except that she stated *she* told LB to start for home. Whom's covering for whom, if at all? Just odd.

That seems a minor point but yet, there is the inconsistency.

Now, LB's comment posted on MS:





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...study-intriguing-dreams-convinced-doctor.html

I believe without a doubt, that LB had premonition nightmares. I also believe her 'feeling' was genuine and convincing, at least to herself. No doubt. I wonder, did she know *when* the 'something bads [sic] gonna happen' was to occur? To who(m)? Did she walk a path to accept her 'fate'?

Someone other than LB probably knows LB's 'nightmares' details. LB posted her comment on MS ... LB's friends also had accounts on MS ... so may we assume LB's friends were aware of the comment? May we also assume LB's friend(s) would have asked LB what she meant?

If a child experiences nightmares or otherwise feels frightful of something (besides parents or other family members) do they not in fact feel more / most comfortable staying home with their parent(s)? Snuggle snuggle? If a child does not feel their parent(s) can, or will not protect them from what they fear, what can the child do? Avoid the something? If possible.

What 'something' might happen that night at the B residence that made LB want to sleepover at the K residence? Perhaps nothing. Perhaps just a sleepover, as kids are wont to do.

Or was MB to have a visitor that evening? Just thinking outside the box ....




More thoughts and questions, and some conclusions:
  • JB left with the girls to go to MK's house? Why? Not typical behavior for a boy his age to want to hang with girls their age. Two+ years apart? Why?
  • Who / where are JB's friends? At JB's age, boys hang with boys, girls hang with girls.
  • During a search for his missing sister, JB was non-chalantly walking amongst the crowd, sipping a drink. If it were my sibling gone missing I don't think I'd be so casual and thirsty as I was searching and wondering what happened. I'm not accusing nor condemning ... just pointing out what I consider an oddity. Makes me wonder about his mental state ... is he ok, in light of the situation?
  • Why was the group pushing JB's broken-chain bicycle as they walked toward MK's house? I also read they may have left the bike behind the Shell station. Forgive me if this is not established fact ... I am unable (again) to locate the site that reported those tidbits. Anyway, speculation follows: what if a perp is actually obsessed with JB, and was upset that LB may have broken JB's bike? Anger ensued? Far-fetched, but just as possible as anything else.
Somebody knows more than what has been revealed about what occurred in the weeks and days previous to, and / or on that fateful summer evening of Friday June 26, 2009.

Lindsey, what happened to you :no:


Add to that Melissa's MySpace which she posted shortly around the time Lindsey went missing. All I can tell you is that the research I have done is full of holes along with slowly learning those who apparently are good friends with MB and rather than focus on this crime prefer to defend the mother despite all of the inconsistencies in this case.
I only pray the truth does come out.

Novice Seeker
 
There are 2 small but lingering questions I've had for a while. I think I need assistance from a local person...

1) Does McCleary have video arcade machines anywhere?

(oddly enough, when I tried a google search, the first thing that came up was the TAXI service in town. Hmmm, that seemed odd, it must have been included in a multiple business directory)

2) Which PIZZA places have deliveries in McCleary on Friday nights?

(such as a Domino's or Pizza Hut from a nearby town that offers delivery to McCleary on weekends, or with multiple orders?)


...just a persistent curiosity of mine. TIA
 
MK's mother calls LB's mother to inform her LB could not sleep over that evening because MK's mother and step-father had plans the following morning.

Are you saying this happened? Kara called Melissa and told her Lindsey could not stay over? Please clarify.

Do we have anything that is written fact as to who wanted to stay over night with whom? IIRC, MK stayed with Lindsey the night before.

A possibility could be Lindsey and MK wanted a sleepover at the Baum home so they could keep reading with Melissa. They tried to call Kara to get permission, but her phone was charging - so they decided to walk over there to ask. It would make sense then that Lindsey did not have money, cell phone, change of clothes, etc. Melissa would then be expecting Lindsey and possibly MK to come back fairly quickly. Did Josh go right home after the argument and someone telling him to go home? If so, did Melissa ask why he was back, but not with Lindsey? She called police at 10:50 pm?

If Lindsey did in fact stop to talk with "her friend" on the way home from the Kampen house - Libby Nelson & daughter lived on the way if she did turn down 6th and cut across Fir (I think it is).

I hope this post makes sense, I have a terrible head cold and I am having a hard time thinking and typing at the same time. <Sigh> Just wanted to get it out there before I forgot what I was trying to say.
 
MK's mother calls LB's mother to inform her LB could not sleep over that evening because MK's mother and step-father had plans the following morning.

I don't recall KK calling MB b/c according to MK her cell phone was on the charger b/c there was only 1 bar left. MK laters says that may be the reason MB couldn't get a hold of her sooner.

This doesn't much up to Lindsey telling MB that she was going to spend the night with MK and Melissa was under the impression Lindsey would be gone for the rest of the night.

Novice Seeker
 
Are you saying this happened? Kara called Melissa and told her Lindsey could not stay over? Please clarify.

Do we have anything that is written fact as to who wanted to stay over night with whom? IIRC, MK stayed with Lindsey the night before.

A possibility could be Lindsey and MK wanted a sleepover at the Baum home so they could keep reading with Melissa. They tried to call Kara to get permission, but her phone was charging - so they decided to walk over there to ask. It would make sense then that Lindsey did not have money, cell phone, change of clothes, etc. Melissa would then be expecting Lindsey and possibly MK to come back fairly quickly. Did Josh go right home after the argument and someone telling him to go home? If so, did Melissa ask why he was back, but not with Lindsey? She called police at 10:50 pm?

If Lindsey did in fact stop to talk with "her friend" on the way home from the Kampen house - Libby Nelson & daughter lived on the way if she did turn down 6th and cut across Fir (I think it is).

I hope this post makes sense, I have a terrible head cold and I am having a hard time thinking and typing at the same time. <Sigh> Just wanted to get it out there before I forgot what I was trying to say.


Oh, wait IIRC MK had spent the night before with LB and thus the big story of al the stuff MK had to pack for a simple sleep over. So, the plan was for LB to spend the night with MK until KK told her no but still can't figure the bathing suit issue out unless LB had intended to spend the night with MK and return for more swimming?

Novice Seeker
 
There are 2 small but lingering questions I've had for a while. I think I need assistance from a local person...

1) Does McCleary have video arcade machines anywhere?

(oddly enough, when I tried a google search, the first thing that came up was the TAXI service in town. Hmmm, that seemed odd, it must have been included in a multiple business directory)

2) Which PIZZA places have deliveries in McCleary on Friday nights?

(such as a Domino's or Pizza Hut from a nearby town that offers delivery to McCleary on weekends, or with multiple orders?)


...just a persistent curiosity of mine. TIA

1-I have no idea, sorry.
2-Paradise Pizza, 119 S 3rd Street, Mccleary-I called and he said they do deliver on Fridays but it would depend on how busy they are.
 
Are you saying this happened? Kara called Melissa and told her Lindsey could not stay over? Please clarify.

Do we have anything that is written fact as to who wanted to stay over night with whom? IIRC, MK stayed with Lindsey the night before.

A possibility could be Lindsey and MK wanted a sleepover at the Baum home so they could keep reading with Melissa. They tried to call Kara to get permission, but her phone was charging - so they decided to walk over there to ask. It would make sense then that Lindsey did not have money, cell phone, change of clothes, etc. Melissa would then be expecting Lindsey and possibly MK to come back fairly quickly. Did Josh go right home after the argument and someone telling him to go home? If so, did Melissa ask why he was back, but not with Lindsey? She called police at 10:50 pm?

If Lindsey did in fact stop to talk with "her friend" on the way home from the Kampen house - Libby Nelson & daughter lived on the way if she did turn down 6th and cut across Fir (I think it is).

I hope this post makes sense, I have a terrible head cold and I am having a hard time thinking and typing at the same time. <Sigh> Just wanted to get it out there before I forgot what I was trying to say.

Hi Jules, I'm sorry you're down with a cold. Go cuddle up in a comforter and keep sipping on hot tea w/ lemon :blowkiss:


I think part of the problem in knowing just went on and filling in the little gaps is it is heresay and not necessarily fact. I don't think Lindsey's mom really said that much but it has been incorperated here. We could make quite a list of what Kara said. Some of it is printed in article comments, most isn't that I've read. And then her stories changed. So do you believe it all or in part?

For the most part I think what she said happened that way. It's too bad she didn't join here so she could have told us herself. xox
 
I had intened to not post additional commentary after having read a most recent news article regarding this case, as LE is quoted in the article as statingt they wish the amateur sleuths would 'tone that down' and how they (we?) were accusing people that had 'nothing to do with anything'. I thought about that and agree with it, but since this idea is sitting in my amateur brain, I just feel compelled to post it so, without naming names ... here goes:

Previously, I posted that LB might have seen the loud white car crossing Maple as she was walking toward her house and that LB decides to alter her route home to avoid the white car, so backtracks a bit and travels south on 6th, and then:

LB happens across the path of some other roaming individual out looking for trouble on a Friday evening. The perp just happens to intercept a disappointed young girl who, along with her best friend was not invited to a slumber party at a swim companion friends house earlier that day, is not permitted to have a sleepover at her best friend's house nor at her own house that evening, and not only has to walk home alone after sunset but is afraid of the loud white car in the area between her and her house.

The roaming individual pulls up, alongside LB on 6th ....

"Why are you crying? What happened? ...... Get in, I'll drive you home."

Why would she trust that particular roaming individual? Perhaps LB thought the loud white car was her 'something bads gonna happen' moment ... and this friendly smiling face in a rescue car arrived just in time to protect her and drive her home.

I think there is a more plausible scenario ....

There was no 'other roaming individual' that happened upon LB ... maybe LB does see the loud white car and wants to avoid it ... but she knocks on someone's door to ask them to call her mom to pick her up, or LB asks the homeowner to let her stay a bit to allow enough time for the loud white car to 'go away' .... but then the homeowner has an idea of their own ...

Who was home alone in the last sighting area (on Maple or a side street, between 7th and 3rd?) that evening?

That scenario seems most plausible to me, given the fact we know LE searched on south 6th multiple times, including 6 times on at least one property.

Just as Jessica Lundsford was eventually located within being a few hundred feet from her own house, so might be LB.
 

(comment on the Olympian Article)
________________________

mommajl wrote on 11/01/2009 07:04:40 AM:

The Mom sure seems to thrive on all the attention, doesn't she? Never gives up the opportunity for an interview, and looks so calm for someone with a missing child....but then, I don't respect a parent that lets their kids wander around town all day and night by themselves....very sorry for the girl, hope she is safe, but no sympathy for such a lousy mother. I raised two kids by myself in this town, and when they were done playing at friends' houses, I would get off my butt and pick them up...not make them walk home alone! This article is ridiculous - McCleary hasn't changed since she disappeared, it's exactly the same, I've been here over 20 years. Crime can touch any City, no matter the size - watch your babies, and they stay safe. Enough said.
_____________________________

Lindsey is the one who is at a loss here. ^

This attitude (& opinion) seemed somewhat evident early on after getting a feel of the locals.

What is the likelyhood this person has shown up to help? Zero.

What type of coward leaves comments like this?

"McCleary hasn't changed since she disappeared, it's exactly the same"

.. & they have learned nothing ...

-
 

(comment on the Olympian Article)
________________________

mommajl wrote on 11/01/2009 07:04:40 AM:

The Mom sure seems to thrive on all the attention, doesn't she? Never gives up the opportunity for an interview, and looks so calm for someone with a missing child....but then, I don't respect a parent that lets their kids wander around town all day and night by themselves....very sorry for the girl, hope she is safe, but no sympathy for such a lousy mother. I raised two kids by myself in this town, and when they were done playing at friends' houses, I would get off my butt and pick them up...not make them walk home alone! This article is ridiculous - McCleary hasn't changed since she disappeared, it's exactly the same, I've been here over 20 years. Crime can touch any City, no matter the size - watch your babies, and they stay safe. Enough said.
_____________________________

Lindsey is the one who is at a loss here. ^

This attitude (& opinion) seemed somewhat evident early on after getting a feel of the locals.

What is the likelyhood this person has shown up to help? Zero.

What type of coward leaves comments like this?

"McCleary hasn't changed since she disappeared, it's exactly the same"

.. & they have learned nothing ...

-

I was reading that earlier and thought - this is exactly the type of attitude that there is no room for. So many judges - mostly those who are grossly misinformed or care not as to whether or not they speak the truth.

I would be willing to bet money this individual has done absolutely nothing to help spread the word about Lindsey's disappearance or to help bring her home or dig up information - I guess we should be thankful that someone as ignorant and cold as this has not shown up at the center. - So far I believe we've been extremely lucky to get individuals who sincerely care about Lindsey being brought home and who want to help in any way they can.
 
The request by LE is almost laughable. What have they discovered, investigated or formed a theory as to what happened? Oh, I get it, it's our fault they can't do their job. If we hadn't stuck our minds into this case would half of what we know about this community and it's potential connection to Lindsey disappearing have been made public? Would we have been given the information about the issues amongst the town council? Would we have been informed of the registered and not registered sex offenders who live in that area who could have taken Lindsey?

What the 3 man LE agency could help us understand is why they haven't turned the lead investigation of this crime over to a federal agency who has no conflict of interest with family and friend associations, have more latitude to investigate with the proper equipment, experience and the capability to find Lindsey?

As for Melissa, throw all the tomatoes you want, but she has failed both times, to provide Lindsey the proper parental support for Lindsey's well being and safe nor has she behaved as most parents whose child has went missing do. Was TES called? Did she reach out to other rescue groups during those first days in help to find Lindsey? NO. Even Melissa's accounts of what took place contains inconsistencies and additional questions that need to be addressed. For those who claim to have developed close relationships with Melissa, perhaps you can help in removing all the controversy. Who knows, maybe it could help all those who go there to search for Lindsey, find her.

Novice Seeker
 
Did she reach out to other rescue groups during those first days in help to find Lindsey? NO.


This particular question was just recently addressed (again)

- I put TES into the search function of the website.

Melissa's accounts of what took place contains inconsistencies and additional questions that need to be addressed.

General statements like this serve no (decent) purpose. Presented in this leading fashion leaves one thing clear, this is more about your opinion.

- Which is fine.

If you have what amounts to an accusation please provide (cite) specifics of how you have reached such conclusion.

-
 
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