WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #17

[NightFire]

NightFire, So glad you joined! Darlin Gal's stats are alarming. The internet makes our world seem so small that we are now able to see the epedimic rampant throughout the world pertaining to predators of the weak and vulnerable. Being new to the forum I have to ask what about Lindsey's story brought you straight away to feeling/thinking someone close to Lindsey facilitated in helping with her disappearence? So many of us have spent hours researching so many different angles in Lindsey's story of vanishing that it would be nice to hear from someone with a new set of eyes on Lindsey threads.. Thanks ahead, and your country is beautiful as well as some of your scottsmen! LOL!

Hi!

Thanks for the welcome! Most of my opinion is based on instinct to be honest, little but gut feeling. But, I'll explain a few of the points that lead me to where I am. (Again - I typed a whole huge response and my PC froze as I hit Submit!!!).

I apologise in advance if I have my facts mixed up here, I have read through all the posts but only once, and some things may already have been accounted for.

The first thing I find strange is how bizarrely calm Lindseys Ma has been. I can't help but feel that if that were one of my daughters (I have 3 little ladies aged 6 and under) I would be utterly frantic. I understand completely that people deal with things in different ways, it just really struck me - something in her, or her lack of outward response. I'm not for a minute saying she knows where her daughter is, simply that I think she knows it is a very real possibilty Lindsey would run away. I think if she genuinely believed she had been abducted, she would be a lot less composed. Especially in the early days.

The other thing is the situation with her brother. A lot of what I have read leads me to believe that they had a lot of very deep seated issues, far beyond normal sibling issues. I had a lot of problems with my older brother as a young child, he teased me and would physically hit me (hard!) on a daily basis - mostly on my back where no one would see. I can honestly say a Big brother like that is enough to make anyone want to get the hell out. Thankfully I have a good relationship with my brother now, but that's not to say Lindsey would be the same. Of course I don't know if he was hurting her, I am only speculating at a reason for her to leave. I also saw somewhere she had said she was glad her brother was going to Juvie just before she vanished, Yet I remember also reading he was not in fact going to juvie, So perhaps she wanted him (or expected him) to be accused of being involved in her disappearance?

Next thing is the dogs. It completely baffles me that dogs could not find her scent (or track it). I read a very interesting (yet sad) story just recently about how a dog tracked a little girl who had gone missing. The dog tracked her for miles and miles, even though she had been taken along the freeway in a car. Eventually he found her body. The story is here: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/mur_alie_berrelez.htm I'm sorry if links are not allowed, or if it doesn't work. Curse of the newbie! It just explains how fantastic and efficient dogs are at tracking people. So, I think she was either not at the firends house, or she was and she either didn't leave, or left a very odd way.... That could go so many ways. So, like I said before - maybe someone helped her that night after she was told to leave (but desperately didn't want to - imagine her disappointment, she's 10 hoping to stay the night at a friends house and is told no - to go home to who knows what) maybe it pushed her too far. I can't honestly see her staying away this long if she was on her own in this.

So, most of my points are really only my gut feeling which I know doesn't count for much. The short time she was on her own also makes it difficult to believe someone could have taken her, a 10 year old girl can put up a fair fight - it wouldn't have happened instantly and it's odd no one saw or heard a single thing.

Sorry that's really long and doesn't have much factual input - It's really just based on what I have read in other places.

 

[NightFire]

I so agree SS, and with the 12th holding many important events {like the starting of the Olympics for instance} this early morning event with 3 separate players in our case is right up there.

Nightfire, I WELCOME you to WS and also share your passion for the Madeleine McCann case which I studied in great depth. :banghead: God Bless both Lindsey and Madeleine, two spirited and spritely young girls who should be with us today.

And Karen, What about those handsome Scandahoovians? :crazy: , although I do love the excitement a Scotsman's wardrobe brings to mind.

:woohoo::slap:

The scotsmans wardrobe is really rather dull sadly. I imagine life would be far more exciting if men wore kilts every day, rather than just at weddings! :woohoo::angel:

 

[kageykaren]

I so agree SS, and with the 12th holding many important events {like the starting of the Olympics for instance} this early morning event with 3 separate players in our case is right up there.

Nightfire, I WELCOME you to WS and also share your passion for the Madeleine McCann case which I studied in great depth. :banghead: God Bless both Lindsey and Madeleine, two spirited and spritely young girls who should be with us today.

And Karen, What about those handsome Scandahoovians? :crazy: , although I do love the excitement a Scotsman's wardrobe brings to mind.

:woohoo::slap:

Scandi, You naughty girl! I bet you like manly skirts! o/t I was once waiting to try clothes on and just as the gentleman in a quilt walked out of the changing room this naughty spencer gift gadget I took away from my son went off loudly saying, "Puck You" over and over. All I could do was stair at my friend as I'm tying to shut it off all the while the man with hair to his waiste giving me daggers! I had the giggles so bad I about peed my pants.

On topic thank you for your ideas NightFire. You brought some fresh air so badly needed on the threads. Like a spark to get are sluething engines going! LOL! Many feel as I'm sure read exactly like you. So many similar gut feelings throughout the internet concerning Lindsey certainly must mean something. Once again, glad your here! I guess all we female members should call ourselves :rose:Loving Ladies for Lindsey:rose:

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Who could have known / who was made aware LB was to be alone that evening? Given what we (think we) know, it was spur-of-the-moment circumstances that led to LB walking home alone:

1. JB was sent home before LB and MK asked about sleep over
2. MK was not permitted to return with LB to the B house

Who knew LB was definitely walking alone:

1. KK
2. SW
3. MK
4. MK Siblings (if present)
5. Eyewitness(es)

When did they know LB would definitely be alone:

1. KK - 1st to know - when Lindsey is still in the K house
2. SW - 1st to know - when Lindsey is still in the K house
3. MK - 2nd to know - when Lindsey is still in the K house
4. MK Siblings - assume same as MK?
5. LB - 2nd to know - when Lindsey is still in the K house
6. Eyewitness(es) - 3rd to know - after Lindsey leaves K house
7. Perp - presumably 4th to know - after Eyewitness(es) spots Lindsey

We are informed by KK she did not contact MB because KK's (cell?) phone was not working or 'not charged'.

LB did not bring her cell phone on the trip to the K house because it was 'not charged'.

Any time I've seen KK on video I witness a deep concern, a masked panic. I do not witness that while viewing MB on video.

I'm sure both might have let it pour out during local gatherings and such. Many of us not in McCleary are not privy to experiencing outbursts of emotion from either.

As our new Scottish (Hey! Mukker!) friend indicates, MB seems to appear somewhat calm, even during early video. Our friend also indicates anyone can be unique in how they express extreme emtions. All true.

What has not been recently mentioned are postings from a 'family friend' who claims to have helped LB in some fashion regarding a hurtful family situation and 911.

All of that could be considered as circumstantial stew that fuels the possibilty of LB being a runaway/help-away.

Mon :twocents:.

 

[SerendipitySeeker]

I guess all we female members should call ourselves :rose:Loving Ladies for Lindsey:rose:[/QUOTE]


Sounds like a great name, but what about us men ? :innocent:

 

[concentric]

If the FBI is investigating, wouldn't they have scrutinized all acquaintances by now?

 

[concentric]

ChuckMaureen:
Are you in agreement that someone got her almost immediately after she left that house?

Someone from that home could have followed her and gotten her into a car, saying something to the effect of "I knew you were walking home alone, and wanted to give you a ride."

 

[ChuckMaureen]

ChuckMaureen:
Are you in agreement that someone got her almost immediately after she left that house?

Someone from that home could have followed her and gotten her into a car, saying something to the effect of "I knew you were walking home alone, and wanted to give you a ride."

Remember, there was MK and siblings in the K house in addition to KK and SW and at least one eyewitness (not from the K house) reporting seeing LB between 6th and 5th on Maple. If someone had left the house immediately after LB left I should expect at least one child in the house would have mentioned that during an LE interview. I don't expect the kids are involved in any conspiracy.

So, immediately? No. It had to occur closer to or on Mommsen. Whether if LB was abducted or if LB conspired with a friend to help her 'disappear' herself, I believe it did not occur close to the K house.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

If the FBI is investigating, wouldn't they have scrutinized all acquaintances by now?

The recent presser revealed a renewed approach involving the FBI's CARD team so I suspect previous 'scrutinizing' is not trusted, incomplete or is tactically being repeated.

 

[CorallaroC]

Warm welcome NightFire. Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful posts. The points you make are very valid, IMO.

 

[concentric]

The recent presser revealed a renewed approach involving the FBI's CARD team so I suspect previous 'scrutinizing' is not trusted, incomplete or is tactically being repeated.

About how long does it take to rescrutinize? I know, as long as it takes to figure it out. Seriously.

 

[concentric]

If Lindsey conspired to disappear, is that why she left her cell phone at home?

 

[kageykaren]

:slap:quote=SerendipitySeeker;4800691]I guess all we female members should call ourselves :rose:Loving Ladies for Lindsey:rose:[/quote]


Sounds like a great name, but what about us men ? :innocent:[/quote]

I tend to forget that males are just as active in looking for Lindsey too! LOL! CNN ticker reported that women say 1500 words a day compared to males who say about 700/800 words a day. I just figured at this late date in finding Lindsey's truth we were all women getting our words out to keep the theads active for Lindsey. :doh: That will teach me to not assume! I'm the *advertiser censored*! ther_beatingA_Dead :laughitup:

Here we go, "GentleMen Looking for Lindsey" :highfive:

 

[concentric]

There you go. But if I read in an article where a person says "gentleman" when referring to a criminal, I will scream again, because it keeps happening.

 

[scandi]

Who could have known / who was made aware LB was to be alone that evening? Given what we (think we) know, it was spur-of-the-moment circumstances that led to LB walking home alone:

1. JB was sent home before LB and MK asked about sleep over
2. MK was not permitted to return with LB to the B house

Who knew LB was definitely walking alone:

1. KK
2. SW
3. MK
4. MK Siblings (if present)
5. Eyewitness(es)

When did they know LB would definitely be alone:

1. KK - 1st to know - when Lindsey is still in the K house
2. SW - 1st to know - when Lindsey is still in the K house
3. MK - 2nd to know - when Lindsey is still in the K house
4. MK Siblings - assume same as MK?
5. LB - 2nd to know - when Lindsey is still in the K house
6. Eyewitness(es) - 3rd to know - after Lindsey leaves K house
7. Perp - presumably 4th to know - after Eyewitness(es) spots Lindsey

We are informed by KK she did not contact MB because KK's (cell?) phone was not working or 'not charged'.

LB did not bring her cell phone on the trip to the K house because it was 'not charged'.

Any time I've seen KK on video I witness a deep concern, a masked panic. I do not witness that while viewing MB on video.

I'm sure both might have let it pour out during local gatherings and such. Many of us not in McCleary are not privy to experiencing outbursts of emotion from either.

As our new Scottish (Hey! Mukker!) friend indicates, MB seems to appear somewhat calm, even during early video. Our friend also indicates anyone can be unique in how they express extreme emtions. All true.

What has not been recently mentioned are postings from a 'family friend' who claims to have helped LB in some fashion regarding a hurtful family situation and 911.

All of that could be considered as circumstantial stew that fuels the possibilty of LB being a runaway/help-away.

Mon :twocents:.

Hi Chuck, There is another interesting note after reading your post . The witness Rena, standing in Mary's yard {I believe about 3 houses down and on the other side of Maple from Kara's}, when flagged by Lindsey to please send JB home, she did and then texted MB about what she had done.

At that time MB would have known there was a problem brewing. KK has put this info out about the texting, it is not confirmed my MB yet that I have heard. Realizing that Lindsey was set to spend the night at her house that night, and by curfew she wasn't back home and added to the info L and J had been fighting and he was sent back home ~ makes one wonder why there was such a time delay in going out to look for her.

It's hindsight and probably by the time they started to look, Lindsey was already in the situation where she ended up. If they had started looking 45 min earlier they'd probably still not have found her. But then I think she either got into or was put in a car and was out of McCleary within minutes.


ETA: Chuck, I forgot to add that M LaChester, the family friend you mentioned, seems to be a friend of Lindsey's but not a true friend of the family. I've read more negative thoughts in that direction than positive and also that what she said in those Comments was exaggerated. I don't know, but you'd think if she wrote untruths she would have been called on it with a correction made, right?

 

[kageykaren]

There you go. But if I read in an article where a person says "gentleman" when referring to a criminal, I will scream again, because it keeps happening.

:steamed: Yes, yes, yes! I agree! I take the word "Gentleman" very seriously too! I see and hear the term used like it is just another way to say "Guy" or refer to a male. "Gentlemen" means just those words and shouldn't be tarnished or used in a common manner. I'm relieved to hear someone is as passionate as I am about the meaning. :highfive: :flashbak: While raising sons I would refer to the word as if it were two. (Sublimial messaging while parenting:blushing

I guess we can now say when posting, "Ladies and Gentlemen" :Banane48:
:ashamed::gavel:fftopic::grouphug:

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Hi Chuck, There is another interesting note after reading your post . The witness Rena, standing in Mary's yard {I believe about 3 houses down and on the other side of Maple from Kara's}, when flagged by Lindsey to please send JB home, she did and then texted MB about what she had done.

At that time MB would have known there was a problem brewing. KK has put this info out about the texting, it is not confirmed my MB yet that I have heard. Realizing that Lindsey was set to spend the night at her house that night, and by curfew she wasn't back home and added to the info L and J had been fighting and he was sent back home ~ makes one wonder why there was such a time delay in going out to look for her.

It's hindsight and probably by the time they started to look, Lindsey was already in the situation where she ended up. If they had started looking 45 min earlier they'd probably still not have found her. But then I think she either got into or was put in a car and was out of McCleary within minutes.

Hi scandi,

Repetition and complacency can be dangerous. Nothing 'unusual' or traumatic occuring for almost forever, and then: *a disappearance*.

MB not searching sooner simply might indicate a particular complacency she held toward LB's habits, i.e.: 'what's that girl up to now!'.

 

[scandi]

Hi scandi,

Repetition and complacency can be dangerous. Nothing 'unusual' or traumatic occuring for almost forever, and then: *a disappearance*.

MB not searching sooner simply might indicate a particular complacency she held toward LB's habits, i.e.: 'what's that girl up to now!'.

I agree with you Chuck but it is always difficult to look back and say, " . . now if I'd done this" when all along the deed might have been done, minutes turning into seconds for the speed with which she might have been secreted away. xox

 

[carbuff]

If Lindsey conspired to disappear, is that why she left her cell phone at home?

That would make sense. I definitely think she didn't want to be found for at least a few hours and probably overnight. Until the bad thing was over, maybe? Or because she was meeting, or hoping to meet, a boy. Or maybe just the thrill of giving her mother the slip and staying out past curfew.

 

[SerendipitySeeker]

:slap:quote=SerendipitySeeker;4800691]I guess all we female members should call ourselves :rose:Loving Ladies for Lindsey:rose:

Sounds like a great name, but what about us men ? :innocent:[/quote]

I tend to forget that males are just as active in looking for Lindsey too! LOL! CNN ticker reported that women say 1500 words a day compared to males who say about 700/800 words a day. I just figured at this late date in finding Lindsey's truth we were all women getting our words out to keep the theads active for Lindsey. :doh: That will teach me to not assume! I'm the *advertiser censored*! ther_beatingA_Dead :laughitup:

Here we go, "GentleMen Looking for Lindsey" :highfive:[/QUOTE]

Sorry about the unisex avatar and name.....I try to say things in half the word's... so I guess CNN is right....