WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #17

[concentric]

And, you know, how many times have you heard of SO's working for/with someone who a) didn't care b) didn't care to know, anyway. Often they work at places where no one would even check.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

IIRC, there was a stand or trailer there for the fireworks at that point...I think it's in some of the first news reports from the day after she went missing...

Does any know:

... if LE followed up with the 'fireworks' peeps?
... do they live in McCleary or are they out-of-towners?
... when the stand closed for business on 06/26/2009?

Also (I might have missed answers to the following):

Why was JB's bike not retrieved the evening of the 06/26/2009 when they were searching for LB?

Was JB's bike intact when it was eventually retrieved from the Shell station area?

I think I saw the bike in question in front of MB's house while watching the Thanksgiving interview video. I think the front wheel was separated from the frame. Was that a recent condition or was that the condition of the bike when it was initially retrieved after 06/26/2009?

Could we expect a neighbor would have returned the bike to the B house if they happened upon it that evening if they did not see JB or LB in the vicinity?

In which direction (on Maple <W-E> or on a N/S street?) was the witness ("between 6th and 5th") driving when she passed by LB? I believe this was WEST -> EAST and was the same person whom sent JB on his way?

Did the witness see anyone else on the road that evening? How far is the drive to work? When did that person arrive to work? (trying to isolate time-lines).

Was DG's 'loud, white' car impounded / searched / dusted / Luminol'd under any of the search warrants?

Did MB, KK and / or MM enter LN's house that evening or was it strictly an outside encounter?

Which presumptions by family and LE might have delayed them from persuing the actual route LB took that evening? Mullin's creek ditch was searched 6 times. Certainly they did not expect to find LB there after the 1st search, so what was LE expecting to find and what made them expect to find it?

 

[SerendipitySeeker]

Business License

Fee:
$50 annually Print your annual Business License:
Download the Business License Application (PDF, 181 KB).

Print it.

Fill it out.

Mail or drop it by city hall with the appropriate fee:
Questions?: Contact Debbie Wisdom, Deputy Clerk.
(360) 249-3021, Ext. 101, or email dwisdom@montesano.us.


State RCW below.

Fireworks Sales and Discharge Laws &#8211; RCW 70.77.395
Dates and times common fireworks may be sold or discharged in areas with no ban or restrictions.
June 28th Between 12:00 noon and 11:00 p.m.
June 29th through July 3rd Between 9:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m.
July 4th Between 9:00 a.m. and 12:00 midnight.
July 5th Between 9:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m.
Dec. 31st Between 6:00 p.m. and 1:00 a.m.




This is the only fireworks supplier listed locally.

Ka Bang Fireworks
7010 Lillooet Loop, Aberdeen, WA
(360) 790-3883&#8206;

Category: Fireworks (whls)

Grays Harbor County Assessor's Office
Online Parcel Database
Assessment Information


Show Map
Parcel 728500001700
Try our new
GeoData Mapping
Tool Situs Address 07010 LILLOOET LOOP CENT
Legal Description DEER PARK 1ST TR 17

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Owner HAUSE MELONEY File Updated 1/5/2010 02:05
Address PO BOX 12651 Location T 17 R 08 Sec 09
OLYMPIA, WA 98508
Date Of Sale Excise No Price Instr. Type
5/7/2004 E167217 $0.00 QD 01
6/5/2009 E196115 $0.00 QD 01







Below is City of McCleary fees for many things, including Fireworks stands. Montesano is the County Seat, so they may do the same permit also?

RESOLUTION -A- 1 06/24/07 RESOLUTION NO. 539 A RESOLUTION RELATING ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
McCLEARY, WASHINGTON 98557 reimburses the City, and thus its citizens, .... Fireworks Stand. $ 79.00. 7. Under/Above Ground Storage Tank. $210.00 ...
www.cityofmccleary.com/.../{2D1581CF-03E5-442B-92C1-E8866B83D73F}.PDF -

 

[JenniferO]

Just wanted to let everyone know... Oprah's show called MB today and they are re-airing the show that had Lindsey on it tomorrow (January 5)

check your local listings for time and channel

 

[breanna]

Does any know:

... if LE followed up with the 'fireworks' peeps? Don't know
... do they live in McCleary or are they out-of-towners? Don't know
... when the stand closed for business on 06/26/2009? I don&#8217;t believe fireworks stand was open on 6/26 just there to prepare for the 4th &#8211; I believe they opened up on the 28th or 29th to start selling.


Also (I might have missed answers to the following):

Why was JB's bike not retrieved the evening of the 06/26/2009 when they were searching for LB? There was no reason to pick up the bike it did not work &#8211; had no chain. It stayed where it was left for more than a week though location was noted and confirmed.

Was JB's bike intact when it was eventually retrieved from the Shell station area? It was in the same condition as it was left in. No chain but otherwise intact.

I think I saw the bike in question in front of MB's house while watching the Thanksgiving interview video. I think the front wheel was separated from the frame. Was that a recent condition or was that the condition of the bike when it was initially retrieved after 06/26/2009? That was not the same bike. That was the bike his dad got him around July.

Could we expect a neighbor would have returned the bike to the B house if they happened upon it that evening if they did not see JB or LB in the vicinity? No. The bike had not been ridden in several months so highly unlikely it would have been recognized.

In which direction (on Maple <W-E> or on a N/S street?) was the witness ("between 6th and 5th") driving when she passed by LB? I believe this was WEST -> EAST and was the same person whom sent JB on his way? This information was never released to our knowledge. Don&#8217;t believe it was the same person.

Did the witness see anyone else on the road that evening? How far is the drive to work? When did that person arrive to work? (trying to isolate time-lines). This information was never released to our knowledge.

Was DG's 'loud, white' car impounded / searched / dusted / Luminol'd under any of the search warrants? It was taken in briefly only LE or the Golders would be able to confirm the rest.

Did MB, KK and / or MM enter LN's house that evening or was it strictly an outside encounter?
No and for the record MM was never there that evening.

Which presumptions by family and LE might have delayed them from persuing the actual route LB took that evening? Local LE immediately presumed dawdling or runaway - both of which were argued. That is all that could account for a delay.

Mullin's creek ditch was searched 6 times. Certainly they did not expect to find LB there after the 1st search, so what was LE expecting to find and what made them expect to find it? You&#8217;d have to ask LE or the residents. Though no one asked ever actually witnessed 6 searches.

Hi ChuckM. My answers are in bold red. I tried to answer to the best of my knowledge as to what I know at this point.

This is one of the reasons we are trying to get any previous search warrant information besides the Golder's. We want to know and have so many questions.

 

[TakeNote]

Thank you breanna

will you let us know.....if you get to read them

 

[carbuff]

I know I'm rehashing old events, but I still don't understand why, if the bike wasn't in working condition and hadn't been in some time, why did they have it with them? Makes no sense to me.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

/// snippage ///

Hi ChuckM. My answers are in bold red. I tried to answer to the best of my knowledge as to what I know at this point.

This is one of the reasons we are trying to get any previous search warrant information besides the Golder's. We want to know and have so many questions.

Thank you so much, breanna ... much appreciated!

 

[JenniferO]

I know I'm rehashing old events, but I still don't understand why, if the bike wasn't in working condition and hadn't been in some time, why did they have it with them? Makes no sense to me.

I have 4 kids and 4 step kids.. and I questioned why they did half the stuff they did while growing up. My parents probably did the same thing with me.

Sometimes kids just play with the oddest things. lol

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Does any know:

/// snippage ///

Why was JB's bike not retrieved the evening of the 06/26/2009 when they were searching for LB? There was no reason to pick up the bike it did not work &#8211; had no chain. It stayed where it was left for more than a week though location was noted and confirmed.

It was there for 'more than a week' and it was not stolen? Even broken bikes are fodder for bad behavior. Perhaps even going near the bike was taboo during that week ... ? A LE thing?

Was JB's bike intact when it was eventually retrieved from the Shell station area? It was in the same condition as it was left in. No chain but otherwise intact.

Might we assume there was no chain when it was initialty left there, or did the chain also go missing that evening or since original placement?

I think I saw the bike in question in front of MB's house while watching the Thanksgiving interview video. I think the front wheel was separated from the frame. Was that a recent condition or was that the condition of the bike when it was initially retrieved after 06/26/2009? That was not the same bike. That was the bike his dad got him around July.

What has become of the infamous broken bike?

Could we expect a neighbor would have returned the bike to the B house if they happened upon it that evening if they did not see JB or LB in the vicinity? No. The bike had not been ridden in several months so highly unlikely it would have been recognized.

Does anyone know why, after months of non-use, the bike was brought along? This goes to possible runaway scenario: was LB intending to use it to ride 'away' from McCleary or ride 'to' someone and was not aware the bike was broken or that JB could not fix it immediately for her use? Long shot but possible.

What was the context of the argument and who/m was witness to that argument?

/// snippage ///

Did MB, KK and / or MM enter LN's house that evening or was it strictly an outside encounter?
No and for the record MM was never there that evening.

Did MB / KK / SW contact LN via phone or go to LN's house at all that evening?

If they physically arrived to the LN house did they not feel a need to look inside in case LB was 'hiding' there?

Which presumptions by family and LE might have delayed them from persuing the actual route LB took that evening? Local LE immediately presumed dawdling or runaway - both of which were argued. That is all that could account for a delay.

I understand LE (across the country) deal with dawdlers and runways quite often in areas with even moderate child population but ... it's the time wasted on 'assumptions' that might affect a case. When kids are the concern, no assumption should be made ... place leather to pavement and ACT!

Mullin's creek ditch was searched 6 times. Certainly they did not expect to find LB there after the 1st search, so what was LE expecting to find and what made them expect to find it? You&#8217;d have to ask LE or the residents. Though no one asked ever actually witnessed 6 searches.

We know the ditch was searched at least once. I saw it right there on my on-line TV video thingy ... ;-) What led LE to that area? I'm guessing it was nothing in particular ... that it was just another area to search.

Regarding the route to the video store from LN's house ... was the boy over which LB and LN's kid were at odds with them on that trip?

Hi ChuckM. My answers are in bold red. I tried to answer to the best of my knowledge as to what I know at this point.

This is one of the reasons we are trying to get any previous search warrant information besides the Golder's. We want to know and have so many questions.

Please see my questions / comments in bold violet / purple / hot pink (whatever), above.

 

[carbuff]

I have 4 kids and 4 step kids.. and I questioned why they did half the stuff they did while growing up. My parents probably did the same thing with me.

Sometimes kids just play with the oddest things. lol

Well, yes, from an adult perspective it might not make sense, and that might be all there is to it. But when a kid goes missing, anything that odd deserves attention.

 

[kageykaren]

I'm watching the Scottland band play marching at our fallen LE funeral. Very sad!

I hope I get this right as it shows the mother's train of thought did go directly to Lindsey being a possible runaway as she stated within a televised video and in this article. Hope this wasn't a misprint causing much debate as before.

KCPQ, "Search underway for missing 10 yr. old" Roxanne Voenuker, Staff Reporter June 27th, 2009. "Though investigators are not calling Lindsey a runaway not even the girls family has ruled out the possibility" "We're hoping that Lindsey's just somewhere out there and she is afraid she's in trouble." "We're just kind of hoping she was mad and decided she just wanted to hide out or something. Thats kind of what were hoping right now." M Mcann. Before I go on does anyone see the odd way this statement was made? Sheriffs office wasn't called till 4:00a.m. MN must have made this comment when she showed up at the mothers. This tells me the train of thought in those hours leading up to sheriff response and on into at the afternoon. Maybe this is also the reason for delay in discovering what happened to Lindsey. If I'm correct these post can be found in the first 5 pages in the first Lindsey thread.

Hope this helped a bit.

 

[kageykaren]

"They need the eyes and they ears of a community" This was a quote made on Oprah today. This was in reference to helping LE. The tips LE has recieved seemed valid enough to warrant a search on the Golder property so I hope this trained team will see something within the tips past and current to warrant another SW. John Walsh just came on and stated LE looks at parents first, releases them and moves on. Has the mother ever been released as this is usually shared with media?

Each state needs a dedicated channel just for the missing.

 

[TakeNote]

I'm watching the Scottland band play marching at our fallen LE funeral. Very sad!

I hope I get this right as it shows the mother's train of thought did go directly to Lindsey being a possible runaway as she stated within a televised video and in this article. Hope this wasn't a misprint causing much debate as before.

KCPQ, "Search underway for missing 10 yr. old" Roxanne Voenuker, Staff Reporter June 27th, 2009. "Though investigators are not calling Lindsey a runaway not even the girls family has ruled out the possibility" "We're hoping that Lindsey's just somewhere out there and she is afraid she's in trouble." "We're just kind of hoping she was mad and decided she just wanted to hide out or something. Thats kind of what were hoping right now." M Mcann. Before I go on does anyone see the odd way this statement was made? Sheriffs office wasn't called till 4:00a.m. MN must have made this comment when she showed up at the mothers. This tells me the train of thought in those hours leading up to sheriff response and on into at the afternoon. Maybe this is also the reason for delay in discovering what happened to Lindsey. If I'm correct these post can be found in the first 5 pages in the first Lindsey thread.

Hope this helped a bit.

thanks kageykaren!!

This is something i hope someone can ask momB ....what the thought is why lindsey would be afraid to come home, and why she would have been mad.....what were the events that led up to that night....i do not believe it had anything to do with the bike or not being able to have someone spend the night......something is missing here

 

[SailorMoon]

This makes me sad. This little girl deserves to be found and brought home. Scary that kids disappear without a trace it seems.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I'm watching the Scottland band play marching at our fallen LE funeral. Very sad!

I hope I get this right as it shows the mother's train of thought did go directly to Lindsey being a possible runaway as she stated within a televised video and in this article. Hope this wasn't a misprint causing much debate as before.

KCPQ, "Search underway for missing 10 yr. old" Roxanne Voenuker, Staff Reporter June 27th, 2009. "Though investigators are not calling Lindsey a runaway not even the girls family has ruled out the possibility" "We're hoping that Lindsey's just somewhere out there and she is afraid she's in trouble." "We're just kind of hoping she was mad and decided she just wanted to hide out or something. Thats kind of what were hoping right now." M Mcann. Before I go on does anyone see the odd way this statement was made? Sheriffs office wasn't called till 4:00a.m. MN must have made this comment when she showed up at the mothers. This tells me the train of thought in those hours leading up to sheriff response and on into at the afternoon. Maybe this is also the reason for delay in discovering what happened to Lindsey. If I'm correct these post can be found in the first 5 pages in the first Lindsey thread.

Hope this helped a bit.

....she is afraid she's in trouble."

I read that as they were thinking LB was afraid she was in trouble for teasing JB and maybe for leaving the bike behind.

....hoping she was mad and decided she just wanted to hide

I read that as they were thinking she was mad because the sleep over plans were ruined.

Anyway... some reasoning follows regarding the bike, the Shell station and the hapenstance of that evening which leads me again to a previous possible scenario I posted a while back:

I suspect they were taking the bike to MK's house to ask SW to fix it. LB might not have been aware the chain was missing and along the way JB was telling her it needs a whole new chain so SW could not 'fix' it.

The commotion at the Shell station over whom should take the bike home would have extended their exposure in that area and might have pulled attention toward their group from whomever (SO or other creepy) was gassing up or purchasing items at the convenience store.

Conversations they were having quite likely included more than the bike, such as when they walked back that way to LB's house they could pick up the bike then or they discussed what they were going to do during the sleep over at LB's house.

We might rule out the 'commotion attention and SO' scenario, since there were three in the group: LB, MK and JB. Surely an SO would not attempt to kidnap three. But the SO's interest might have been piqued enough to cause him to just want to *observe* them for a while.

At some point the SO, from afar or from in hiding or from his/hers parked vehicle, witnesses JB being sent home or otherwise sees him walking back without the girls. Again, the conversation about walking back that way for the sleep over might have been enough to cause the SO to continue to hang around long enough to witness....

....LB walking back home, alone. An opportunity. Does he grab her on Maple? Does he quickly drive back to the Shell station next to the bike to attempt to trap LB by offering to fix the bike, "I have a chain at my house"?

No, we are informed LB would not be an easy target and would not fall for any simple ploy, that she was savy.

Assuming much of the above scenario *opinion* is accurate, then that leaves only this:

An SO would grab LB away from the lights of the main road and the Shell station. Perhaps near the end of Maple at Main or on the other side of 3rd, along Mommsen. A car parked in the Mommsen lot behind the Shell station would not be unusual. Open the vehicle door, grab LB and pull her in and disappear east on Mommsen.

ETA: we can exclude that LB was not seen on the Shell station video because the direction of the cameras most likely would not capture persons walking the path east on Maple, across Main and 3rd, to Mommsen.

 

[kageykaren]

This makes me sad. This little girl deserves to be found and brought home. Scary that kids disappear without a trace it seems.

You are so right SailorMoon! I have a link that I feel might be helpful in understanding the kind of Violent Sex Offenders our LE have to deal with when investigating these crimes. This pdf shows our LE hear in Wa. State the differences and escalation of Child predators. These crimes are increasing do to the state of financial affairs in our own country. The Title is "Case Management for Missing Children Homocide Investigation"
This is unsettling in regards to Lindsey as she may have been in a melting pot of these types of offenders and the way their minds work. To think this person is in town is scary along with stats showing no one has a clue the monsters within these men and women.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/pr/201316.pdf

 

[TamgMit]

I read that as they were thinking LB was afraid she was in trouble for teasing JB and maybe for leaving the bike behind.



I read that as they were thinking she was mad because the sleep over plans were ruined.

Anyway... some reasoning follows regarding the bike, the Shell station and the hapenstance of that evening which leads me again to a previous possible scenario I posted a while back:

I suspect they were taking the bike to MK's house to ask SW to fix it. LB might not have been aware the chain was missing and along the way JB was telling her it needs a whole new chain so SW could not 'fix' it.

The commotion at the Shell station over whom should take the bike home would have extended their exposure in that area and might have pulled attention toward their group from whomever (SO or other creepy) was gassing up or purchasing items at the convenience store.

Conversations they were having quite likely included more than the bike, such as when they walked back that way to LB's house they could pick up the bike then or they discussed what they were going to do during the sleep over at LB's house.

We might rule out the 'commotion attention and SO' scenario, since there were three in the group: LB, MK and JB. Surely an SO would not attempt to kidnap three. But the SO's interest might have been piqued enough to cause him to just want to *observe* them for a while.

At some point the SO, from afar or from in hiding or from his/hers parked vehicle, witnesses JB being sent home or otherwise sees him walking back without the girls. Again, the conversation about walking back that way for the sleep over might have been enough to cause the SO to continue to hang around long enough to witness....

....LB walking back home, alone. An opportunity. Does he grab her on Maple? Does he quickly drive back to the Shell station next to the bike to attempt to trap LB by offering to fix the bike, "I have a chain at my house"?

No, we are informed LB would not be an easy target and would not fall for any simple ploy, that she was savy.

Assuming much of the above scenario *opinion* is accurate, then that leaves only this:

An SO would grab LB away from the lights of the main road and the Shell station. Perhaps near the end of Maple at Main or on the other side of 3rd, along Mommsen. A car parked in the Mommsen lot behind the Shell station would not be unusual. Open the vehicle door, grab LB and pull her in and disappear east on Mommsen.

ETA: we can exclude that LB was not seen on the Shell station video because the direction of the cameras most likely would not capture persons walking the path east on Maple, across Main and 3rd, to Mommsen.

Hey chuck/maureen

Got to thinking about the bike thing and the witnesses. I would think if I were to witness something from a vehical that would mean I would have to stop that vehical, get out to find what is going on. Then, got to thinking if the witness was just leaving for work or visiting a friend then she would be more apt to hear the teasing and would attempt to stop it when she was asked to send JB home by the girls. So I was wondering if it is possible the witness didn't stop the argueing near the shell station but closer to KK's house maybe a neighbor thereby sending a mad JB home with the bike towards the shell station. He makes it as far as station, when he sees LB walking back towards home. She only stays a short time at KK's so wouldn't that be close to the amount of time it would take for him to walk the bike back to the station from where ever place the witness was that broke up the argument. Maybe he saw her turn and decided to catch up to her but was unable to. He got distracted and started back home and forgot about the bike thereby leaving it. Wonder how much time it does take for one to walk from KK's to the Shell station. Just a thought.

 

[carbuff]

A thought I had about the bike -- maybe Lindsey was planning to get it fixed so she could run away/increase the range of her travel? Left it at the Shell station with plans to have somebody there fix it for her (maybe they'd already offered)? She might even have been headed back to the Shell station to talk to that person when she disappeared.

 

[razzberry]

Does anyone know how many bike's the Baum children had when Lindsey went missing?
We know about the bike that was left at the shell station for days and the bike JB's father bought him after arriving in Mccleary.
I ask because of the PaulO statement about Josh ridding his bike to his (PO's)house at 11 pm the night after Lindsey went missing.
Also from everything I have read Lindsey was'nt alone all day untill she left MK's for home, do any of the kids Lindsey was with that day remember Lindsey getting in trouble or chastised by any adult that day?? Did they all do something to get in trouble and don't want to say for fear of being in trouble with parents maybe?
Did they break something?
Steal something?
Trespass?