WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #18

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Haddie McFaddies Mom said:
Right. And if that were the case then there would be no reason for the other two accountings of his whereabouts during that critical time frame ... first reported to be home passed out, and in another, he was working (which he was not).
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Excellent point! If that is him in the video, there is another lie for the record. Iirc, when he was first questioned about his whereabouts that night, he said he was working (it was his day off from the Beehive and he was still on suspension from the camp job). Then when that didn't pan out he said he was at a BBQ at a neighbors house and then he left there and went home and went to sleep. I think that is in the affidavit. Anyone remember what time he said he went back home? I am thinking it was 9 pm. And by going home, I am assuming it was to his Mom's house in McCleary, not Elma right?
 
Jules71 said:
RoseWhite,
Thank you for doing this! Great letter. I may have missed it, but did you hear anything back?
Click to expand...

I emailed all the council members. NOT A PEEP BACK. Of course, they could be discussing and not commenting until a decision is made. I don't know.
 
Salem said:
SS and Kagy - I have unapproved several of your posts. However I am a bit intrigued by the possible connection here and I'm going to have admin take a look at this thread.

In the meantime - would one of you or both of you please make a post, with links but no names, that clearly explains how the people in question are related to this case and could possibly be related to Lindsey?

Before this discussion goes any further, I would like to see a clear connection.

Thank you,

Salem
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Boy, We gotta LOVE our Salem. Ya YA ;}
 
Thank you Jenno for putting up that link. I was getting very discourage and sad and I was hoping that Lindsey case wasn't going to end up a cold case. I hope they do find something that gives a clue where she is and they bring this young lady home. Praying for Lindsey that she will soon be found and justice will be served. I believe LE and the CARD team have been working hard on all the information and maybe, just maybe, they have a good idea where to find her. Thank you all who have helped in this case.
 
One wonders if the park and immediate area surrounding the then-Baum residence was thoroughly searched, as was the area between 7th and 3rd?

Is it a common assumption MB never crossed 3rd, passed the Shell station and to the park or through the area surrounding her home?

In the Jessica Lundsford case, Jessica was located less than one hundred yards from her home ... I'm just sayin' ...

I believed they searched the park recently, but what of the homes surrounding the then-Baum residence or a family friend's house on 3rd street?

I also believe they extensively searched around the 'pool house' ... but what of the houses within eye-shot of that pool?

It just seems to me the focus is mainly on between 7th and 3rd street area ... and I believe that is short-sighted if true.
 
I found an interesting commentary on this blog:

http://patfish.blogspot.com/2006/08/true-crime-update-8806.html

Destiny Norton-Another Jessica Lunsford?

The city is outraged. Homes near Destiny Norton, who was missing from her front yard where she was last seen, were allegedly searched "four or five" times. Like little Jessica Lunsford before her, Destiny had been abducted by a neighbor and her body was found right next door to her home.

This sort of thing is such a tragedy. I remember too well the alarm over the missing Jessica and the search. Jessica's body too was discovered in a neighboring home. She too was found dead. She too, like Destiny, might well have been alive as investigators and volunteers searched desperately for her.

I don't have any answers except to ask all neighbors to volunteer a search of their homes should a nearby child suddenly go missing. Those who refuse should be looked at real close and a legal search warrant somehow obtained quickly to target the homes of those who refused to agree.

Click to expand...


Could LB be so close (to her then-home) so as to be literally under the very noses of those who are searching for her?
 
I am very flustered, even angered after hearing the information reported in this newscast:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/92726054.html?tab=video

It is reported that a 10 month long combination of 'language barrier' and the station owner's lack of knowledge of how to operate the surveillance equipment or software prevented LE from obtaining the all too important surveillance video sooner.

The images were recorded the evening LB disappeared.

I am aware LE has a rough time, it's not an easy job by any definition but I would be quite ashamed if I were the Officer offering that explanation.

Can someone answer why LE and the FBI were unable to communicate the necessity of obtaining the surveillance recordings?

As for lack of knowledge of operating the system: surely LE and the FBI have individuals on staff savy enough to determine how to operate the system, if not directly then perhaps the manufacturer could assist?

At this moment, I'm experiencing a Lewis Black-level outrage. Seriously.


It's a 1 2 3 process:
  1. determine the station owners language - how did he complete the necessary forms to own / operate the business?
  2. locate an interpreter
  3. explain the situation
I simply can not believe 10 months had passed before LE / FBI could acquire the recordings. Unbelievable. Stunning. Unacceptable. Unbelievable.

Yes, 'Unbelievable.' twice.

A search warrant could have resolved the issue during the initial days after LB went missing if perhaps the owner had reservations of becoming involved. Justification or argument for acquisition of the video information includes the location of the station, as it is in near-direct path MB would be traveling, plus the fact the station hosts surveillance cameras and recording software.

I'm sorry ... yes, this is considered relatively 'old' news but it seems to me to be an absolutely ridiculous explanation ...

... so as an attempt to maintain my sanity to an acceptable level I might conclude LE actually obtained the videos early on ... and for some reason LE does not want the public to know for the entire 10 month period.

Nah, uh-uh and no way.

I can not fathom a reason why LE would want to portray they acquired the videos only recently ... unless of course the individual(s) are considered as suspect.

The video of the 'man in the brown shirt' reveals he enters the station convenience store with a young boy (perhaps 8 yrs old?), and exits with that boy. No mention of this video content in the newscast, above. Odd, but it could be LE believes the 'man in the brown shirt', since companioned with a child, is least-considered as suspect since the child does not indicate as being stressed or reluctant.

The video of the 'man in the white cap' reveals he enters the station convenience store alone and exits alone. He briefly speaks with the clerk and then leaves the store. It is reported LE believes he is not from the area.

The video of the 'Ridgeline' vehicle reveals it enters the station lot twice ... and each time from opppsite directions. Perhaps explainable as the driver may have become confused when attempting to exit the station through the lot behind the station and was unable to locate a vehicle exit so re-routes through the station lot?

Language barrier and 'did not know how to operate the equipment'.

'Unbelievable.', now thrice.
 
ChuckMaureen said:
I am very flustered, even angered after hearing the information reported in this newscast:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/92726054.html?tab=video

It is reported that a 10 month long combination of 'language barrier' and the station owner's lack of knowledge of how to operate the surveillance equipment or software prevented LE from obtaining the all too important surveillance video sooner.

The images were recorded the evening MB disappeared.

I am aware LE has a rough time, it's not an easy job by any definition but I would be quite ashamed if I were the Officer offering that explanation.

Can someone answer why LE and the FBI were unable to communicate the necessity of obtaining the surveillance recordings?

As for lack of knowledge of operating the system: surely LE and the FBI have individuals on staff savy enough to determine how to operate the system, if not directly then perhaps the manufacturer could assist?

At this moment, I'm experiencing a Lewis Black-level outrage. Seriously.

It's a 1 2 3 process:
  1. determine the station owners language - how did he complete the necessary forms to own / operate the business?
  2. locate an interpreter
  3. explain the situation
I simply can not believe 10 months had passed before LE / FBI could acquire the recordings. Unbelievable. Stunning. Unacceptable. Unbelievable.

Yes, 'Unbelievable.' twice.

A search warrant could have resolved the issue during the initial days after MB went missing if perhaps the owner had reservations of becoming involved. Justification or argument for acquisition of the video information includes the location of the station, as it is in near-direct path MB would be traveling, plus the fact the station hosts surveillance cameras and recording software.

I'm sorry ... yes, this is considered relatively 'old' news but it seems to me to be an absolutely ridiculous explanation ...

... so as an attempt to maintain my sanity to an acceptable level I might conclude LE actually obtained the videos early on ... and for some reason LE does not want the public to know for the entire 10 month period.

Nah, uh-uh and no way.

I can not fathom a reason why LE would want to portray they acquired the videos only recently ... unless of course the individual(s) are considered as suspect.

The video of the 'man in the brown shirt' reveals he enters the station convenience store with a young boy (perhaps 8 yrs old?), and exits with that boy. No mention of this video content in the newscast, above. Odd, but it could be LE believes the 'man in the brown shirt', since companioned with a child, is least-considered as suspect since the child does not indicate as being stressed or reluctant.

The video of the 'man in the white cap' reveals he enters the station convenience store alone and exits alone. He briefly speaks with the clerk and then leaves the store. It is reported LE believes he is not from the area.

The video of the 'Ridgeline' vehicle reveals it enters the station lot twice ... and each time from opppsite directions. Perhaps explainable as the driver may have become confused when attempting to exit the station through the lot behind the station and was unable to locate a vehicle exit so re-routes through the station lot?

Language barrier and 'did not know how to operate the equipment'.

'Unbelievable.', now thrice.
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Hi Chuck, Is it a corporate station?

You know I sell CCTV for a living. Most usually gas stations are owned by an oil corporation and often it is hard to break thru that barrier just in talking to the right person about their security. I wouldn't think LE would have a communication problem tho - that is strange. The one man who works there and lives up on that hill past the RR tracks is a white guy I think so there would be no language barrier there.

It would depend on the equip they have at the station. Nowadays with a digital system the owner accesses his system on line thru an IP address. Technology is so advanced now that all LE has to do is upload their site and put in their password, etc. and voila, they can see the camera's view live {if it is set up that way} or look at the shots where movement activated the cameras. LE doesn't even have to go to the site and can view it right from the station.

That is why there has to be something not normal going on here. Either their system is analog {we don't even sell that anymore} or the station has not put their system on line for direct viewing. xox
 
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/96842294.html

"Reward balloons as police renew search for Lindsey Baum"

"What was a $25,000 reward has been increased to $30,000.

Meanwhile, the anniversary is providing a time when detectives can talk to people who may only pass through here once a year. McCleary is a small town but a real crossroads with a lot of traffic, and state troopers and the FBI returned to McCleary to ramp up the investigation."



Not only are law enforcement in town, but I was happy to see the return of the trailer from Gordon's Trucking with Lindsey's face on it back in its place on the main road through town.
 
McCleary said:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/96842294.html

"Reward balloons as police renew search for Lindsey Baum"

"What was a $25,000 reward has been increased to $30,000.

Meanwhile, the anniversary is providing a time when detectives can talk to people who may only pass through here once a year. McCleary is a small town but a real crossroads with a lot of traffic, and state troopers and the FBI returned to McCleary to ramp up the investigation."



Not only are law enforcement in town, but I was happy to see the return of the trailer from Gordon's Trucking with Lindsey's face on it back in its place on the main road through town.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that McCleary, It is just beyond me none of their tips have resulted in finding Lindsey. I think about her every day hoping it will be the day she comes home. xox
 
scandi said:
Hi Chuck, Is it a corporate station?

You know I sell CCTV for a living. Most usually gas stations are owned by an oil corporation and often it is hard to break thru that barrier just in talking to the right person about their security. I wouldn't think LE would have a communication problem tho - that is strange. The one man who works there and lives up on that hill past the RR tracks is a white guy I think so there would be no language barrier there.

It would depend on the equip they have at the station. Nowadays with a digital system the owner accesses his system on line thru an IP address. Technology is so advanced now that all LE has to do is upload their site and put in their password, etc. and voila, they can see the camera's view live {if it is set up that way} or look at the shots where movement activated the cameras. LE doesn't even have to go to the site and can view it right from the station.

That is why there has to be something not normal going on here. Either their system is analog {we don't even sell that anymore} or the station has not put their system on line for direct viewing. xox
Click to expand...

Hi, scandi ... !

I suspect the surveillance videos were not a 'priority' because LE and / or the FBI mostly maintained their focus between 7th and 3rd and on the infamous 'ditch'. They most likely operated on the assumption LB never made it as far as crossing 3rd, much less to the gas station?

After multiple searches looking at the same trash can or short stretches of 6th St. asphalt I think a light bulb materialized over someone's head and the thought popped: "maybe LB *did* make it closer to or even crossed 3rd" ... and that's when the surveillance videos then were considered with priority.

I'm speculating, of course. It all could filter down to:

... obtaining the password(s) was near impossible because there hadn't been a need to view recordings for so long and no one knew whom to contact?

Analog systems still are available but mostly for non-professional, home use ... the once-very-obtrusive X10 website has been hawking their analogs for years but I expect a major corporation laden with security requirements since 9/11 would at least be using digital equipment with a dvr that provides at least a simple gui with F1-accessible Help.

IP camera images are directly viewable via a browser, and depending on the model might require a plug-in to control for ptz, image quality, frame rate, etc. Though I expect the cameras installed at that station are static (non-ptz) but still might require a plug-in to view images.

I've been in the electronics and computer fields for 30+ years ... sometimes 'technology' never presents as being 'new' to me because I've been 'around it' for sooo long ... but for LE and the FBI to not realize access to the system for 10 months?

Were they looking for a VHS recorder and stored 1/2" tapes for 10 months, or did they understand it is a dvr system but were intimidated by it because it presented as being so complicated they thought only a super-qualified nerdy engineer wearing a secret decoder ring could access / operate the beast?

It just does not pass the smell test.

I'll repeat my first paragraph, from above:

I suspect the surveillance videos were not a 'priority' because LE and / or the FBI mostly maintained their focus between 7th and 3rd and on the infamous 'ditch'. They most likely operated on the assumption LB never made it as far as crossing 3rd, much less to the gas station ...

... and there was no assumed priority in obtaining view access.

Unbelievable.
 
ChuckMaureen, I noticed in a couple different posts now you are referring to "MB" as having disappeared. Can you clear up those initials for us? I think around here MB is generally accepted as being Melissa Baum, who is very much not missing.
 
LLLindsayy said:
ChuckMaureen, I noticed in a couple different posts now you are referring to "MB" as having disappeared. Can you clear up those initials for us? I think around here MB is generally accepted as being Melissa Baum, who is very much not missing.
Click to expand...

Thanks, LLLindsayy,

I thought I had changed them all but of course I missed a few ... heck, I'm old.
 
ChuckMaureen said:
Hi, scandi ... !

I suspect the surveillance videos were not a 'priority' because LE and / or the FBI mostly maintained their focus between 7th and 3rd and on the infamous 'ditch'. They most likely operated on the assumption LB never made it as far as crossing 3rd, much less to the gas station?

After multiple searches looking at the same trash can or short stretches of 6th St. asphalt I think a light bulb materialized over someone's head and the thought popped: "maybe LB *did* make it closer to or even crossed 3rd" ... and that's when the surveillance videos then were considered with priority.

I'm speculating, of course. It all could filter down to:

... obtaining the password(s) was near impossible because there hadn't been a need to view recordings for so long and no one knew whom to contact?

Analog systems still are available but mostly for non-professional, home use ... the once-very-obtrusive X10 website has been hawking their analogs for years but I expect a major corporation laden with security requirements since 9/11 would at least be using digital equipment with a dvr that provides at least a simple gui with F1-accessible Help.

IP camera images are directly viewable via a browser, and depending on the model might require a plug-in to control for ptz, image quality, frame rate, etc. Though I expect the cameras installed at that station are static (non-ptz) but still might require a plug-in to view images.

I've been in the electronics and computer fields for 30+ years ... sometimes 'technology' never presents as being 'new' to me because I've been 'around it' for sooo long ... but for LE and the FBI to not realize access to the system for 10 months?

Were they looking for a VHS recorder and stored 1/2" tapes for 10 months, or did they understand it is a dvr system but were intimidated by it because it presented as being so complicated they thought only a super-qualified nerdy engineer wearing a secret decoder ring could access / operate the beast?

It just does not pass the smell test.

I'll repeat my first paragraph, from above:

I suspect the surveillance videos were not a 'priority' because LE and / or the FBI mostly maintained their focus between 7th and 3rd and on the infamous 'ditch'. They most likely operated on the assumption LB never made it as far as crossing 3rd, much less to the gas station ...

... and there was no assumed priority in obtaining view access.

Unbelievable.
Click to expand...

As a former database manager, I suspect that what might have happened is along these lines:

Their system is probably set up with small local systems in each station being backed up automatically to a regional or national database. There are lots of possibilities for this depending on the Shell franchise rules and how much independence the local operator and chain owner are allowed.

The part of the system that's actually in the store is probably pretty small. It's probably set up so that when it runs out of space to store the current images, it starts to overwrite the oldest images. A typical amount of storage allows for two weeks of data, but if it's being backed up nightly, they might keep only a day or two.

The local station guy might or might not know how to look at more than the current day's picture. They're thinking about catching shoplifters, driveoffs, and maybe the occasional late-night robber, not kidnapping victims.

I suspect that by the time LE came looking for the backup data, it had been overwritten locally, and that the local guy said, "Sorry, it's already been overwritten, you'll have to ask the owner about the backups."

The name of the owner of record would indicate possible non-English-speaking origin. When LE asked about the backups, he probably went to the store, looked at the same system again, maybe even poked around, and said, "Sorry, no backups."

Not realizing that the backup was somewhere else entirely, or not realizing that wasn't what they meant.

When they started going back over the old questions and reviewing everything, they probably noticed the loose end, followed up, and this time found somebody who knew how the system operated and tracked down the backup.

That's why the kind of review they started out with is so important -- because things do get overlooked. Details fall through cracks. Loose ends are left hanging. Sometimes following up yields wonderful results.
 
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