Identified! WA - Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #6 *name withheld*

[Taticat]

DDP Update

[emoji654]️ We need YOUR help! [emoji653]️
As many of you know, we are the DNA Doe Project, a nonprofit organization that utilizes pioneering genetic genealogy techniques to identify John and Jane Does in an effort to return them to their families. Recently we announced our first successful identification of Marcia King, previously known as “Buckskin Girl” and we are working diligently to solve our other active John and Jane Doe cases.

Our volunteers have been working around the clock to identify “Lyle Stevik”/Quinault John Doe, an unidentified individual who died in Washington state in 2001. We have been extremely fortunate to find many of his DNA matches through the online DNA database GEDmatch.com. “Lyle’s” DNA matches appear to be mainly people of Hispanic descent in Northern New Mexico and surrounding regions.

[emoji654]️ How you can help? [emoji653]️
[emoji736] We encourage people who are from these regions and who have used commercial DNA services such as Ancestry or 23&Me to consider downloading their raw DNA data and uploading it to GEDmatch. A DNA database is only as strong as the number of users included, and although we have many excellent matches to “Lyle,” there is strength in numbers!

[emoji736] If you have already uploaded your raw DNA data to GEDmatch, we thank you for helping us to achieve our mission. Please understand that if your GEDmatch kit is a DNA match to Lyle, we cannot tell you if you are a close match to “Lyle,” nor can we share this information due to privacy concerns for the families involved. If you have further questions or want to learn more about our mission and methods, please follow our Facebook page and check out our website (www.dnadoeproject.org).

[emoji736] As trite as it sounds, liking, commenting, and sharing our Facebook posts, or tagging friends helps us to increase the visibility of the project. Inviting friends who are interested in the goals of the DDP is also helpful

[emoji736] Donating to our Doe Fund Me is of course helpful

Has it ever been suggested to seek voluntary submissions via a flyer in Ancestry and 23&Me results? That would help, even in moving beyond Lyle's case. If that ever has been spitballed, possibly start now on some way of ensuring that GEDMatch doesn't lip over into being just a second CODIS-like resource for LE, because that possibility might be a factor in hampering voluntary cooperation otherwise. Jmo, but I tend towards being very privacy-conscious, and while I'd turn someraults to help a Doe case, my inner Libertarian isn't keen on rolling out the red carpet for any kind of governmental hyperinvolvement. It's highly unlikely that I personally would be any type of a match in Lyle's case based on the groups mentioned, but I don't think I'm the only person alive who would want to err on the side of caution for fifty or a hundred years from now. Again, moo, and I'm just trying to help.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

I'm not completely sure, but I think it means there was a lot of inter-marrying of cousins (or closer relatives). JMO.

If that is the case then could it be possible Lyle was from some isolated cult? I heard of one discovered a few years ago in Australia where it was multi-generations of one family. Only thing in that case was incest was to an extreme. Could he have even escaped a polygamist cult? The many relatives related to each other(due to many many half-siblings), the book reference (finally having freedom to read anything), and the lack of belongings when he was found.

Sent from my LG-M153 using Tapatalk

 

[Gardener1850]

If that is the case then could it be possible Lyle was from some isolated cult? I heard of one discovered a few years ago in Australia where it was multi-generations of one family. Only thing in that case was incest was to an extreme. Could he have even escaped a polygamist cult? The many relatives related to each other(due to many many half-siblings), the book reference (finally having freedom to read anything), and the lack of belongings when he was found.

Sent from my LG-M153 using Tapatalk

I guess that is possible but with Lyle's case I think it's more likely to be a historical/cultural/political reason for the intermarrying. Earlier in this thread someone brought up the Genizaros. It might be helpful to read up on them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genízaro

The take away I got from reading the wiki is that they were a Native American population sold into slavery, then treated like 2nd class citizens when they were no longer slaves. They would have intermarried among themselves mainly because of community isolation and history-- not trusting those who enslaved them in the past and not being accepted by the others either. Other small pockets of minority populations may intermarry for cultural reasons that have nothing to do with it being a cult and everything to do with preserving their heritage and way or life or simply physical isolation (small tribes living in areas difficult for others to reach like the rain forest, for example). Another possible explanation is that with some enslaved populations comes multiple generations of children conceived by force<modsnip> on the part of the slaveholders and the slaveholders descendants-- very quickly you can end up having a child who resulted from two genetic half sibling parents (I should stress I don't know if this happened specifically with the Genizaros, just giving another example of why a small population may be intermingled genetically in the distant past). All JMO.

 

[Claireishere]

Related DNA means exactly what you’re thinking. I grew up with friends that were Indians from Oklahoma. Their dad was also their great uncle. It’s apparently somewhat common in native tribes still.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bit of hope]

I'm not completely sure, but I think it means there was a lot of inter-marrying of cousins (or closer relatives). JMO.

I think you are right. That's how I perceived it.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I guess that is possible but with Lyle's case I think it's more likely to be a historical/cultural/political reason for the intermarrying. Earlier in this thread someone brought up the Genizaros. It might be helpful to read up on them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genízaro

The take away I got from reading the wiki is that they were a Native American population sold into slavery, then treated like 2nd class citizens when they were no longer slaves. They would have intermarried among themselves mainly because of community isolation and history-- not trusting those who enslaved them in the past and not being accepted by the others either. Other small pockets of minority populations may intermarry for cultural reasons that have nothing to do with it being a cult and everything to do with preserving their heritage and way or life or simply physical isolation (small tribes living in areas difficult for others to reach like the rain forest, for example). Another possible explanation is that with some enslaved populations comes multiple generations of children conceived by force<modsnip> on the part of the slaveholders and the slaveholders descendants-- very quickly you can end up having a child who resulted from two genetic half sibling parents (I should stress I don't know if this happened specifically with the Genizaros, just giving another example of why a small population may be intermingled genetically in the distant past). All JMO.

THANK YOU, Gardener!! &#10084;&#65039;&#10084;&#65039;&#10084;&#65039;

 

[Sillybilly]

:stop:

Please stop bickering and derailing this thread with negative generalizations about various cultures. Finding Lyle's identity is what is important. Discussion regarding the possibility that Lyle was a product of a forced sexual act is distasteful.

If you don't understand the above, please PM me for clarification.

:tyou:

 

[Gardener1850]

THANK YOU, Gardener!! &#10084;&#65039;&#10084;&#65039;&#10084;&#65039;

I tried to state things as sensitively as possible. (Sorry to the mods that I didn't do quite a good enough job and one word had to be removed-- I hate using that word myself but felt "forced" may not be strong enough of a term)
In hindsight view of my post, I wanted to mention that I was discussing events that happened centuries ago. I was not meaning to suggest anything about the possible relationships of Lyle's immediate/close family members. We should probably remember when discussing the DNA Ancestry work that DDP is doing they may be tracing Lyle's ancestry going back hundreds of years in order to try to find his family line. That is complicated for ANY family tree regardless of ethnicity. JMO.

 

[Gardener1850]

:stop:

Please stop bickering and derailing this thread with negative generalizations about various cultures. Finding Lyle's identity is what is important. Discussion regarding the possibility that Lyle was a product of a forced sexual act is distasteful.

If you don't understand the above, please PM me for clarification.

:tyou:

Sorry, I did not see this when I was composing my post above but I hope my post clarifies I didn't mean to start an argument on that topic. I agree and hope we can move on.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

If that is the case then could it be possible Lyle was from some isolated cult? I heard of one discovered a few years ago in Australia where it was multi-generations of one family. Only thing in that case was incest was to an extreme. Could he have even escaped a polygamist cult? The many relatives related to each other(due to many many half-siblings), the book reference (finally having freedom to read anything), and the lack of belongings when he was found.

I believe his lack of belongings could have been that he was planning to complete suicide. He was conscientious to a degree, paying off his room in cash, not leaving a messy scene, and I even imagine him as somewhat fastidious in the way he folded the rag under his chin and was personally well-kempt — clean and well-groomed.

The seeming thoughtfulness and “politeness” of how it all happened is jarring to me. For some reason, it underscores (for me, anyway) the yawning loneliness that I think engulfed him in the end. He went quietly into the night, leaving a one-word, handwritten manifesto: SUICIDE.

But a cult survivor wouldn’t be out of the question, either, though I agree it’s probably not as likely a scenario. Sorta OT, but anyone else here remember the Order of the Solar Temple? Even when they escaped, they often didn’t escape — they were still murdered or completed suicide into the late 1990s. I guess some are still active practitioners to this day. If Lyle was from Canada (although his DNA family is Native/New Mexican), a parent could have been a member, or he could have grown up around it.

Yeah, yeah, I know it isn’t likely. But you’re right, it’s not an impossibility at this point.

Cults made a comeback of sorts in the 90s, to be sure.

 

[bluesneakers]

I believe his lack of belongings could have been that he was planning to complete suicide. He was conscientious to a degree, paying off his room in cash, not leaving a messy scene, and I even imagine him as somewhat fastidious in the way he folded the rag under his chin and was personally well-kempt &#8212; clean and well-groomed.

But a cult survivor wouldn&#8217;t be out of the question, either, though I agree it&#8217;s probably not as likely a scenario. Sorta OT, but anyone else here remember the Order of the Solar Temple? Even when they escaped, they often didn&#8217;t escape &#8212; they were still murdered or completed suicide into the late 1990s. I guess some are still active practitioners to this day. If Lyle was from Canada (although his DNA family is Native/New Mexican), a parent could have been a member, or he could have grown up around it.

Yeah, yeah, I know it isn&#8217;t likely. But you&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s not an impossibility at this point.

Cults made a comeback of sorts in the 90s, to be sure.

FLDS is still active not far from where Lyle was found. If he was a "Lost Boy" that might explain the reason no family has been located. I don't know how the DNA results connect to that possibility though.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sorry, I did not see this when I was composing my post above but I hope my post clarifies I didn't mean to start an argument on that topic. I agree and hope we can move on.

All's well Gardener. I know you meant no harm.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

FLDS is still active not far from where Lyle was found. If he was a "Lost Boy" that might explain the reason no family has been located. I don't know how the DNA results connect to that possibility though.

Probably makes it less likely he’s a “Lost Boy” if his DNA doesn’t connect with FDLS family, though? That said, boys were definitely devalued in Warren Jeffs’ group. Cast aside. If he went in when he was child ... hmmmm.

The Order polygamist cult and crime family was still around in 2011 in Utah, right? Into California and Nevada? I wonder if any of a group like that would correlate with Lyle’s isotope test results.

*heads out to commence Googling ...

 

[bluesneakers]

Hmmm. Probably makes it less likely he&#8217;s a &#8220;Lost Boy&#8221; if his DNA doesn&#8217;t connect with FDLS family, though? That said, boys were definitely devalued in Warren Jeffs&#8217; group. Cast aside.

The Order polygamist cult and crime family was still around in 2011 in Utah, right? Into California and Nevada? I wonder if any of something like would correlate with Lyle&#8217;s isotope test results.

*heads out to commence Googling ...

I think Utah, Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, British Columbia, and Texas. Maybe Colorado.

I know there are a lot of connections between LDS and Native Americans, but I don't know enough to say how it would affect someone's DNA.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Inside ‘The Order”

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/inside-the-order-one-mormon-cults-secret-empire-20110615

(June 2011 story)

The Kingston group controlled “100 businesses spread out across the Western states, from a casino in California to a cattle ranch in Nevada to a factory that makes lifelike dolls in Utah.”

Also ties to Idaho, Arizona, Mexico, Colorado, Oregon, Washington ...

My phone won’t copy/paste from web pages right now, but here’s an interesting section from the Rolling Stone link:

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/inside-the-order-one-mormon-cults-secret-empire-20110615

http://kingstonclan.com/

 

[Sherwood Park]

If that is the case then could it be possible Lyle was from some isolated cult? I heard of one discovered a few years ago in Australia where it was multi-generations of one family. Only thing in that case was incest was to an extreme. Could he have even escaped a polygamist cult? The many relatives related to each other(due to many many half-siblings), the book reference (finally having freedom to read anything), and the lack of belongings when he was found.

Sent from my LG-M153 using Tapatalk

There is nothing to suggest he was from a cult or an isolated community.
There are various stories on Websleuths of people who were unidentified for years. Posters falsely assumed their families didn't care, or that no one had ever looked for them. I hope that the same mistake isn't made with Lyle Stevik. We don't know why no one has publicly come forward to identify him. In the end if we all find out that there were friends and family who missed him dearly and tried to find him, I would hate for them to come to this thread and read all these incorrect assumptions that have been posted over the past few years.
We also don't actually know anything about his culture, and how he identified ethnically. DNA is one thing, culture is a whole other thing.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

There is nothing to suggest he was from a cult or an isolated community.
There are various stories on Websleuths of people who were unidentified for years. Posters falsely assumed their families didn't care, or that no one had ever looked for them. I hope that the same mistake isn't made with Lyle Stevik. We don't know why no one has publicly come forward to identify him. In the end if we all find out that there were friends and family who missed him dearly and tried to find him, I would hate for them to come to this thread and read all these incorrect assumptions that have been posted over the past few years.
We also don't actually know anything about his culture, and how he identified ethnically. DNA is one thing, culture is a whole other thing.

The DNA project latest announcement mentioned a lot of his relatives were related to each other and that made me think of a cult I have heard about a few years ago. I believe his family is looking for him. We see it all the time with missing adults (especially older cases). The family is denied a missing persons report because the person is a legal adult and there is no immediate evidence they didn't just leave on their own accord. Cases like Marcia (Buck Skin Girl) and Jason Callahan (Grateful Doe) the parents tried to report but authorities told them they couldn't. In those cases it hurts me when the families are responded negatively by the public assuming they weren't looking when in reality they did all they could. I really hope that doesn't happen in Lyle's case.

With mentioning a cult possibility I am not trying to disrespect his family or anything (if he is from a cult his family still likely misses him), but just trying to connect puzzle pieces.

IMO I think his family is looking but is either too far away from where he was found to put 2 & 2 together or he didn't look the same from when he disappeared (the assumption from his belt that he may have lost weight, although it could be another person's/thrift store belt).

Sent from my LG-M153 using Tapatalk

 

[bluesneakers]

IMO I think his family is looking but is either too far away from where he was found to put 2 & 2 together or he didn't look the same from when he disappeared (the assumption from his belt that he may have lost weight, although it could be another person's/thrift store belt).

Sent from my LG-M153 using Tapatalk

[sbm]

I think it's also possible he'd been missing for years before he died. So too far away both in distance and in time.

 

[Roselvr]

The DNA project latest announcement mentioned a lot of his relatives were related to each other and that made me think of a cult I have heard about a few years ago. I believe his family is looking for him. We see it all the time with missing adults (especially older cases). The family is denied a missing persons report because the person is a legal adult and there is no immediate evidence they didn't just leave on their own accord. Cases like Marcia (Buck Skin Girl) and Jason Callahan (Grateful Doe) the parents tried to report but authorities told them they couldn't. In those cases it hurts me when the families are responded negatively by the public assuming they weren't looking when in reality they did all they could. I really hope that doesn't happen in Lyle's case.

With mentioning a cult possibility I am not trying to disrespect his family or anything (if he is from a cult his family still likely misses him), but just trying to connect puzzle pieces.

IMO I think his family is looking but is either too far away from where he was found to put 2 & 2 together or he didn't look the same from when he disappeared (the assumption from his belt that he may have lost weight, although it could be another person's/thrift store belt).

Sent from my LG-M153 using Tapatalk

I don't feel he or his family were part of a cult. I feel the inter-marrying was due to ethnicity and the times. I'm not sure what the time estimate is or how far back it was but it may not be recent.



It would not surprise me if someone did try to report him missing but LE refused the report. I have 2 cases in NamUs that are not showing due to no report. One, James McAleavey supposedly has one but LE will not officially file it so his profile could go online. His sister was supposed to touch base with them but was too busy. I have to touch base with her.

Another, Michelle Carnall missing from Kansas 1986, LE are refusing the report even though there's no activity on her social

I then have a 3rd case, Sharon Gallegos who's been missing since 1960, there is tons of articles saying she was kidnapped; LE have communicated with NamUs; her sister has given DNA yet her profile continues to be offline. Thankfully, Doe network was satisfied with what I submitted, her profile there is online.

Even in 2018 it is hard to get an MP report. Even if there is one filed with local LE It may not be online. One case I entered Janice Hughes, LE there do not (or did not in 2015) participate with NamUs and her case was not online. Had it not been for her daughter, I'm not sure if she'd be entered yet. In an article about Janice, there is mention of a gal named

Saundra Finney, a 20-year-old woman who disappeared from Poplar Street (Bibb County GA) on Valentines Day in 1992, has never been found; is not in NamUs or any other MP database that I've seen. I have not had time to contact LE to try to get her info and MP report to add her to NamUs

As for Lyle's ethnicity, he surely has some type of European. Posting a screen shot of his GEDmatch ethnicity and mine. Both of my parents are Hungarian, I have some Italian from a few times great grandparent

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

UPDATE ON NEW MEXICAN ROOTS:

https://www.facebook.com/DNADoeProj...009255824516/2036574253268016/?type=3&theater

Update – just to catch you all up on our first day of analysis. We will try to share what we can with you as the days go by, until it would risk identifying the family or any relatives.

Some of the closest matches we are seeing to Lyle are from the northern New Mexico area. They seem to be from established families who have lived in that region a long time. Some were originally from Mexico generations ago.

These particular families in this area – we are learning – often married among themselves, as close-knit communities often do. This is known as “endogamy” – many intermarriages between close or distant cousins occur frequently enough that individuals end up sharing a lot of DNA with each other. IF this is what we are seeing with Lyle’s matches, this means that although someone may appear to be a first cousin based on how much DNA they have in common, they may actually be a second cousin who shares great-grandparents on both sides of the family. It can be tricky to pull apart these family lines and relationships (as anyone who has worked with endogamous family groups knows). So although Lyle has many good matches, teasing apart these lines will take time.

Bumping Lyle’s isotope testing info, w/definition of endogamy.