WA WA - Samantha Sayers, 28, Vesper Peak, North Cascades, 1 August 2018

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I hope people who know Sam personally aren't involved in searches this week. I would hate for them to discover anything right now.

What policy changes does her mother want? I'm not really seeing anything that they could have done better in Sam's case!

The mother wants it to be easier for search and rescue dogs to be able to self deploy on the mountain. So far they have run into many issues with this due to Workmen’s Comp. regulations. Many search and rescue organizations will not self-deploy because it is too much of a risk for their insurance.
 
I also thought he and Sam had been together longer than they have been. From IG and such it seems it’s been about a year. That’s awesome he’s so dedicated. Poor guy probably hasn’t had a decent sleep in over a month now.:(
One of the volunteers who was there from the beginning had to return home to his own family, and he posted an emotional video. You could tell he didn't want to leave. She seems to have had just a few close friends, but boy do they love her. And they are all out there looking. And to be fair to the mom and the family, she seems to have realized they were too close to the situation and were "in the way" as she put it. And she is probably right. They will fly back out as soon as she's found.
 
Is one of the reasons she’s mad because someone called thinking it’s a body... and that it was Sam’s? Because she wants people to help if they see Sam or her gear and a body COULD be Sam but to her that’s unreasonable? Why would anyone tell the family - “hey, I think I see her body on the trail, etc”? Of course you would tell the SO. I agree with you.

It’s amazing that the blocked SAR people are still searching. I hope they find her soon. I was/am worried about her mom once he trails close and it’s blocked with snow from Oct to May.
No, she was mad because someone called the police up there and said they saw a body on the mountain, and it was a log. There is an email for sending things to investigate from the drone footage and helicopter photos, and then it is logged on to a spreadsheet. Then the drone handlers and the searchers on the ground check it out. Of course there are "squirrels" who immediately disregard the protocol and just post things like "OMG, I found Sam!" or "There's human remains" or "I see her backpack and an arm waving!". They also clog up the mom's email, and worse yet, the email of the one dude who is seeking out the smell too. They have a plan in place, they just need people to look at footage and put the info where they can find it and investigate. They seem grateful for the help, but as we see sometimes on WS, there are squirrely folk who get a little.....over zealous.
 
No he is literally detecting the scent in a particular place and will be searching there today. He seemed to be optimistic about finding the cause of the scent before the end of the week.

Edited to add that he is going to be dropped off by helicopter this morning at the top of the mountain along with a generator that will allow him to fly his drone all day.
I would think that smell would be the first thing to check out. Weird.
 
I would think that smell would be the first thing to check out. Weird.

Not when you are looking for a live person. They don't appear interested in anything that includes finding a body.


The mother wants it to be easier for search and rescue dogs to be able to self deploy on the mountain. So far they have run into many issues with this due to Workmen’s Comp. regulations. Many search and rescue organizations will not self-deploy because it is too much of a risk for their insurance.

That isn't going to change, period. Unless Mom finds some way to vastly multiple the amount of available dogs. The resources are always going to be protected and prioritized. It's just the way it is.
 
Her boyfriend posted an hour ago in the Facebook group that he's up there with the drone pilots today so I don't know about the rest of her family, but he's definitely there.
From what I can tell, he and several other searchers sleep on the mountain a lot of nights, or stay in a cabin someone donated for the search.
 
From what I can tell, he and several other searchers sleep on the mountain a lot of nights, or stay in a cabin someone donated for the search.

Yes, seems they do now. There was also a news article some time ago showing Kevin in his living room in Seattle, which they called the command center for the family and friends involved.
 
From what I can tell, he and several other searchers sleep on the mountain a lot of nights, or stay in a cabin someone donated for the search.

I just hope the person that finds Sam is someone who is emotionally and psychologically equipped to find her. I hope it's not someone who loves her.
 
I just hope the person that finds Sam is someone who is emotionally and psychologically equipped to find her. I hope it's not someone who loves her.
Missing hiker in Germany, Jeff Freiheit was found by his own mother and his friends. She apparently kept up with the search after SAR stood down. I found it sort of soothing to think of his being found by loved ones. I understand your point though. Hope they’ll handle it as well as Jeff’s mom. Jmo.
 
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The mother wants it to be easier for search and rescue dogs to be able to self deploy on the mountain. So far they have run into many issues with this due to Workmen’s Comp. regulations. Many search and rescue organizations will not self-deploy because it is too much of a risk for their insurance.

I understand she wants to do something but I don't think jeopardizing insurance for volunteers who risk their lives to rescue people is really the hill to die on here. Hundreds of people are selflessly giving their time and risking their lives to help. If she wants to do something she can help raise money and get federal funding for non-profit rescue organizations.
 
I understand she wants to do something but I don't think jeopardizing insurance for volunteers who risk their lives to rescue people is really the hill to die on here. Hundreds of people are selflessly giving their time and risking their lives to help. If she wants to do something she can help raise money and get federal funding for non-profit rescue organizations.

Exactly!
 
Her mom also said that the Francis Foundation will be on the mountain Friday and Saturday and then returning to Minnesota to assemble larger teams. Dogs will be out too. Francis met with sherriff’s department today to clarify things from the initial search.

She also said she knows Sam is coming home alive because any other option is not acceptable, simply not acceptable.
 
I'm responding to these parts together. Samantha's boyfriend was the one who identified this as being the trail up to Vesper Peak. You can see this in the comments on the original video. He is familiar with the area, and is also the one who made the main map on the findsamsayers.com website. While I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility for him to have been mistaken, I don't think that it's likely.

Futhermore, the maps that are shown there are for laypeople as you mentioned, and were made by the boyfriend Kevin Dares and his family, who have a good amount of experience in the area, so it's not just random inexperienced people that are filling in the map. This is to encourage witnesses to come forward and to examine their footage. It was also intended to help people who wanted to search, but couldn't read the actual search and rescue maps. The maps below the one that gives the timeline are the maps that were released by the sheriff's department and the family as the search was ongoing.

There are more official maps out there on the findsamsayers facebook page that were given to the boyfriend after he met with them last week. There is also an official Sam Sayers rescue group (this is private, you have to ask to join), which is only for people who can assist in the actual search. The maps are posted there as well. Based on what I have seen of them, and overlaying them with the laypeople maps, they pretty much line up.



I finally had a moment to go back through some news articles, and the most recent of them do NOT place her at the summit at noon. Witnesses say she arrived at the summit at 3:00pm. Here are two such articles:

From August 27th, 2018:

Seattle woman still missing after not returning from hike nearly three weeks ago

From August 20th, 2018:
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/search-for-missing-hiker-nears-3-weeks-as-family-clings-to-hope/

Of note, in the NBC news article, they mentioned that the "lunch witness" saw her twice: once while eating lunch (supposedly around noon) and once while he was on the summit around 3:00 p.m. However, this article still contains the inaccuracy that he ate lunch with her (this isn't true as confirmed by the Sheriff's Department).

The Herald mentions: "A small rock climbing group bumped into her just before 3 p.m. at the summit. A man eating lunch at the top noticed Sayers, too. He did not eat with her, as the sheriff’s office had reported earlier, O’Keefe clarified Friday. That witness has been working with deputies to pinpoint her last known movement, possibly to the southeast."

The Herald is a more local newspaper, which tend to report better on these kinds of incidents, so I'm inclined to believe their version. However, in any recently published article, it is the 3:00pm summit that has been published.



I also had some time to look this up. The only thing I could find was on the family's page, which said they were able to "ping movement" on her phone. Here is the link to the Heavy article that mentions this Samantha ‘Sam’ Sayers Missing: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com, since I don't know if posting a link is acceptable.

Phone pings can be fickle things as we've seen in many cases. If the only two pings they have are the ones that are on the maps they posted, I stand by that that likely does not represent movement. The towers are too close together for that to be movement. If they had say 7-8 of them all moving in one direction, then yes, that would look more like movement to me.

One interesting thing about this is that it isn't mentioned in any media reports after August 9th, whereas I think this is very important information. Still, it would suggest that Sam was not able to use her phone to call for help, as you pointed out. Her family mentioned the phone was in a white case, so it could have had some extra protection from the elements.

That may or may not be the case RE the time and what she was actually doing on the snowfield, but my point is really that these aren't original sources and the newspapers (even the one you express confidence in) aren't providing original sources either; "this witness; that witness," without further specific descriptors, isn't a cite to an original source - it's vague and unacceptable, as far as I'm concerned.

I have nothing one way or the other with the respect to Sayer's partner (although some suggest he's a possible culprit - I doubt that's the case, but given his position there, too, his word "on the facts" certainly isn't the last word by a long stretch - he has a "conflict of interest") . But, again, my main point is that he isn't an original source either (unless he's talking about what time he himself did what and when) - and he hasn't provided a cite, anymore than the newspapers have. If he did, it wouldn't even matter what his position is with respect to conventional culpability (i.e. "the boyfriend done it")

You also originally posted this information RE the website map activity-timeline as coming from the Sheriff's office - and I pointed out that it did not. The Sheriff's office might be an original source if it came as a direct statement released from their office, but as we've already seen, their information has been inaccurate, too - they released an inaccurate timeline - and the newspapers have reported inaccurately regarding the Sheriff's office on top of that.

A number of people w SAR experience have since told me, too, that our newspapers are sadly and notoriously inaccurate when it comes to SARs.

Regardless, I guess I'm old-fashioned. Always look for the original source. Accept nothing less. In the meantime, be comfortable with not knowing.
 
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I understand she wants to do something but I don't think jeopardizing insurance for volunteers who risk their lives to rescue people is really the hill to die on here. Hundreds of people are selflessly giving their time and risking their lives to help. If she wants to do something she can help raise money and get federal funding for non-profit rescue organizations.
I'm an insurance billing person, so I hope you'll forgive me if I don't side with the insurance companies on this point. If the search and rescues have paid exorbitant amounts for liability and worker's comp insurance, then they should just be able to go about doing whatever it is they do and not worry about coverage. That's the whole point of insurance. It is not just to make the insurance company money and then for them to figure out how to never pay out. There is no free money for selling "nothing". Inactivity due to insurance "issues" is definitely changeable, and it should be. Clearly the insurance companies are causing some serious lack of good judgement calls in these settings. moo.
 
No, she was mad because someone called the police up there and said they saw a body on the mountain, and it was a log. There is an email for sending things to investigate from the drone footage and helicopter photos, and then it is logged on to a spreadsheet. Then the drone handlers and the searchers on the ground check it out. Of course there are "squirrels" who immediately disregard the protocol and just post things like "OMG, I found Sam!" or "There's human remains" or "I see her backpack and an arm waving!". They also clog up the mom's email, and worse yet, the email of the one dude who is seeking out the smell too. They have a plan in place, they just need people to look at footage and put the info where they can find it and investigate. They seem grateful for the help, but as we see sometimes on WS, there are squirrely folk who get a little.....over zealous.
Gotcha. Live I’ve said before, I can’t even read the stuff on their page. When I go to it it’s posts from two days ago, I refresh and it’s one post from one day ago, one from today and three from last week. I don’t know how they can shuffle through any of it. Thanks for clarifying!
 
Gotcha. Live I’ve said before, I can’t even read the stuff on their page. When I go to it it’s posts from two days ago, I refresh and it’s one post from one day ago, one from today and three from last week. I don’t know how they can shuffle through any of it. Thanks for clarifying!
That page is a mess. They asked at the very beginning that followers stop posting prayers, today, love and light, etc on every single post. They wanted the important posts with questions and answers to be easy to find but followers can’t help themselves and all I ever see is hundreds of prayers. I guess they started a separate group for the searchers. I hope that group has more info but I myself didn’t join because it should be for people who can actually help with the search.
 
That page is a mess. They asked at the very beginning that followers stop posting prayers, today, love and light, etc on every single post. They wanted the important posts with questions and answers to be easy to find but followers can’t help themselves and all I ever see is hundreds of prayers. I guess they started a separate group for the searchers. I hope that group has more info but I myself didn’t join because it should be for people who can actually help with the search.
Facebook comments are like that for every site. They are never in order and appear randomly. It’s frustrating when one wants to read in some sort of chronological order. Hard to follow for sure. And I know people mean well, but the “prayers and hopes and wishes” comments really do throw a cog into the works.
 
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