WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #4

[JessInOly]

In agreement with justme96 as to nicknames. We've got nicknames for towns here. Silly new person question: How do we PM someone? Need to send a PM BeanE Thanks....

 

[Calliope]

Key fob has a hatch release. I think there is also one in the car on the dash or near window controls. Why it was open - don't know.

Does that unlock the hatch or actually raise it? Mine doesn't work from inside the vehicle. Does it on the caravan ?

 

[Calliope]

Here is some more info on scent items from a different SAR handler:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ent+items+be+handled&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


What makes a bad scent article?
A “bad scent article” doesn’t have the scent of the subject you are looking for, or has been contaminated with a competing scent that confuses the dog. This contamination could be from “residual” sources, scent falling from the air or transferring from another article, or “direct” meaning someone other than the person you seek touched the scent article. Example of bad scent articles: Clean laundry. Shared clothing / linens. Item handled by someone other than the subject, something that has not been in contact with the subject recently.

Many times a scent article is collected by a family member for the teams to use, without knowing that this is not an accepted practice, so it is often the best to try to obtain an item yourself, but always thanking them for the effort!

How do I collect scent guide/article?
When in doubt, don't. Let the dog handler collect it or a trained member of the search team that has been taught how to properly collect the scent articles without contaminating it too much. If the situtation dictates that you must collect one, choose an item that you believe will contain a large amount of the persons scent. If the area has been thoroughly contaminated by previous search efforts or other family members, look under furniture and between mattresses. Take precautions to avoid contamination of the item as the more scents that are on the item, the more the dog has to work through to find the correct scent of the missing person. Remember that the person collecting the article is contaminating it! Handle the items in as short a time as possible; avoid leaning over the item. ALWAYS use gloves (i.e. latex) especially if you have to spend time sorting or moving items around to find a suitable article. Use clean tongs / tweezers to pick up the item if possible as it will keep the item as far from 'your' scent rafts as possible. If possible make multiple scent guides form one item by, cutting it and bagging them separately ( if the item is NOT needed by Law Enforcement as evidence ). Most search teams recommend that you use a zip-loc style bag ( without perfumes ) as they are small and see through. Seal bag as soon as possible after collecting item.

This sounds like a major screw up.

 

[Calliope]

Hmmmm.... according to this, LE or the dog handlers went and got the scent items:

Last night they brought blood hounds over, and took scent item.

http://www.skyvalleychronicle.com/B...-LUCK-BR-In-finding-missing-woman-and-her-son


Anybody have a link to RS going and getting the items?

BeanE

I remember reading an article (or hearing in an interview) where he shuttled back and forth and it was mentioned he brought items for the search. I have no idea where, I'd have to go digging for that.

 

[RubyRed]

This sounds like a major screw up.

We don't know that LE or the dog handler were incompetent. In fact I highly doubt they were. moo

 

[lilcatt]

Hmmmm.... according to this, LE or the dog handlers went and got the scent items:

Last night they brought blood hounds over, and took scent item.

http://www.skyvalleychronicle.com/B...-LUCK-BR-In-finding-missing-woman-and-her-son


Anybody have a link to RS going and getting the items?

BeanE

I read where it said RS made several trips back to his house on his motorcycle to bring items with their sent. I mentioned this on one of my posting that he had given the items to LE saying they had shantina's and Az sent on it. I ask at that time how do we really know if it did. No one responded to me. Do we have proof that LE went to the house and pick up items or are we just taking RS word for it. Did they use scent dogs at the house where she used the phone or are they just taking the people's word she left. Did dogs hit around the car?? all these questions need to be answered. If you have links that answer these questions, please post.

 

[Jules71]

I remember reading an article (or hearing in an interview) where he shuttled back and forth and it was mentioned he brought items for the search. I have no idea where, I'd have to go digging for that.

I do remember that also, but not sure from where. On his website he says they came and got it. ???

 

[BeanE]

I read where it said RS made several trips back to his house on his motorcycle to bring items with their sent. I mentioned this on one of my posting that he had given the items to LE saying they had shantina's and Az sent on it. I ask at that time how do we really know if it did. No one responded to me. Do we have proof that LE went to the house and pick up items or are we just taking RS word for it. Did they use scent dogs at the house where she used the phone or are they just taking the people's word she left. Did dogs hit around the car?? all these questions need to be answered. If you have links that answer these questions, please post.

We have no reason to doubt RS. He is not a POI. He is not a suspect. He has cooperated fully with LE.

 

[BeanE]

We don't know that LE or the dog handler were incompetent. In fact I highly doubt they were. moo

You're right. We have no indication whatever that they were incompetent.

 

[lilcatt]

Does any one have the link showing the house she stopped at. I saw and interview with the man, he was not elderly

 

[Momma3Boys]

Hi guys and gals! Not sure exactly how I wound up here.. but here I am. I heard the story on the news when it happened, and it captivated me. Normally I don't pay that much attention to these sad stories, but I think it was the similar age we share, and the fact that my oldest is a cub scout and seems much like little Az did and just the sheer mystery of it all..

Anyways, I believe I'm caught up on the threads, I apologize if anything I said has been said before (it's hard to keep a clear mind with the 7 year old and his 10 and 20 month old baby brothers!)

I have a few questions/comments/observations

1) Do we know for sure it's a size 13 mans shoe? My son is 7 1/2 and wears a 12.

2) I'm clueless as to this stuff, could the autopsy performed on little Az determine his time of death? Can you tell that with drownings? And if so, do we know that information?

3) Regarding RS. If you look on his myspace page, which hasn't been updated since 11/13/09, you can see nothing but a man in love with her and Azriel. When you read the about me section. I doubt that changed in a few short months. But she did have 2 graphics comments posted on his myspace, which are probably irrelevant because I'm sure I'd post similar things to my husband, but one "being unstable and bit*** is all part of my mystique" And one that says "I'm so sorry, please forgive me" although his comment section doesn't have a date/time for those..unless that's a feature you need to login to see ( I forgot my myspace acct info)

4) Could the comments on her bio on myspace..
"he paranormal is kind of a fascination for me. I like ghost stories, cultural beliefs, vampires, werewolves, witches, you know weird stuff like that. I recently started learning photography and am beginning to like it a lot! -snip"
have anything to do with the trip to the beach? Any ghost story legends down there? Any UFO sightings, anything like that?? Could, for whatever reason they decided not to see the stepdad, have decided to go down there as an adventure to look for "ghosts" or something like that? If you get what I'm saying. A Mommy-Son late night, goofy adventure

And do we know if she had a camera with her? I remember reading the moon wasn't visible that night, but could they have been down there to photograph something or something.. I dunno. I'm just so captivated by this story and not knowing what happened..

 

[Calliope]

I do remember that also, but not sure from where. On his website he says they came and got it. ???

"Last night they brought blood hounds over, and took scent item."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ns.com/+robb+simmons&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

To me, that sounds like he had brought the scent items to them. Why would LE bring their blood hounds to Silverdale?

 

[Calliope]

We have no reason to doubt RS. He is not a POI. He is not a suspect. He has cooperated fully with LE.

The question is, how did LE obtain the scent items. It's clear there IS a specific protocol. This isn't casting aspersions at RS. A woman is missing and a little boy is dead. I think it's entirely appropriate to ask if the scent items could have been contaminated or otherwise insufficient for the dogs to pick up their trail. It doesn't mean it was done intentionally, either. I don't think I'd trust myself to do it entirely by the protocol, I'd want the experts there.

 

[justme96]

http://www.facebook.com/photos.php?...group.php?v=wall&ref=mf&gid=10150133110780096

The family is having a service for SS. They believe she is gone as well.

 

[BeanE]

The question is, how did LE obtain the scent items. It's clear there IS a specific protocol. This isn't casting aspersions at RS. A woman is missing and a little boy is dead. I think it's entirely appropriate to ask if the scent items could have been contaminated or otherwise insufficient for the dogs to pick up their trail. It doesn't mean it was done intentionally, either. I don't think I'd trust myself to do it entirely by the protocol, I'd want the experts there.

Well our verified dog handler should be able to give us some insight into whether it was a problem, if RS did get the items.

Maybe we could put together one post with all our questions, and then PM her the link to that post, to make it easier for her? I'm trying to think of the best way to do it so she doesn't have to page all through the thread.

Ideas?

 

[BeanE]

http://www.facebook.com/photos.php?...group.php?v=wall&ref=mf&gid=10150133110780096

The family is having a service for SS. They believe she is gone as well.

Oh how sad. Thank you so much for posting that, justme, and letting us know.

 

[Vibram]

So I am new here. So Hi all. So some thoughts occurred to me reading this thread and watching the news and reading the newpapers.

Timeline:
She leaves Silverdale at 4:15pm. We do not know if she took the direct route down 16 to I5 or if she took 106. Why would she take the 106? Twanho State Park which is 39 minutes from her house. A fair bet that they may have known the park. Also a fair bet that they stopped there and MAYBE had a snack and enjoyed the scenery for a while, two hours but it is a large park. She would have arrived at the park at 4:54 pm.

If she left about 2 hours later that would put her at the Pantry at about 7:50 pm. at which time she got a snack and alcohol.

At this point the fact that she had a medical issue become apparent. According to ABC and Examiner she had a medical condition that her significant other was not concerned with.

So then the question becomes this: What causes impaired judgment, confusion, coordination issues, and forgetfulness?

It sounds like a brain issue and the fact that she hit her head possibly more than once if the eye-witness account of Azriel's statement is to be believed. The first time some one sees some one hit there head during a seizure it is traumatic. The other times you tend not to mind it so much. Point is she may have had multiple seizures. Maybe the fall was not a fall.

The only way to account for the inconsistency in time is for one of two things to be true. One she had someone telling her what to do, or two she was impaired in some way and did not know what was going on.

I am favoring version 2 here because her son had no wounds and he drowned. He could have gone for a swim with his mother during a hallucination and they both drowned. Or he could have drowned and she left to get help.

Bottom line is this. If it is a medical disorder wherein her judgment is impaired then she could be anywhere in Olympia or one of the Islands. She doesn't have money or a cell phone or a car. She does have an overnight bag.

The farther fetched option is that she drove around getting up the nerve to kill her son and then to meet up with someone that no one knew about. She bought the wine for liquid courage and then ditched the van because it was stuck.

Just my two cents.

 

[BeanE]

Welcome to Websleuths, Momma3Boys and Vibram!

Good to have you here

 

[Calliope]

Well our verified dog handler should be able to give us some insight into whether it was a problem, if RS did get the items.

Maybe we could put together one post with all our questions, and then PM her the link to that post, to make it easier for her? I'm trying to think of the best way to do it so she doesn't have to page all through the thread.

Ideas?

That's an excellent idea

Do you know if she's in LE? I remember reading an article during the Aveion Lewis search about volunteer handlers being used, and they said they'd received training (of course). I wonder how that training compares to what police handlers receive.

My questions...

Is it common practice to allow someone outside of LE to obtain the scent items?

Other than cigarette smoke and coming in direct contact with the item, how else can it become contaminated? If Shantina smoked, would that contaminate an item that otherwise would be ok to use?

I was thinking about what the above said about 'shared' items; it would seem to me to be rather difficult to find an item that had no contact whatsoever with someone else in the household. If she shared a bed, that rules out linens. You couldn't get a shirt from the clothes hamper unless it contained only her clothes. Shoes would seem to be something unlikely to have been worn or contaminated by others... What items does LE usually want to use?

How long does the scent last on the scene? Would it be too late now (2 weeks later) to attempt to track the beach and surrounding area? Even when done just a couple of days after they disappeared, would the tides have washed away the scent?

I'm sure I'll come up with more questions, but I appreciate you doing this.

 

[floridaheather]

So I am new here. So Hi all. So some thoughts occurred to me reading this thread and watching the news and reading the newpapers.

Timeline:
She leaves Silverdale at 4:15pm. We do not know if she took the direct route down 16 to I5 or if she took 106. Why would she take the 106? Twanho State Park which is 39 minutes from her house. A fair bet that they may have known the park. Also a fair bet that they stopped there and MAYBE had a snack and enjoyed the scenery for a while, two hours but it is a large park. She would have arrived at the park at 4:54 pm.

If she left about 2 hours later that would put her at the Pantry at about 7:50 pm. at which time she got a snack and alcohol.

At this point the fact that she had a medical issue become apparent. According to ABC and Examiner she had a medical condition that her significant other was not concerned with.

So then the question becomes this: What causes impaired judgment, confusion, coordination issues, and forgetfulness?

It sounds like a brain issue and the fact that she hit her head possibly more than once if the eye-witness account of Azriel's statement is to be believed. The first time some one sees some one hit there head during a seizure it is traumatic. The other times you tend not to mind it so much. Point is she may have had multiple seizures. Maybe the fall was not a fall.

The only way to account for the inconsistency in time is for one of two things to be true. One she had someone telling her what to do, or two she was impaired in some way and did not know what was going on.

I am favoring version 2 here because her son had no wounds and he drowned. He could have gone for a swim with his mother during a hallucination and they both drowned. Or he could have drowned and she left to get help.

Bottom line is this. If it is a medical disorder wherein her judgment is impaired then she could be anywhere in Olympia or one of the Islands. She doesn't have money or a cell phone or a car. She does have an overnight bag.

The farther fetched option is that she drove around getting up the nerve to kill her son and then to meet up with someone that no one knew about. She bought the wine for liquid courage and then ditched the van because it was stuck.

Just my two cents.

thanks for this. others have settled for her being a drunk & Az saying that she hit her head as a cover for her drunkness & behavior. I absolutely think she could have been having a neurological event. we don't know if she didn't have a brain tumor for that matter. she could have been having a stroke. i had a mini-stroke & my vision was affected & i was as i woke up one morning. i knew i was in a familar place but couldn't remember that it was home or even my husbands name. it was after a trip to the eye doctor and his insistence that i go to the hospital that i was diagnosed. i was actually having problems keeping my balance & staggering while walking. people who have multiple sclerosis can have episodes of memory lapse, gait issues, in appropriate emotional responses. neurological events can affect everything in your body & often what others perceive is outwardly "bizarre"