WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #4

[Lipin One]

Key fob has a hatch release. I think there is also one in the car on the dash or near window controls. Why it was open - don't know.

All remote latch openers I've seen only undo the lock, they don't raise the hatch or trunk all the way up.

The van in the photographs circling around here had both the hatchback and the side door WIDE open, not just opened a crack.

IMO

 

[RubyRed]

So I am new here. So Hi all. So some thoughts occurred to me reading this thread and watching the news and reading the newpapers.

Timeline:
She leaves Silverdale at 4:15pm. We do not know if she took the direct route down 16 to I5 or if she took 106. Why would she take the 106? Twanho State Park which is 39 minutes from her house. A fair bet that they may have known the park. Also a fair bet that they stopped there and MAYBE had a snack and enjoyed the scenery for a while, two hours but it is a large park. She would have arrived at the park at 4:54 pm.

If she left about 2 hours later that would put her at the Pantry at about 7:50 pm. at which time she got a snack and alcohol.

At this point the fact that she had a medical issue become apparent. According to ABC and Examiner she had a medical condition that her significant other was not concerned with.

So then the question becomes this: What causes impaired judgment, confusion, coordination issues, and forgetfulness?

Just my two cents.

snipped bbm

Do you have a link for that statement.TIA

 

[Jules71]

All remote latch openers I've seen only undo the lock, they don't raise the hatch or trunk all the way up.

The van in the photographs circling around here had both the hatchback and the side door WIDE open, not just opened a crack.

IMO

I used to have a car (not this model of van) that had a button on the fob and it opened the hatch/trunk area.

 

[SMK]

One thing I had wondered about, and if this is silly, forgive me for it in advance. But I always wondered why at first the headlines were saying "Smiley's Family Fears Foul Play" and "Missing Woman's Family Fear Abduction", but as soon as Azriel was found, no one feared that any more. I am just curious as to why? There have been cases where a woman is abducted and her child is dumped or abandoned. Do not mean to confuse the issues, or muddle the conversation. Just a thought. Maybe I do not grasp all the facts which absolutely rule this out. Don't mean to butt in if this is irrelevant.

 

[Lipin One]

Timeline:
She leaves Silverdale at 4:15pm. We do not know if she took the direct route down 16 to I5 or if she took 106. Why would she take the 106? Twanho State Park which is 39 minutes from her house. A fair bet that they may have known the park. Also a fair bet that they stopped there and MAYBE had a snack and enjoyed the scenery for a while, two hours but it is a large park. She would have arrived at the park at 4:54 pm.

Only that her fiance's web page and the media said she left the home at 5:00pm.

I hope LE has verified this by more than the man's account on the subject.

At this point the fact that she had a medical issue become apparent. According to ABC and Examiner she had a medical condition that her significant other was not concerned with.

So then the question becomes this: What causes impaired judgment, confusion, coordination issues, and forgetfulness?

She could've just been tipsy with the wine, and stuff.

But, there could be other causes.

A stroke, for example, can cause those symptoms... plus an arm or a leg gets numb. She's way young to have a stroke, but it is possible.

A concussion that has caused bleeding in the brain.

A drug.

Extreme stress.

Strong migraines.

Diabetic lows/highs.

Not sleeping for very long periods of time, and exhaustion.

Of course, being lost in an unknown place in the middle of the night with a hungry child, maybe having hit another car while being on probation for a prior DUI conviction, with a half bottle of wine in the car, can make a person so nervous to appear drunk.

IMO

 

[nnglas]

When she made the call to her family, did they say she maybe sounded confused or intoxicated? And did the neighbors say she appeared confused or intoxicated at all?

 

[slowpoke]

All remote latch openers I've seen only undo the lock, they don't raise the hatch or trunk all the way up.

The van in the photographs circling around here had both the hatchback and the side door WIDE open, not just opened a crack.

IMO

I wasn't familiar with how these power doors/hatches work, since I never had a car with the power doors, but I found a YouTube of a 2005 Dodge Caravan, and the guy demonstrates how there are 3 separate buttons on the overhead you can push to open each side door, and the hatch.

If you want to see this, it is at around 0:26 in the clip. It does open the hatch fully.

(Note: Although this is the same year as the one SS was driving, I have no idea what features the van she was driving had.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSCVEZTW8ks

 

[marcyjoy]

One thing I had wondered about, and if this is silly, forgive me for it in advance. But I always wondered why at first the headlines were saying "Smiley's Family Fears Foul Play" and "Missing Woman's Family Fear Abduction", but as soon as Azriel was found, no one feared that any more. I am just curious as to why? There have been cases where a woman is abducted and her child is dumped or abandoned. Do not mean to confuse the issues, or muddle the conversation. Just a thought. Maybe I do not grasp all the facts which absolutely rule this out. Don't mean to butt in if this is irrelevant.

I'm sure they did have some thoughts about that early on...they were hoping for anything and grasping just as everyone was. Also, the media plays up those angles for readers/viewers. In my opinion, given the area they were in (quiet, residential) it would be a little far fetched to think that someone overpowered both of them and kidnapped or some other form of crime against them. The sheer noise alone would be risky. I think once they found little Az's body, it seems clear what his mother's fate was.

 

[sarx]

Well our verified dog handler should be able to give us some insight into whether it was a problem, if RS did get the items.

Maybe we could put together one post with all our questions, and then PM her the link to that post, to make it easier for her? I'm trying to think of the best way to do it so she doesn't have to page all through the thread.

Ideas?

Hi BeanE and all,
I am here and hopefully I can help answer some questions. I've read a few pages back, and have a little overview of the case.
What I seem to have missed is--when were the dogs called in? Trying to get a full picture before I start commenting.

 

[goldie finch]

All remote latch openers I've seen only undo the lock, they don't raise the hatch or trunk all the way up.

The van in the photographs circling around here had both the hatchback and the side door WIDE open, not just opened a crack.

IMO

We have a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan. We have a remote key which will open the sliding doors, hatch and lock or unlock the doors and raise the hatch. You can also push a button above the windshield to open the doors and hatch.

Ours was supposedly "loaded", but did not come with gps.

Goldie

 

[SMK]

I'm sure they did have some thoughts about that early on...they were hoping for anything and grasping just as everyone was. Also, the media plays up those angles for readers/viewers. In my opinion, given the area they were in (quiet, residential) it would be a little far fetched to think that someone overpowered both of them and kidnapped or some other form of crime against them. The sheer noise alone would be risky. I think once they found little Az's body, it seems clear what his mother's fate was.

Yes, makes sense. I think I had meant if she had hooked up with someone, and they had been the one to drive her down to the water's edge. But yes, I see what you mean, thanks.

 

[RubyRed]

Hi BeanE and all,
I am here and hopefully I can help answer some questions. I've read a few pages back, and have a little overview of the case.
What I seem to have missed is--when were the dogs called in? Trying to get a full picture before I start commenting.

Thurs., March. 18, 2010

A boat crew searched the Boston Harbor area near Olympia using two dogs that tried to pick up the scent of 29-year-old Shantina "Kat" Smiley of Silverdale and her son Azriel Carver. Dogs also searched the roads and area surrounding the beach.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35920369

This is the earliest I can find. I believe Wednesday. Anyone else find an earlier article?

 

[Lipin One]

There hasn't been any suicide notes found, has it?

Any diaries telling of unbearable situations and hints of ending her and her son's lifes?

Had she confided on anyone of too-stressful relations which she was unable to deal with?

There is no "typical" suicide, but it's fair to ask... how many people commit suicide by driving a van backwards into the beach, waiting for the freezing water to rise in a few hours, while drinking half a bottle of wine?

I do not think this was suicide.

 

[sarx]

Is there a timeline somewhere of the events?

 

[SMK]

There hasn't been any suicide notes found, has it?

Any diaries telling of unbearable situations and hints of ending her and her son's lifes?

Had she confided on anyone of too-stressful relations which she was unable to deal with?

There is no "typical" suicide, but it's fair to ask... how many people commit suicide by driving a van backwards into the beach, waiting for the freezing water to rise in a few hours, while drinking half a bottle of wine?

I do not think this was suicide.

I agree. And her life was not horrible enough to cause a double-suicide, unless she had some inner demon we don't know of. But it seems unlikely.

 

[Lipin One]

I wasn't familiar with how these power doors/hatches work, since I never had a car with the power doors, but I found a YouTube of a 2005 Dodge Caravan, and the guy demonstrates how there are 3 separate buttons on the overhead you can push to open each side door, and the hatch.

If you want to see this, it is at around 0:26 in the clip. It does open the hatch fully.

(Note: Although this is the same year as the one SS was driving, I have no idea what features the van she was driving had.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSCVEZTW8ks

Okay, thanks.

I stand corrected. I'll take yas word for it, some remote latch openers open the hatch or door all the way.

Just that those I had seen just undo the lock.

 

[seekingsusan]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011355380_apwamomsonmissingsearch.html

This link says that bloodhounds were used on Monday the 15th.

There is no unbiased timeline that I am aware of.

 

[slowpoke]

Thurs., March. 18, 2010


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35920369

This is the earliest I can find. I believe Wednesday. Anyone else find an earlier article?

This article dated 3/15 says "Chamberlain said a dive team and scent dogs were searching for the two on Monday". That would be the day after the van was found the day prior (on Sunday 3/14).

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d15-News-Update-Search-for-missing-mom-and-8year-old-son-continues-Monday-dive-team-scent-dogs

 

[belimom]

I wasn't familiar with how these power doors/hatches work, since I never had a car with the power doors, but I found a YouTube of a 2005 Dodge Caravan, and the guy demonstrates how there are 3 separate buttons on the overhead you can push to open each side door, and the hatch.

If you want to see this, it is at around 0:26 in the clip. It does open the hatch fully.

(Note: Although this is the same year as the one SS was driving, I have no idea what features the van she was driving had.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSCVEZTW8ks

We have a minivan and there are three different "trim levels":
- basic: no automatic doors
- mid: automatic passenger sliding door (on key FOB)
- high: two automatic sliding doors AND automatic hatch (all on key FOB)

 

[sarx]

Here's the first interesting thing. Why not use the car as your scent article? It's a common and effective practice. You use sterile gauze, swipe the seat and there you go. I don't know why they would have gone anywhere when they had the car for both the PLS and scent.
It is unwise to have anyone but trained personnel fetch the scent article. It is all too common practice, however, to let family bring something to use.