WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

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George Marcel Lutas has a white spot of hair on the back right side of his head though. I assume he could've colored it though.
 
Roselvr unfortunately i have no idea which photos were used but it really looks like Carl's ones.
He looks so cute in that regresion pic.
It´s incredible why nobody came looking for him till now.
 
persimmon said:
Just some observations and jmoo.

1. The large clothing--During the time period it was common for young men to wear very large jeans down around their thighs or hips etc, that were belted generally to keep from falling off. Could be LS had worn that style and maybe outgrown it but still had lots of large jeans.

2. Joyce Carol Oates is a very academic writer, meaning she is very well read in universities. LS was not a blue collar guy imo, but I would bet money a college educated individual. I absolutely believe he chose the name purposefully and it reflects a sense of hopelessness...meaninglessness about life.

3. I know he only had a toothbrush and toothpaste but he either threw out a razor or had not traveled far because his face was very clean shaven with only a slight 5 o'clock shadow visible in a few spots.

4. This is a long shot but I wonder if searching for missing persons who left their wallets behind would produce anything?

5. Since his suicide occured in the days following 9-11 it might have been possible for him to still travel without documents? But I doubt this.

6. He is very particular almost anal it seems.

7. Whatever his ethnic makeup, it is a more hairless type. Native American would fit that profile but I dont necessarily believe that to be the case. Nonetheless, he has little visible body hair.

8. I think circumcision rules out eastern european largely, but I see a definite possibility in LS being Jewish. Tends to match the hairless profile too. He has several features I would associate with Jewish men from certain parts of the world.

All jmo
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I agree with you that the reference to Oates hints at a university student or possibly a high school/college English teacher--something like that (is Oates taught in high school does anyone know?) Braces also indicate middle to upper middle class, and are a little atypical for a Native American kid unless he was from a suburban or off-res family, or possibly adopted or living with his white parent. It would also be worth considering sexual orientation and whether this played a role in deepening depression. As for misspelling of Stevik: did he have a student, and did that student misspell the character's name this way? If LS is a teacher/educated reader, and if the character was important enough to him to use as his own name, it doesn't seem as if he'd misspell it by accident.

Again, Native accents are often misheard as "Canadian," but here's one additional Canadian element I hadn't seen: "Between 1968 and 1978, Oates taught at the University of Windsor in Canada, just across the Detroit river." (http://arts.princeton.edu/people/profiles/jcsmith/)

"At the University of Wisconsin–Madison, Oates met Raymond J. Smith, a fellow graduate student, whom she married in 1961. ...Together the couple founded The Ontario Review, a literary magazine, in 1974, on which Oates served as associate editor. The magazine's mission, according to Smith, the editor, was to bridge the literary and artistic culture of the U.S. and Canada: "We tried to do this by publishing writers and artists from both countries, as well as essays and reviews of an intercultural nature." (Wiki)

"The use of language is all we have to pit against death and silence.'' (Joyce Carol Oates, accepting the 1969 National Book Award)
 
Yes, and Stevi(c)k is a name that occurs fairly often in the Buffalo-Hamilton-Toronto area. Polish immigrants, mostly Catholic.


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Lack of luggage may indicate that he was actually living nearby - any chance he was from (or had been staying with someone from) the Quinault Nation, on whose land the only two hotels in Amanda Park are located? My apologies if this has already been covered--trying to catch up. Both those hotels are near Lake Quinault, a sacred place to that Nation, and possibly a logical place to choose to die, for that reason (if he's Quinault).
 
FWIW, August 2001 was a very, very painful time for the Quinault people, a culmination (or so they felt at the time) of their age-old fight with the Chinook people over land rights. The Bureau of Indian Affairs had ruled in August 2001 against the Quinaults, a decision which would have in effect given Chinooks equal control over the Quinault reservation. In other words, the Quinault tribe had just gone from 100% ownership of its land, water and fishing rights, to 50%. The timing here is pretty interesting, as any of you who are from Native communities (or have worked there) know--and you also know how passionate and contentious these tribal politics are. Imagine Texans being told half of their state is being given to Mexico, and you'll come pretty close. The thought of a young Quinault man committing suicide over this decision--especially if he were an educated tribal member who'd been involved in negotiations between the tribes and BIA--is not hard to imagine. There was one, last, thin chance that the Quinaults could win, consisting of several remaining points that were being referred to the BIA for review; there would be no immediate decision, nor guarantee thereof, for 120 days. What if 9/11 removed any remaining hope Lyle had of his tribe holding onto its land? With the entire government now mired in post-9/11 investigations, the chances of individual tribal sovereignty disputes getting resolution was pretty slim.

Ironically, the Quinaults WOULD win. In July 2002, the BIA reversed the previous administration's recognition of the Chinook, and effectively wiped that tribe from the face of the earth--something Lyle would never live to know.
 
Zephyranth said:
Lack of luggage may indicate that he was actually living nearby - any chance he was from (or had been staying with someone from) the Quinault Nation, on whose land the only two hotels in Amanda Park are located? My apologies if this has already been covered--trying to catch up. Both those hotels are near Lake Quinault, a sacred place to that Nation, and possibly a logical place to choose to die, for that reason (if he's Quinault).
Click to expand...

The isotope testing revealed he likely did not spend is childhood in the area.

The enamel oxygen isotopes predict that the decedent may have spent his childhood:

(1) In isolated portions of some West States, including California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, or Oklahoma; or

(2) In several Midwest States, including regions along the shores of the Great Lakes; and

(3) In portions of some South and Northeast States (Kentucky, the Tennessee/North Carolina border, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and coastal portions of New Hampshire and Maine).

Interpretations of these oxygen isotope data are meant to help guide further investigations, but should not be taken as definitive in the absence of other supporting evidence.

What appears evident from the stable isotope data is that for the 12-month period prior to death the individual was moving or traveling between at least three different regions, residing in potentially two regions for extended periods of time. The stable isotope data also suggest that the decedent likely did not spend his childhood in Amanda Park, Washington or the greater Pacific Northwest region. Based on the combination of data from the hair and teeth, it is possible that the individual returned to the region where he lived during childhood within the 12-month period prior to death.
 
EmiLove832 said:
The isotope testing revealed he likely did not spend is childhood in the area.

The enamel oxygen isotopes predict that the decedent may have spent his childhood:

(1) In isolated portions of some West States, including California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, or Oklahoma; or

(2) In several Midwest States, including regions along the shores of the Great Lakes; and

(3) In portions of some South and Northeast States (Kentucky, the Tennessee/North Carolina border, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and coastal portions of New Hampshire and Maine).

Interpretations of these oxygen isotope data are meant to help guide further investigations, but should not be taken as definitive in the absence of other supporting evidence.

What appears evident from the stable isotope data is that for the 12-month period prior to death the individual was moving or traveling between at least three different regions, residing in potentially two regions for extended periods of time. The stable isotope data also suggest that the decedent likely did not spend his childhood in Amanda Park, Washington or the greater Pacific Northwest region. Based on the combination of data from the hair and teeth, it is possible that the individual returned to the region where he lived during childhood within the 12-month period prior to death.
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Fantastic detail - thank you! I wonder if Idaho would be potentially included in (1) above ("some West states including...").

I wonder if there's any chance he'd been adopted out, and had recently decided to move onto tribal land ("...potentially two regions for extended periods of time.")

Or maybe he was just someone traveling up/down Hwy 101. But you can only travel so long with no luggage; seems more logical to me that he'd been staying someplace nearby.
 
Snoopster said:
Whoops! I noticed my typo just now....I meant to say that IK said that his first murder was in Washington in September 2001 (not 2011), which, of course, was the month that LS "committed suicide" in Amanda Park. IK got out of the military earlier in the summer. Does anyone think that LS had been in the military? Could the two of them have met there? If not, is there another way they could have bumped into each other? IK worked for a native band in Washington...is it possible that their paths crossed? Or, is it possible that IK stumbled across a loner (one of his early favorite victim types) and killed him, but made it look like a suicide?

I'm not saying that I believe the IK and LS knew each other, or that IK killed LS, but it is definitely on my list of possibilities (among so many other possibilities!).
Click to expand...

Yikes, I didn't realize Israel Keyes was literally living on the Makah res in 2001.

"Keyes worked for the Makah Indian tribe in Washington State after he got out of the Army in July 2001.

"It wasn't that long that you, um, killed somebody and it was that sort of feeling that you needed ... " Feldis said.

"Yeah, Neah Bay's a boring town," Keyes replied.

Later, the questioning turned to the bodies in the lake, and Keyes seemingly chastised his interrogators about not figuring out one of the locations.

"You guys know about Lake Crescent in Washington, right?" he said.

Feldis asked, "And that's the lake?"

"That's one of the lakes," Keyes replied."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-...er-are-in-washington-fbi-interviews-indicate/

And what on earth led him to work for the council I wonder:

"After he left the Army, Keyes took a job working for the Makah Tribal Council in Neah Bay, Wash., until 2007." (http://abcnews.go.com/US/alaska-serial-killer-israel-keyes-high-killing-fbi/story?id=17885366)

Often the Native guys working on the councils (in my area, anyway) tend to be educated members of the tribe (thinking of LS now and wondering if this applies). In my area, too, I know several tribal members who were raised elsewhere (adopted out, or family had moved away before they were born), but then returned to their tribe as college-educated adults to work for the nation. And there are always a few non-Natives, usually working either as secretarial support or in a high-level professional capacity such as a lawyer.

But maybe LS was just a passing traveler:

"He [Israel] claims he began his murders while working for the tribal council. He told investigators that he "murdered a couple" between 2001 and 2005, and killed two people in separate incidents sometime in 2005 and 2006.

"It is unknown if the victims were residents of Washington or if they were vacationing in Washington but resided in another state," the FBI said in a release. "It is also possible Keyes abducted them from a nearby state and transported them to Washington."

Keyes described to authorities how he would find his victims.

"I would let them come to me, just a remote area," he said. "A remote area that's not anywhere where you live but other people go to as well."

The FBI said in a statement that Keyes's favorite places to find victims were remote locations such as parks, campgrounds, trailheads and cemeteries.

He told authorities this method did not provide "as much to choose from.... but also not witnesses really, nobody else around."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/alaska-serial-killer-israel-keyes-high-killing-fbi/story?id=17885366

I don't know if those here have come to a consensus on whether or not the paper in LS's hotel was drafting paper, but note that Keyes' position with the Makah tribe was as a construction worker:

"He [Keyes] also told them he began killing people in 2001, when he was living in Washington state and doing construction work for the Makah Tribal Council." http://newsfreezblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/wide-net-cast-in-search-for-alaska.html

In some tribes there is an order of preference for hiring, such that local tribal members are hired first when possible, then Native tribal members from other nations, and then non-Natives. Perhaps LS was from another Nation (or, again, a Makah or other area Native who'd been raised elsewhere), working for the Makah tribe when Keyes did.
 
EmiLove832 said:
The isotope testing revealed he likely did not spend is childhood in the area.

The enamel oxygen isotopes predict that the decedent may have spent his childhood:

(1) In isolated portions of some West States, including California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, or Oklahoma; or

(2) In several Midwest States, including regions along the shores of the Great Lakes; and

(3) In portions of some South and Northeast States (Kentucky, the Tennessee/North Carolina border, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and coastal portions of New Hampshire and Maine).

Interpretations of these oxygen isotope data are meant to help guide further investigations, but should not be taken as definitive in the absence of other supporting evidence.

What appears evident from the stable isotope data is that for the 12-month period prior to death the individual was moving or traveling between at least three different regions, residing in potentially two regions for extended periods of time. The stable isotope data also suggest that the decedent likely did not spend his childhood in Amanda Park, Washington or the greater Pacific Northwest region. Based on the combination of data from the hair and teeth, it is possible that the individual returned to the region where he lived during childhood within the 12-month period prior to death.
Click to expand...

Just waking up; did they put an article out?
 
I hadn't seen that isotope info before. Huh.




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carbuff said:
Hm. Interesting possibility.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/19320/1
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4797dmmd.html

Side by side with one of Lyle's recons -- the resemblance is stronger with the PM photo, I think. He's got the cleft chin and the somewhat bumpy nose, though his whole face seems somewhat thinner than Lyle's. .I can't tell whether that's just because the photos are at different scales. His mouth seems very similar. The eyebrows don't look thick enough. But height and weight are good, and brown eyes to hazel is probably in range. Age is way up at the top of Lyle's estimate though. NAMPN says he was a computer entrepreneur, which fits with what some of us speculated about Lyle's profession (since his hands don't look like he did physical labor).

There's DNA somewhere. I suppose the next step would be to verify whether it's the same kind of DNA and they're both in the same database.
Click to expand...

Another comparison:image.jpegimage.jpeg
 
EmiLove832 said:
The isotope findings are from Reddit. It's actually linked again on the link you just posted.

ETA, I see it's an update in that link.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lylestevik/comments/4do9ej/the_isotope_testing_weve_also_been_patiently/
Click to expand...

carbuff said:
I hadn't seen that isotope info before. Huh.
Click to expand...

I was scratching my head too. I had to go to Reddit to see what was up. lol
Have to say that military child would not surprise me. With him moving around before death, I wonder if he was enlisted himself but would have to go back to the hair analysis to see the states again.
 
Roselvr said:
Went to Reddit to ask.
Click to expand...

My question on the Reddit thread - Do you know what photos were used to make the regression? Looks very similar to Carl's so I'm wondering if his was used and not the PM photos. The correct way to do the regression would be to use the PM photos

Answer by Urbex - They were given Autopsy, Carl's, and crime scene photos.
 
I was not aware the isotopes came back either! The results make me think that if he spent the last 12 months of his life in three different places, and if we assume he was on the younger end of the range, if he was a college student, school would have just started in August. If he went away to college away from home and had parents that he spent time with over the summer who were divorced and lived in different areas, that would put him in three different places in those twelve months. Then he goes back to college and becomes despondent (not unusual for many students to develop mental health issues when off to college), then he can't take it and decided to end it all. At some point, he's listed as missing I presume. Have we checked for missing college students during this time? I really didn't consider this til the isotope results. I kind of was believing he was older.
 
What kind of injuries were on the hands, and would any be consistent with wear-and-tear from working construction, do you think?
 
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