WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

[rhijas]

Lyle's LE have never asked Ancestry. Years ago I gave them a list of family tree sites that accepted raw data uploads, then when Colleen Fitzpatrick identified Lori Ruff, she was contacted by a few people at Lyle's reddit to see if she can make contact with Lyle's LE. They would get the raw data needed from Lyle's file at UNT. The issue is UNT will only hand it to a government agency to extract the part needed for family tree databases. From what I've seen, Lyle's LE has been busy with other cases, has not had time to get into anything else more.


The sites that accept uploads free are Family Tree DNA, GEDmatch and My Heritage to name a few. There are others but those are the main

Thank you for clearing that up. Would you happen to know which company it was that rejected involvement? I was convinced it was Ancestry (oops) but I'm sure at least one did. There's no possibility that his LE will free up some time to do that given how long it's been since his suicide occurred, correct?

 

[Daphne1972]

As long as we keep pursuing this case there might be a chance LE makes time...

 

[NautaExCalvaria]

Hello, everyone-
I apologize for not contributing any new knowledge, but like all of you I have been deeply touched by this case and that fact that this man has gone without a name for so long. That being said, I wanted to let you know that every year on the 16th or 17th, I make one paper crane for each year that has gone by since Lyle's death. I put his name on the backs of them and leave them in public places for others to find. This year I will make 15 cranes, and hope that maybe next year I won't have to make any. It's not much, but I want people to remember him, and to invite you to join me.

It appears as though I'll be making 16 cranes this year, but there is always hope for an answer. As always, rest in peace, Lyle.

 

[Daphne1972]

So sweet!

 

[Roselvr]

Thank you for clearing that up. Would you happen to know which company it was that rejected involvement? I was convinced it was Ancestry (oops) but I'm sure at least one did. There's no possibility that his LE will free up some time to do that given how long it's been since his suicide occurred, correct?

Lyle's LE have not asked anyone. I'm not sure if any company has said they won't allow LE to upload DNA. Ancestry and 23 and me need saliva. My Heritage, GEDmatch and family tree DNA accepts uploads if LE can find a government lab to accept the DNA from UNT

 

[bears10]

Lyle's LE have not asked anyone. I'm not sure if any company has said they won't allow LE to upload DNA. Ancestry and 23 and me need saliva. My Heritage, GEDmatch and family tree DNA accepts uploads if LE can find a government lab to accept the DNA from UNT

Isn't it a huge privacy issue for websites such as ancestry to allow LE to submit unknown DNA to look for a match in the ancestry database? I remember this being a discussion on here (maybe not Lyle's case, I honestly don't remember)... I will have to do some research but it would make sense for it to be a privacy concern for users of ancestry type websites.

 

[Roselvr]

Isn't it a huge privacy issue for websites such as ancestry to allow LE to submit unknown DNA to look for a match in the ancestry database? I remember this being a discussion on here (maybe not Lyle's case, I honestly don't remember)... I will have to do some research but it would make sense for it to be a privacy concern for users of ancestry type websites.

I've done my DNA at Ancestry and My Heritage, uploaded to Family Tree DNA and GEDmatch. I did my 2 kids and their paternal grandmothers at Ancestry, uploaded to My Heritage, Family Tree DNA and GEDmatch. When you upload, you are giving permission for your sample to be in their database. to be compared by other users for family matching.

If I remember correctly yes there was a case where there was concern about privacy but that was many years ago. DNA for family matching has come a long way. Adoptees find birth family using them and birth parents find their kids.

 

[bears10]

I've done my DNA at Ancestry and My Heritage, uploaded to Family Tree DNA and GEDmatch. I did my 2 kids and their paternal grandmothers at Ancestry, uploaded to My Heritage, Family Tree DNA and GEDmatch. When you upload, you are giving permission for your sample to be in their database. to be compared by other users for family matching.

If I remember correctly yes there was a case where there was concern about privacy but that was many years ago. DNA for family matching has come a long way. Adoptees find birth family using them and birth parents find their kids.

BBM. Right, but LE wasn't using the site for that purpose, which is why it was a concern.

The case I was thinking about was Michael Usury in 2014, less than 3 years ago. Cops used DNA from a two decade old crime scene, uploaded it to Ancestry, and seemed to get a hit that was very similar to Usury's dad. Long story short, when LE took a DNA sample from Usury, it did not in fact match the DNA found at the crime scene. So even though he was cleared, the fact that the was even suspected in the first place is concerning IMO.

 

[Roselvr]

BBM. Right, but LE wasn't using the site for that purpose, which is why it was a concern.

The case I was thinking about was Michael Usury in 2014, less than 3 years ago. Cops used DNA from a two decade old crime scene, uploaded it to Ancestry, and seemed to get a hit that was very similar to Usury's dad. Long story short, when LE took a DNA sample from Usury, it did not in fact match the DNA found at the crime scene. So even though he was cleared, the fact that the was even suspected in the first place is concerning IMO.

I wasn't familiar with the case so googled. There are 2 articles below for anyone interested. The guy was targeted because he fit the profile of a killer because he made horror movies and had other ties to the area. Basically, LE uploaded DNA results to the oldest Y and mtDNA public database called Sorenson. It sounds similar to GEDmatch who has autosomal DNA. Ancestry had bought the Sorenson database which is how they came into play. LE did not upload to Ancestry.com's main database which only supports saliva. Apparently the press went wild, Ancestry was forced to close the Sorenson database down. Pretty much end of story for it.

Lyle's case is different in that he's not a known criminal, he is someone that committed suicide. Had LE gotten saliva they could have uploaded his DNA to ancestry and whatever database they wanted to, but they did not. The only way for LE to upload to the few databases available is for them to get Lyle's UNT file


RIP Sorenson – A Crushing Loss - The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation data base of Y and mitochondrial results, complete with pedigree charts, owned by Ancestry.com, has been removed...

..Sorenson held over 100,000 samples of DNA and was linked to pedigree charts of those who contributed their DNA for processing. One of the earliest data bases, many contributors to Sorenson have passed away today, and their Y and mtDNA information was only available at Sorenson.

New Orleans filmmaker cleared in cold-case murder; false positive highlights limitations of familial DNA searching - By Jim Mustian jmustian@theadvocate.com Mar 12, 2015 - 7:20 am

Investigators last year turned to a controversial technique known as familial searching, which seeks to identify the last name of potential suspects through a DNA analysis focusing on the Y chromosome. A promising “partial match” emerged between the semen sample and the genetic profile of Usry’s father, Michael Usry Sr. — a finding that excluded the father but strongly suggested one of his relatives had a hand in the young woman’s murder.....

.... The elder Usry, who lives outside Jackson, Mississippi, said his DNA entered the equation through a project, sponsored years ago by the Mormon church, in which members gave DNA samples to the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation, a nonprofit whose forensic assets have been acquired by Ancestry.com, the world’s largest for-profit genealogy company.

Ancestry.com received a court order last summer requiring it to reveal Usry’s name to the police, although it is listed as “protected” in the Sorenson Y-chromosome database, according to court records obtained by The New Orleans Advocate. Following this new lead, the police mapped out five generations of Usry’s family, narrowing their focus to three men.

Only one, the New Orleans filmmaker, fit the mold of a plausible suspect, according to an application for a search warrant. Usry, 36, had ties to Idaho, including two sisters who attended a private university about 25 miles from the crime scene.

 

[Roselvr]

I wasn't familiar with the case so googled. There are 2 articles below for anyone interested. The guy was targeted because he fit the profile of a killer because he made horror movies and had other ties to the area. Basically, LE uploaded DNA results to the oldest Y and mtDNA public database called Sorenson. It sounds similar to GEDmatch who has autosomal DNA. Ancestry had bought the Sorenson database which is how they came into play. LE did not upload to Ancestry.com's main database which only supports saliva. Apparently the press went wild, Ancestry was forced to close the Sorenson database down. Pretty much end of story for it.

Lyle's case is different in that he's not a known criminal, he is someone that committed suicide. Had LE gotten saliva they could have uploaded his DNA to ancestry and whatever database they wanted to, but they did not. The only way for LE to upload to the few databases available is for them to get Lyle's UNT file


RIP Sorenson – A Crushing Loss - The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation data base of Y and mitochondrial results, complete with pedigree charts, owned by Ancestry.com, has been removed...

..Sorenson held over 100,000 samples of DNA and was linked to pedigree charts of those who contributed their DNA for processing. One of the earliest data bases, many contributors to Sorenson have passed away today, and their Y and mtDNA information was only available at Sorenson.

New Orleans filmmaker cleared in cold-case murder; false positive highlights limitations of familial DNA searching - By Jim Mustian jmustian@theadvocate.com Mar 12, 2015 - 7:20 am

Here is another good article on it

http://www.legalgenealogist.com/2015/03/15/big-easy-dna-not-so-easy/

 

[bears10]

Here is another good article on it

http://www.legalgenealogist.com/2015/03/15/big-easy-dna-not-so-easy/

I understand your point and that Lyle is not a criminal, but it just blurs a line of privacy IMO. I personally do not think LE should be able to use websites such as ancestry to solve crimes. We can agree to disagree. 😊

 

[Roselvr]

I understand your point and that Lyle is not a criminal, but it just blurs a line of privacy IMO. I personally do not think LE should be able to use websites such as ancestry to solve crimes. We can agree to disagree. ��

Who said I disagree with you? If you read anything I posted above it shows why they shouldn't use databases to solve crimes, it's why they use CODIS. The DNA we do for family matching is not the same they need to solve crimes

 

[Alleykins]

I just want to clarify that I understand that the DNA matching done for crimes is not the same for family matching.

I agree that LE shouldn't be able to use family ancestry DNA sites to solve crimes and find perps, but I have only a little reserve for them to be able to put the DNA of identified remains out there to see what shakes out, for ID purposes only. True, LE has CODIS for that, but it has limitations, in that it contains DNA of people with missing family members or MP's own DNA. With these other sites, it possibly gives access to the DNA of those who may have a missing loved one they didn't know was missing or wasn't reported, like in the case of Denise Beaudin's daughter.

My only reserve is privacy, as in the case of adoption where the biological parents or the adoptee don't want contact, which, if that is the case, they shouldn't be putting their DNA out there. However, I understand it might not be them, but a well meaning close family member, who does.

It also isn't the same matching process between CODIS and the DNA profiles they use for criminals, either, it's a different standard. When asked, that is the reason the NH AG gave as to why NH didn't run the DNA profiles of the Allenstown 4 through the criminal DNA database in hopes of finding the children's father (s). The AG said it is a different protocol and their profiles weren't strong enough, especially the adult female. Which is too bad, because, let's say she had a checkered past, it's possible she could be in the criminal DNA db.

Having said all that, being able to put the UP's DNA out there on these sites is not a guarantee there will be results, as in the case of Miss X. They found family matches through this process, and the people contacted had no clue who she was, so they were right back to square one. However, I would still like LE to be able to somehow do this for historic cases, like the Boy in the Box, BG, and the A4 victims, to name a few. Again, this would be for ID purposes only, not to catch their killers.

 

[Roselvr]

I just want to clarify that I understand that the DNA matching done for crimes is not the same for family matching.

I agree that LE shouldn't be able to use family ancestry DNA sites to solve crimes and find perps, but I have only a little reserve for them to be able to put the DNA of identified remains out there to see what shakes out, for ID purposes only. True, LE has CODIS for that, but it has limitations, in that it contains DNA of people with missing family members or MP's own DNA. With these other sites, it possibly gives access to the DNA of those who may have a missing loved one they didn't know was missing or wasn't reported, like in the case of Denise Beaudin's daughter.

My only reserve is privacy, as in the case of adoption where the biological parents or the adoptee don't want contact, which, if that is the case, they shouldn't be putting their DNA out there. However, I understand it might not be them, but a well meaning close family member, who does.

It also isn't the same matching process between CODIS and the DNA profiles they use for criminals, either, it's a different standard. When asked, that is the reason the NH AG gave as to why NH didn't run the DNA profiles of the Allenstown 4 through the criminal DNA database in hopes of finding the children's father (s). The AG said it is a different protocol and their profiles weren't strong enough, especially the adult female. Which is too bad, because, let's say she had a checkered past, it's possible she could be in the criminal DNA db.

Having said all that, being able to put the UP's DNA out there on these sites is not a guarantee there will be results, as in the case of Miss X. They found family matches through this process, and the people contacted had no clue who she was, so they were right back to square one. However, I would still like LE to be able to somehow do this for historic cases, like the Boy in the Box, BG, and the A4 victims, to name a few. Again, this would be for ID purposes only, not to catch their killers.

With miss X, I'm sure its not that hard to figure out if LE gave the info to one of the geneologists like Colleen or CeCe

As to the databases where adoptees may find relatives, when I uploaded my samples I said it was ok that my samples are used to compare for family matches. These days there aren't many secrets that can be kept.

On the TLC show where they find adoptees and birth parents; most birth parents say they wanted to search but gave up that right when they signed the papers. They promised to not interfere in the adoptees life and that the adoptee had to search for them

I know someone that gave a child up that doesn't want to be found but felt they had to do DNA because they have many close relatives that did it that do not know about the child. Now if the child does it, the parent has more control over whatever happens.

 

[Sheilap22]

Back on topic - has a timeline been made of everyone's personal observations concerning where Lyle was and what he did?

I'm asking because there seems to be a lot of confusion over whether he did this or that on Friday/Saturday/Sunday/etc.

I think the maid had spoke with him on Saturday morning.

 

[Sheilap22]

Here are a few bits and bobs to tell you about.

1. Last week, the daughter of the maid who found Lyle was contacted by the guy who runs the Facebook group about ghost stories (she had left a message about Lyle in 2014), inviting her to join outofthedark's Facebook group. She has yet to respond to the request. He did mention that it took him a lot of convincing to get her to share her experiences back in 2014, so perhaps it's affected her and her mother more than I realised and doesn't want to talk about it. Her privacy will continue to be repsected, but at least she's received the message that she's welcome to join whenever she likes.

2. Someone has left a message on Craigslist for people in the Washington area, asking them if they can source a copy of The Daily World for Sunday, 16th September, 2001, from the public library. It's most likely in the Timberland Regional Library, but they have several locations, so it's a bit like finding a needle in a haystack. I'm sure we can contact the library to ascertain where said copy is though if anyone in the Washington area is happy to volunteer. However, as of yet, no-one has responded.

3. I wonder if anyone has the time to have a look at the Classmates.com yearbooks from Meridian High School, Idaho (in particular 1996-2001, although maybe earlier as well). I'm not a member so the scans are too small for me to see anything, but I just wonder if there's anything in there - someone who looks like Lyle perhaps? It might be fruitless but it's an avenue that hasn't been explored yet I don't think. He's listed as attending the school, but even if it's a sick joke/mistake, it's definitely worth a look. Apparently, it's a 7 minute car drive from the Best Western address that Lyle gave at check-in, so you never know...

4. A controversial one, but would anyone be willing to contact the motel by phone and ask how much a three night stay would be from Friday to Sunday inclusive? Obviously prices are going to be different 14 years after the fact, especially when the motel is under new management, but I'm curious to see whether there's a price hike at the weekend. As we discussed a few weeks back, Lyle paid $47.87 for Friday (which I presume would class as a weekend anyway), but $47.87 per night for the next two nights does not equal $160. I'm just curious to know why Lyle left so much money "for the room".

5. Does anyone know how one would go about convincing Reddit to start up a subreddit for Lyle? Is there a process where you can make a submission for a case to be investigated? As you might know, they've had great success with Grateful Doe, and are now working on the Annadale Jane Doe. I think it would be lovely if Lyle was identified by the 15th anniversary of his death.

I live about 45 minutes from Amanda Park if no one has gone to library to get copy of the newspaper i will.

 

[Brainy]

16 years....


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[namstache]

Bennett Irvin Wall sure has those eyebrows. http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1273dmnm.html


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[NautaExCalvaria]

This year's flock. I will put them out into the world with the same hope as every year: that this group will be the last. Rest in peace, Lyle. You are remembered here.

 

[dalsglen]

Bennett Irvin Wall sure has those eyebrows. http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1273dmnm.html


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Nah, not lyle!