Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
In cases where the teens above were impregnated by males over the age of 18 then logically (?) we must admit to being a nation full of pervs and rapists. And we are taking the FLDS's children away?

So it's perfectly acceptable to ignore the fact that the law is being broken and children are being abused? Because we can't arrest every single child rapist and pervert simultaneously, they should all get a free pass?

Glow, to me, your arguments just fall flat. Over and over you make the same points. And over and over you continue to misconstrue and take the arguments out of context. Comparing the laws to two years ago or 200 years ago is an exercise in futility. The only law that applies is the law as it's written today in Texas.

The only question is has FLDS broken the law in Texas and have children been abused? Clearly, from the testimony that is indeed the case.
 
Precisely. And even more to the point, different laws. There are laws in place protecting children from sexual abuse by adult men. The FLDS and a handful of other freaks can insist all day long that there is nothing wrong with a grown man raping a child. That might have worked in the year 1158, but today the child's rights are protected, and the abuser goes to prison. :behindbar

Glow, in all of your defense of the rights of the FLDS men, and your endless attacks on the government, why have you never once defended the rights of the child?


Read my words carefully. I haven't concerned myself with defending the FLDS men. I am ONLY thinking about the rights of the children and the rights of "us"..."our" society, yours and mine. Not the FLDS mens society. I dont live in their society and dont want to. I live in mine. So, logically I am concerned about mine. I havent attacked the government, I have questioned it. We all have the right and the obbligation to do so.
 
Foster care is known for increasing a childs chance of being abused not decreasing it.

Where does this statistic come from?

99% of kids that go into foster care go in because they have already been abused. Yes, some of them are abused while in foster care, but I seriously question the statement above and any study that says that.
 
I really don't think the parents will submit to DNA testing, the results will prove criminal activity and perhaps end with incarceration. My belief is FLDS will claim the government is overzealous and prosecuting based on religious belief. The men are cowards, and will simply walk away, they may not even let the women be tested. This is going to get worse before it gets any better.

I agree. They may fight it as much as they can. I wouldn't surprise me to find YFZ Ranch abandoned literally overnight.
 
More this morning about Rozita Swinton and the calls to Texas:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA041908.01A.falsereports.388a5f6.html

Child Protection Project founder Linda Walker and the Phoenix-based group's executive director, Flora Jessop, said Friday they were stunned when they learned the woman's identity.
"In her little baby voice, she said, 'If you rescue me, and I get out of here, do you think the black people will hurt me?'" Walker said. "She had done her homework. She knew it was a racist cult. We know that these kids are very frightened of black people.
"The Texas Rangers told us she was obsessed with the FLDS. They confiscated tons of material on the FLDS (in the search of Swinton's home). She even gave real addresses and real names of FLDS people."
 
http://www.restorationbookstore.org/articles/nopoligamy/jsfp-vol1/chp18.htm

Joseph Smith brought forth the Inspired Version of the Bible and the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants. They too support the Book of Mormon's position condemning polygamy. In addition to these Three Standard Books, under Joseph's leadership the following periodicals were produced: the Evening and the Morning Star, the Messenger and Advocate, the Elders' Journal, and the Times and Seasons. A careful reading of these Church papers published during Joseph's lifetime shows that they all support the Book of Mormon's testimony against polygamy. There is not even a faint hint in any Church publication before Joseph's death on June 27, 1844, that polygamy could be right under any condition or circumstance.
*****
Reading up on Joseph Smith's murder is next. I don't know what the accepted theory or motive was behind it. Seems clear to me why he was murdered though.

So why did he (Joseph Smith) have 34 wives?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Jr.
Smith was married to approximately 33 women besides Emma.[48]In the group of Smith's well-documented wives, eleven (33 percent) were 14 to 20 years old when they married him. Nine wives (27 percent) were twenty-one to thirty years old. Eight wives (24 percent) were in Smith's own peer group, ages thirty-one to forty. In the group aged forty-one to fifty, there is a substantial drop off: two wives, or 6 percent, and three (9 percent) in the group aged fifty-one to sixty. [49] Although Smith fathered several children with Emma, no additional offspring from any of the women making a "plural wife" claim has ever been proven,[50] and in fact of the approximately twelve children of these wives that were claimed to have been fathered by Joseph Smith, five so far have been conclusively shown as genetically unrelated, through DNA analysis of living descendants.[51] Work is ongoing to determine paternity or non-paternity of the remaining individuals.

In official church publications, Smith publicly denied such doctrines existed.[52] During Smith's lifetime, his wife Emma reportedly "vacillated between acceptance and rejection" of the practice,[53] with Emma even attending the marriage of Smith to at least one of his plural wives.[54] However, Emma died denying that her husband ever had any other wives, as did Smith's eldest son Joseph. Emma Smith's deathbed testimony stated "no such thing as polygamy, or spiritual wifery, was taught, publicly or privately, before my husband's death, that I have now, or ever had any knowledge of... He had no other wife but me; nor did he to my knowledge ever have."[55] However, one modern commentator has stated that due to Emma's opposition to plural marriage, Smith "moved ahead surreptitiously", resulting in Emma's being unaware of the existence of many of Smith's plural wives.[
 
Does anyone else think that the lawyers for the FLDS will try to file appeals with the TX Supreme Court over the weekend or Monday morning?
 
Where does this statistic come from?

99% of kids that go into foster care go in because they have already been abused. Yes, some of them are abused while in foster care, but I seriously question the statement above and any study that says that.

You are right Barb. I wasn't very clear in expressing my thought. I was sitting here mulling over the fate of the other children currently being held. The ones who haven't been abused. If those children are made to share in the collective fate of the ones who are deemed as abused and therefore needing to be placed into the system, then those not abused children will now statistically stand an increased rate of being abused. Does that make any sense? I have to go for now....my daughter in law and I are headed out for a mom/daughter day. I will check back with you later! :blowkiss:
 
So why did he (Joseph Smith) have 34 wives?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith%2C_Jr.
Smith was married to approximately 33 women besides Emma.[48]In the group of Smith's well-documented wives, eleven (33 percent) were 14 to 20 years old when they married him. Nine wives (27 percent) were twenty-one to thirty years old. Eight wives (24 percent) were in Smith's own peer group, ages thirty-one to forty. In the group aged forty-one to fifty, there is a substantial drop off: two wives, or 6 percent, and three (9 percent) in the group aged fifty-one to sixty. [49] Although Smith fathered several children with Emma, no additional offspring from any of the women making a "plural wife" claim has ever been proven,[50] and in fact of the approximately twelve children of these wives that were claimed to have been fathered by Joseph Smith, five so far have been conclusively shown as genetically unrelated, through DNA analysis of living descendants.[51] Work is ongoing to determine paternity or non-paternity of the remaining individuals.

In official church publications, Smith publicly denied such doctrines existed.[52] During Smith's lifetime, his wife Emma reportedly "vacillated between acceptance and rejection" of the practice,[53] with Emma even attending the marriage of Smith to at least one of his plural wives.[54] However, Emma died denying that her husband ever had any other wives, as did Smith's eldest son Joseph. Emma Smith's deathbed testimony stated "no such thing as polygamy, or spiritual wifery, was taught, publicly or privately, before my husband's death, that I have now, or ever had any knowledge of... He had no other wife but me; nor did he to my knowledge ever have."[55] However, one modern commentator has stated that due to Emma's opposition to plural marriage, Smith "moved ahead surreptitiously", resulting in Emma's being unaware of the existence of many of Smith's plural wives.[

He didn't. That was a lie said by those who wanted to back up their claim that Joseph Smith supported polygamy. It was getting hard for polygamists to back up their claim if Joseph himself wasn't a polygamist. Many of the women that claimed to be Josephs wives were actually married to the men that Joseph was trying to expel from the LDS church for practicing polygamy. Those men instructed their wives to say they were Joseph Smith's wives. Brigham Young had possesion of all of Smiths papers after Joseph died. During that time many originals were conveniently lost and replaced with ones that are not in Josephs handwriting and signed with obviously someone else's signature. Brigham Young was the polygamist not Joseph.

http://www.restorationbookstore.org/articles/nopoligamy/jsfp-vol1/chp10.htm

ETA: Fortunately the renegade fundamentalists that took over the LDS church weren't able to get their hands on all documentation out there and change or cause it to mysteriously disappear.
 
If child support was an option back then, maybe Joseph Smith or Brigham Young would have had second thoughts. Each of these women is entitled to $ from the fathers, and I hope they collect. I even wonder if these women realize this. (I'll bet the fathers do.)
 
You are right Barb. I wasn't very clear in expressing my thought. I was sitting here mulling over the fate of the other children currently being held. The ones who haven't been abused. If those children are made to share in the collective fate of the ones who are deemed as abused and therefore needing to be placed into the system, then those not abused children will now statistically stand an increased rate of being abused. Does that make any sense? I have to go for now....my daughter in law and I are headed out for a mom/daughter day. I will check back with you later! :blowkiss:

I understand what you are saying better now, thanks for clarifying. However, I still don't agree with it in this situation. We know that the girls are being groomed for early marriage in the Eldorado compound, and the boys are either going to be kicked out, or groomed to be a polygamist (bigamist), with underage wives. To me, they stand a much bigger chance of being abusesd in the FLDS compound than they do in the foster care system. Just my opinion, from personal experience.

ETA - have a fun day w/ DIL - sounds like fun !!!
 
Maybe now, this will force the Canadians to do something about Bountiful which they have been reluctant to do in the past.

http://www.ctvbc.ca/servlet/an/loca...ring_080418/20080418/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

Oppal told The Canadian Press he had been alerted that some Canadians were involved. He said government officials would be getting involved, though it wasn't clear what their role would be.

"This has been an issue for quite some time in that it has been said that at Bountiful there are said to be some Americans there as well," Oppal said.
 
Heres a sobering statistic...

In 2002, more than 17,000 girls aged 14 or under became pregnant nationwide (see this report from the Guttmacher Institute, pdf, p. 9). More than a quarter million American girls aged 15-17 became pregnant that same year (p. 7)!

In cases where the teens above were impregnated by males over the age of 18 then logically (?) we must admit to being a nation full of pervs and rapists. And we are taking the FLDS's children away?

How many of those 17,000 concieved at the urging of their parents and by a 40+ year old adult man?
 
You are right Barb. I wasn't very clear in expressing my thought. I was sitting here mulling over the fate of the other children currently being held. The ones who haven't been abused. If those children are made to share in the collective fate of the ones who are deemed as abused and therefore needing to be placed into the system, then those not abused children will now statistically stand an increased rate of being abused. Does that make any sense? I have to go for now....my daughter in law and I are headed out for a mom/daughter day. I will check back with you later! :blowkiss:

Glow I have been following your posts since the beginning of this. In one of your earliest posts. If my recollections are correct you were putting the rights of the FLDS with the Native Americans when they were put on reservations. That was wrong.

With the rights of the FLDS its much different. There is a possibility some of the kids are not being abused. It makes sense to me.....BUT the parents of these kids should & need to stand up & be held accountable. They need to go into court sit, as a pair of parents ( husband & wife only) how many could do that? They all have choices the same as you & I. You better bet if my kids had been taken away from me I'd take off the damn dresses / chop my hair off & DISTANCE myself as far away as possible. If my husband wouldn't sit beside me his azz would be history. Sweet wouldn't be in my vocabulary....

These people could very easily abide by the laws the same as we all do. Quit hiding behind a religion & fight for there kids. I'd bet any amount of money if the women stood up & said we want our kids back & could prove NO ABUSE! We will not be influenced in any which way by the FLDS men.
Its done / its over / the state will & would work with them to assist in getting them back down the road.

They claim to have college degrees, they claim to be teachers. They could get jobs the same as all of us. Instead they hide behind walls & behind weak men who rape & claim its there way of life, its ok turn your head. All of these women could stand up today for the kids.....how many actually are 100% willing to walk away from the compound?
 
I have a hard time believing the mothers who say that they'd leave the compound to regain custody of their children. This group is well known for spouting off whatever "in the moment" to suit themselves and then promptly doing whatever the heck suits themselves.
 
If child support was an option back then, maybe Joseph Smith or Brigham Young would have had second thoughts. Each of these women is entitled to $ from the fathers, and I hope they collect. I even wonder if these women realize this. (I'll bet the fathers do.)


This will be very interesting to find out how the men intend on paying child support for all these kids they have sired. I also hope the state of Texas goes after the men & the women who have received welfare & demand it back.

All they have to do is ask the women what they spent the money on & show receipts. If it went to the church let the church repay it for welfare fraud.
 
Glow I have been following your posts since the beginning of this. In one of your earliest posts. If my recollections are correct you were putting the rights of the FLDS with the Native Americans when they were put on reservations. That was wrong.

With the rights of the FLDS its much different. There is a possibility some of the kids are not being abused. It makes sense to me.....BUT the parents of these kids should & need to stand up & be held accountable. They need to go into court sit, as a pair of parents ( husband & wife only) how many could do that? They all have choices the same as you & I. You better bet if my kids had been taken away from me I'd take off the damn dresses / chop my hair off & DISTANCE myself as far away as possible. If my husband wouldn't sit beside me his azz would be history. Sweet wouldn't be in my vocabulary....

These people could very easily abide by the laws the same as we all do. Quit hiding behind a religion & fight for there kids. I'd bet any amount of money if the women stood up & said we want our kids back & could prove NO ABUSE! We will not be influenced in any which way by the FLDS men.
Its done / its over / the state will & would work with them to assist in getting them back down the road.

They claim to have college degrees, they claim to be teachers. They could get jobs the same as all of us. Instead they hide behind walls & behind weak men who rape & claim its there way of life, its ok turn your head. All of these women could stand up today for the kids.....how many actually are 100% willing to walk away from the compound?
BS. I cannot believe any of these people, especially the women, have college degrees. First of all how do they get into college without having an accredited HS diploma? Secondly I can't see (especially the women) leaving the compound long enough to attend college, and Third, if they did, I don't see them going back to life in the compound.
 
BS. I cannot believe any of these people, especially the women, have college degrees. First of all how do they get into college without having an accredited HS diploma? Secondly I can't see (especially the women) leaving the compound long enough to attend college, and Third, if they did, I don't see them going back to life in the compound.


I agree 100% with you!
Also the biggest question is who would of paid for college? Nope never happened.
 
I have a hard time believing the mothers who say that they'd leave the compound to regain custody of their children. This group is well known for spouting off whatever "in the moment" to suit themselves and then promptly doing whatever the heck suits themselves.

They'd never leave the compound to get custody of the kids.
They'll say whatever they feel the world wants to hear at that moment.

Within a few months they'll all be pregnant again & the cycle will start all over again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
179
Guests online
2,418
Total visitors
2,597

Forum statistics

Threads
603,758
Messages
18,162,501
Members
231,841
Latest member
Placebo
Back
Top