Was BR involved? #2

[BetteDavisEyes]

Tonight (Friday) at 9:00PM (EDT) on NBC's Dateline:

Who killed JonBenet?

Exploring the murder case of JonBenet Ramsey, a 6-year-old who was found murdered in her family's home in December, 1996.

 

[UKGuy]

A lot of his avoidant and odd behaviour would make a lot of sense to me if he was definitely on the spectrum. Autistic people rely a lot of home comfort and routine, if there is any stress in the home then him confining himself to his room would be very typical behaviour for a child on the spectrum. The same with him not asking questions or appearing concerned. The faking being asleep (and other acts of deliberate deception) is harder to explain, but it is called a spectrum because symptoms can be severe or subtle and each child experiences it differently, some appearing very high functioning and others noticeably 'different'.

Having said it is unusual for a child on the spectrum to be deceptive, on the other hand it would be easier for a parent to deceive and confuse an autistic child. This is due to them taking everything quite literally and not understanding deception or that people have other motives. If Patsy and John had been consistent enough, convincing Burke of an alternate version of what happened that night is a possible explanation for his keeping up appearances.

I believe maybe Burke was in a very unusual family environment, and exposed to unusual behaviour at home which influenced a lot of his behaviour.

All just my speculations of course, I don't mean to diagnose him to anybody as I have only seen and read snippets of him.

necnaw,
ITA, if BR was on the spectrum he might be open to suggestion and manipulation.

.

 

[johnjay]

Those on the spectrum aren't necessarily more prone to aggression but I think they may not have the proper tools necessary (like communication) to deal with frustrations and need a lot of care to help them develop those tools (like therapy, parental involvement, parents need a sort of training/learning/understanding on hope to cope/respond...etc). I found this interesting article about why bad behavior might occur: http://www.iser.com/resources/aspergers-aggressive.html Could one of these be something that might have led BR to be aggressive towards JBR...and if the parents were asleep...
She could have ate his pineapple out of his bowl (saw that theory in another thread) or played with his train or accidentally stepped on his hand or something.

I recall something about some of Burke's Christmas presents being held back until his birthday- which wasn't far away. Are the details of that story known. Do we know why they were held back? I also remember Burke complaining in his interview with social services that his parents didn't buy expensive Christmas presents. Was Burke disappointed with Christmas and were the presets held back because of behavioral issues?

 

[UKGuy]

UK, I don't know what you mean by this. However, when the eyes move up to the left hand corners of they eyes it is because the person is talking about something they have not seen. There is no memory for them to search.

When the eyes move up, it is in reference to a scene or an image. Middle is hearing. Down is emotion.

Eyes to the right means it is an actual memory of the event being searched for in the brain. Eyes to the left means that the memory does not exist and the person is trying to fit the words/responses to what they have said before, or know to be true.

Right emotion is grief, sadness. Left is guilt.

Turn your own eyes down and left for a few seconds, then down and right. You will feel the different emotions.

Right is good. Left is bad.

Learned this during a course taught by psychologists in how to pick truthful jurors.

TeaTime,
Sometimes you have to laugh.

How about people with some kind of brain dysfunction, you know had a stroke, cannot speak very well, or been amputated, i.e. no leg or arm, but think they have one?

What I'm asking you directly is does your eye references, refer to brain regions or is it folk psychology, i.e. a good heuristic but not conclusive?

.

 

[necnaw]

necnaw,
ITA, if BR was on the spectrum he might be open to suggestion and manipulation.

.

Yes and the thought of it all makes me feel very sorry for young Burke, regardless of how involved he was with what happened. He was obviously a very emotionally vulnerable child. God knows what really went on in that house.

 

[Lamima]

I recall something about some of Burke's Christmas presents being held back until his birthday- which wasn't far away. Are the details of that story known. Do we know why they were held back? I also remember Burke complaining in his interview with social services that his parents didn't buy expensive Christmas presents. Was Burke disappointed with Christmas and were the presets held back because of behavioral issues?

That's interesting. Is that in line with the story about him opening gifts hidden in the basement?

 

[UKGuy]

I recall something about some of Burke's Christmas presents being held back until his birthday- which wasn't far away. Are the details of that story known. Do we know why they were held back? I also remember Burke complaining in his interview with social services that his parents didn't buy expensive Christmas presents. Was Burke disappointed with Christmas and were the presets held back because of behavioral issues?

johnjay,
Bear in mind BR's parents were millionaires, purchasing gifts was not an exercise in saving cents. Kolar relates to us that BR opened the Partially Opened gifts on Christmas Day afternoon, presumably to discover what his parents had deemed a desirable gift?

Consider: BR knew Christmas Day afternoon what the contents of the gifts were, so come Christmas Day Evening what position he might be in to suggest why investigating the basement might be a good idea?

.

 

[johnjay]

That's interesting. Is that in line with the story about him opening gifts hidden in the basement?

Yes, I just noticed there's a thread about this with recent entries. Some recent posts quote from Kolar's book. I think I'm on the same page as him with my speculations.

 

[johnjay]

johnjay,
Bear in mind BR's parents were millionaires, purchasing gifts was not an exercise in saving cents. Kolar relates to us that BR opened the Partially Opened gifts on Christmas Day afternoon, presumably to discover what his parents had deemed a desirable gift?

Consider: BR knew Christmas Day afternoon what the contents of the gifts were, so come Christmas Day Evening what position he might be in to suggest why investigating the basement might be a good idea?

.

I have the impression that these were Christmas presents that Burke wouldn't be getting over the Christmas holidays. The presents for the other house were already packed on the plane. Am I mistaken?

 

[jillyr1059]

Let's talk about broken paintbrush...I've considered the way it was broken was that the cord was run under the door and the paintbrush used for leverage to pull the garotte, which subsequently snapped under the strain. It fits with a close family member not wanting to watch the victim die


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Uh...when exactly did Patsy go into Burke's room, screaming, "Where's my baby? Where's my baby?". First time I ever heard THAT !

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I have the impression that these were Christmas presents that Burke wouldn't be getting over the Christmas holidays. The presents for the other house were already packed on the plane. Am I mistaken?

They were presents for his birthday in January. I've never heard that they were Christmas presents held back.

 

[DatelineFan]

UK, I don't know what you mean by this. However, when the eyes move up to the left hand corners of they eyes it is because the person is talking about something they have not seen. There is no memory for them to search.

When the eyes move up, it is in reference to a scene or an image. Middle is hearing. Down is emotion.

Eyes to the right means it is an actual memory of the event being searched for in the brain. Eyes to the left means that the memory does not exist and the person is trying to fit the words/responses to what they have said before, or know to be true.

Right emotion is grief, sadness. Left is guilt.

Turn your own eyes down and left for a few seconds, then down and right. You will feel the different emotions.

Right is good. Left is bad.

Learned this during a course taught by psychologists in how to pick truthful jurors.

I have heard this before, but it's definitely not the case 100% of the time. I think it's more of a theory. Do you have a source that this is always true?

Again, not sure if I think BR is guilty, but I don't think this information about eyes is a fact.

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[cattlekate]

That's interesting. Is that in line with the story about him opening gifts hidden in the basement?

Burke opened gifts hidden in the basement? Oh oh I thought I knew a lot about this case but can't find the reference on that. Sorry but what's the story about this? I know Patsy would store the presents in the little "wine cellar" basement cubby where Jon Benet was found but hadn't heard anything about Burke snooping and opening presents. TIA.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Burke opened gifts hidden in the basement? Oh oh I thought I knew a lot about this case but can't find the reference on that. Sorry but what's the story about this? I know Patsy would store the presents in the little "wine cellar" basement cubby where Jon Benet was found but hadn't heard anything about Burke snooping and opening presents. TIA.

I think it's in Kolar's book. Anyway, there are police photographs of presents in the wine room cellar ripped open. Asked about these, Patsy told LE she tore them open because she couldn't recall what was in them. It was later discovered that Burke had opened them. Why Patsy lied about this is anyone guess. Maybe she didn't want to reveal that Burke had recently been in the wine cellar. Or maybe she just lied about everything as a reflex. Or maybe she was just a lying liar who lied. Who knows?

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

This is what Kolar said:

There had been another discrepancy in one of Patsy Ramsey's law enforcement interviews that caught my attention. Investigators had noted that the wrapping paper on a pair of Christmas presents observed in the wine cellar at the time of the discovery of Jonbenet's body had been torn. She told the detectives that she couldn't remember what was contained in the presents, and hence the need to tear back part of the paper.
I learned, over the course of my inquiry, that it was Burke who had actually been responsible for tearing back the paper of the presents while playing in the basement on Christmas Day, and I wondered why Patsy would claim responsibility for doing this. Patsy had also told investigators that the unwrapped box of Lego toys in the same room was being hidden for Burke's upcoming January birthday.
I didn't give much thought about the presence of the Christmas presents in the room at the time, but would later think these played a role in some of the events that took place on Christmas day.

"Over the course of my inquiry" is pretty vague for a source though.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

People were speculating that the interview will be biased because Dr. Phil and the Ramseys are both represented by Lin Wood, and that may be true, but Dr. Phil is definitly not talking about Burke in the most glowing terms in all the interviews to promote it.

 

[Tadpole12]

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...other-burke-smiles-as-he-recalls-case-w438909

JonBenet Ramsey’s Brother Burke Smiles
As He Recalls Aftermath of Murder:
It Was a ‘Chaotic Nightmare'

US mag
Sept 9, 2016


“For a long time, the media basically made our lives crazy,”
Burke said. "It’s hard to miss the cameras
and news trucks in your front yard, and we’d go to the supermarket
sometimes and there’d be a tabloid with my picture, JonBenét’s picture,
plastered on the front, or they would follow us around.


As Burke recalled the night of the murder, he had a smile on his face.
"The first thing I remember is my mom bursting into my room really frantic,
saying, ‘Oh my gosh! Oh my gosh!’ running around my room looking for
JonBenét,” he said. “The next thing I remember is a police officer coming
into my room and shining a flashlight.”

Seeing that as a little kid is just kind of a chaotic nightmare,
so I was pretty skeptical of any sort of media, like, it just made
me a very private person.”


“As to why I’m doing it now, it’s the twentieth anniversary
and apparently still a lot of attention around it, and I guess
I kind of wanted to make it about remembering her and not
just another news story.”

 

[Tadpole12]

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,21028954,00.html

BR, DP video

JonBenét's Brother, Burke, Explains Why He Didn't Leave His Room After Her Killing
Sept 9, 2016


"Somebody comes in your room and flashlight looks around," Dr. Phil questions in the clip. "Your mother's been in there yelling, 'Oh my gosh! Oh my gosh! Oh my gosh! Where's my baby?' And you never get up and say, 'What is going on here?' "


Burke remained in his room before and after JonBenét's body was found in the family's Boulder, Colorado, basement, with a cord around her neck and duct tape over her mouth.

In the clip, Burke says, "I guess I kind of like to avoid conflict or, I don't know, I guess I just felt safer there."



"I'm not the worried type," he continues, chuckling. "I guess part of me doesn't want to know what's going on."

Dr. Phil responds, referencing the suspicion the Ramsey family long faced, "You, of course, know that critics would say you weren't curious because you already knew.


"You didn't have to get up and check because you knew exactly what had happened."

Burke was 9 years old at the time of his 6-year-old sister's killing.

 

[ConcernedinDC]

I am new here. I don't know if this has been brought up already but, could the white nylon cord have come from something like this? It unravels into a long single cord. This doesn't mean Burke did it but, just that it may have come with his pocket knife?