Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[HarmonyE.]

JonBenét's doctor said he didn't see any proof of sexual abuse, case closed! The feces prove nothing but Burke acting out as most kids do his age, maybe a little extreme but I've seen kids act out in similar ways, doesn't mean they're killers.

A nearly 10 year old boy behaving like that? Agree, it doesn't prove he's a killer. But it is indicative of mental illness. And possibly hatred.

 

[Frigga]

JonBenét's doctor said he didn't see any proof of sexual abuse, case closed! The feces prove nothing but Burke acting out as most kids do his age, maybe a little extreme but I've seen kids act out in similar ways, doesn't mean they're killers.

The case is not closed because you say so and using your logic those things don't prove someone not a killer either. I'm sorry, I don't know what kind of kids YOU know but NO, most kids that age don't act out... and certainly not by smearing feces on their little sisters chocolate.

 

[Frigga]

JonBenét's doctor said he didn't see any proof of sexual abuse, case closed! The feces prove nothing but Burke acting out as most kids do his age, maybe a little extreme but I've seen kids act out in similar ways, doesn't mean they're killers.

Oh, the doctor that was called to the house that very morning to give comfort and pills to Patsy? He wasn't HER doctor- he was a pediatrician. The same doctor that said he wouldn't share Jonbenet's medical history, under any circumstances- even a court order?

I wonder why Burkes medical records were sealed too?

 

[HarmonyE.]

I wonder why Burkes medical records were sealed too?

A fair guess would be that they address Patsy's concerns about behavioral issues prior to the murder.

No need to hide routine wellness checks or bouts with the flu.

 

[zencompass]

By HarmonyE.:

A fair guess would be that they address Patsy's concerns about behavioral issues prior to the murder.

No need to hide routine wellness checks or bouts with the flu.

Dear HarmonyE,

Brilliant post (as always!). I do wonder whether some recommendations were made during medical consultations which were ignored. I have a feeling
that this is possible. Tragically sad but possible.

 

[johnjay]

I remember first reading Kolar's book and dismissing the theory of Burke being able to do anything other than possibly causing the initial head blow.

I really wondered if Kolar was using reverse-psychology to trick Burke into breaking down and talking about that night.... maybe confessing that he saw his mother strike JB????

Now, since he has spoken, I am more inclined to think BDI.. more, importantly Burke KNOWS a lot more than he's ever let on...

If Burke ever comes out and talks about what he witnessed that night and morning of the murder (assuming PDI), is anyone even going to believe what he says?

Why would any intelligent person believe him if he changed his story now?

 

[zencompass]

The message to any family member living under the external impression of "a perfect family" is received as the message "you are not
good enough to be part of this family but play along."

When someone is totally occupied with 'Look at us. We are perfect', then anything that is genuinely happening has to be ignored because it doesn't "fit"
into the false image.

From what I have learned about this case, these two young children were both manifesting symptoms of their suffering. All was ignored though and swept
under the rug.

It makes me wonder what the evidence was for the Grand Jury to have come up with their conclusions.

It is so extremely sad and troubling when little children's emotional well-being is ignored for the grand external impression of "we are perfect." So sad.

If there is one message I received from this whole tragic case is for people to care about each other more and not what their "external impression" is.

 

[johnjay]

The message to any family member living under the external impression of "a perfect family" is received as the message "you are not
good enough to be part of this family but play along."

When someone is totally occupied with 'Look at us. We are perfect', then anything that is genuinely happening has to be ignored because it doesn't "fit"
into the false image.

From what I have learned about this case, these two young children were both manifesting symptoms of their suffering. All was ignored though and swept
under the rug.

It makes me wonder what the evidence was for the Grand Jury to have come up with their conclusions.

It is so extremely sad and troubling when little children's emotional well-being is ignored for the grand external impression of "we are perfect." So sad.

I don't know how bad his acting out was, or how much was ignored, but many parents have a tendency to think the best of their own children and would not be willing to do something as drastic as have the kids not live together. What were they going to do, have JonBenet move next door with the dog or put Burke in a psyche ward? But they should have at least considered other sleeping arrangements.

 

[zencompass]

Dear Frigga,

I understand that the medical records were sealed. I keep wondering about why the Grand Jury came to the conclusion they did. Is it possible that
a doctor testified to medical records/recommendations to the Grand Jury? I am thinking that if a doctor did testify to recommendations and if they
were not followed by the parents - could this then have led to the G.Jury conclusion. What are your thoughts on this? Thank you in advance!

 

[HarmonyE.]

Dear Frigga,

I understand that the medical records were sealed. I keep wondering about why the Grand Jury came to the conclusion they did. Is it possible that
a doctor testified to medical records/recommendations to the Grand Jury? I am thinking that if a doctor did testify to recommendations and if they
were not followed by the parents - could this then have led to the G.Jury conclusion. What are your thoughts on this? Thank you in advance!

Burke was one of the last people to testify before the Grand Jury returned their indictments.

 

[zencompass]

I don't know how bad his acting out was, or how much was ignored, but many parents have a tendency to think the best of their own children and would not be willing to do something as drastic as have the kids not live together. What were they going to do, have JonBenet move next door with the dog or put Burke in a psyche ward? But they should have at least considered other sleeping arrangements.

Hi Johnjay,

What if the parents had been given recommendations for therapy/counselling and they chose to ignore this?

Parents drop everything to attend to their children's needs - either physical or emotional. Did this not happen?

I just have a feeling that they could not bring themselves to be involved in family therapy or individual therapy because they were "so perfect". This makes me
so sad to type this because possibly this tragedy could have been avoided.

I understand what you are saying. Life is difficult sometimes. Difficult decisions can't always wait. I know that I do not have the answer but sometimes
in life we are given what seem like impossible choices.

 

[x_files]

Oh, the doctor that was called to the house that very morning to give comfort and pills to Patsy? He wasn't HER doctor- he was a pediatrician. The same doctor that said he wouldn't share Jonbenet's medical history, under any circumstances- even a court order?

I wonder why Burkes medical records were sealed too?

How exactly is it legal to withhold medical records of a deceased child used in a homicide investigation? Why do I feel they treated The Ramsey's with velvet gloves. So many weird situations!

 

[UKGuy]

If I'm not mistaken photos of this "spider web" were never taken, hmmm... I wonder why. How can we believe what the cops saw if there's no picture evidence of it? The same cops who decided the parents were guilty from the first day? Plus if it was still intact by the time cops saw it it could have been re-spun. And I also believe that the intruder may have avoided it or the web was strong enough to stay intact even with some minimal contact.

TUB23,
What intruder?

There is absolutely no forensic evidence linking to anyone outside the Ramsey house never mind a Foreign Faction.

.

 

[TUB23]

TUB23,
What intruder?

There is absolutely no forensic evidence linking to anyone outside the Ramsey house never mind a Foreign Faction.

.

There's evidence of an intruder, but there's no evidence the family did it. Just pure speculation and fantasies being thrown around about the brother or mother killing her. And there's no DNA evidence linking the family, no logical proof either.

 

[UKGuy]

Detective Fred Patterson interviewed Burke that morning (December 26th) and he stated that Burke had no idea that his sister was dead, Burke only thought his sister was missing, because this is what he was told. The detective said he was straightforward with him, didn't hold anything back and appeared to be completely honest. Burke would have to be some very super intelligent, crazy smart, insane/manipulative maniac to lie/pretend that well to a grown adult who was a detective.

In another documentary the leading British government forensic pathologist Stuart Hamilton looked at the marks on JonBenét and was asked about the train track theory and he called it "highly unlikely" "if you look at the injury to the face it's a lot bigger then the train track marks" and that it "borders on the fanciful" to believe such hogwash. The marks on her body and face cannot be explained by the train tracks, the train track would have left small very light marks these were bigger and bolder injuries, that left an electric arc that a train track cannot do!

TUB23,
BBM: BR is not going to tell investigators what he is not supposed to know, duh. Oh yeah she's dead, yup some kidnapper did it ... don't think so.

Unlike when he was overheard by Susan Stine describing how JonBenet was whacked on the head and no autopsy results had been released.

Stuart Hamilton looked at the marks on JonBenét and was asked about the train track theory and he called it "highly unlikely" "if you look at the injury to the face it's a lot bigger then the train track marks" and that it "borders on the fanciful" to believe such hogwash.

That's expert opinion, you only get what you pay for and not a cent more!


.

 

[UKGuy]

There's evidence of an intruder, but there's no evidence the family did it. Just pure speculation and fantasies being thrown around about the brother or mother killing her. And there's no DNA evidence linking the family, no logical proof either.

TUB23,
There is zero evidence of an intruder, no entry point, no exit point, nothing, zilch nada.

BBM: All three Ramsey's can be linked directly by forensic evidence to the wine cellar, in particular, Burke Ramsey by his touch-dna and shoe footprint.


.

 

[Heymom]

There's evidence of an intruder, but there's no evidence the family did it. Just pure speculation and fantasies being thrown around about the brother or mother killing her. And there's no DNA evidence linking the family, no logical proof either.

You got it exactly backwards. There is no evidence of an intruder, and plentiful evidence that the family was involved. The Grand Jury true-billed both Patsy and John for neglect and for obstruction! Why would a GJ do that if there was evidence of an intruder? (modsnip)

Sorry, I get impatient with people who intentionally ignore reality.

 

[Cerin Amroth]

One question I have after watching the special is, who strangled her with the garrote? The brutality involved makes it hard to believe it was the parents. But I also question if it's the brother. Was he capable of such savage?

I can see Burke hitting JB and unintentionally killing her with a blunt subject, flashlight or not, in a moment of rage. But what the garrote represents is whole other level.

So who strangled her with the garrote?

 

[AmyPond]

There's evidence of an intruder, but there's no evidence the family did it. Just pure speculation and fantasies being thrown around about the brother or mother killing her. And there's no DNA evidence linking the family, no logical proof either.

Can you please post the evidence of an intruder? I am fairly new to this case but haven't come across any solid proof of an intruder.

As for the cobweb....even in the video of Lou Smit climbing in the window, his body takes up the entire thing. And he's not that wide. So unless the intruder was super narrow, that corner of the window would have been disturbed.

One question I have after watching the special is, who strangled her with the garrote? The brutality involved makes it hard to believe it was the parents. But I also question if it's the brother. Was he capable of such savage?

I can see Burke hitting JB and unintentionally killing her with a blunt subject, flashlight or not, in a moment of rage. But what the garrote represents is whole other level.

So who strangled her with the garrote?

As a parent, it's hard for me to imagine such brutality against one's own child. But I've seen numerous cases here on websleuths where parents do horrific things to their children. It happens way too often. I think many people don't want to believe it's possible for a "nice", white, upper class family. But violence and brutality can occur in any type of household.

 

[Heymom]

One question I have after watching the special is, who strangled her with the garrote? The brutality involved makes it hard to believe it was the parents. But I also question if it's the brother. Was he capable of such savage?

I can see Burke hitting JB and unintentionally killing her with a blunt subject, flashlight or not, in a moment of rage. But what the garrote represents is whole other level.

So who strangled her with the garrote?

It wasn't a garrote, first of all. It was a cord around her neck, with a snapped-off paintbrush at one end. It was not professional, that was all ginned-up by the Ramseys to throw more red herrings up and make it look as if some crazed pedophile was on the loose. The knots were not "unusually complicated" or anything like that. Yes, a 10-year-old with basic knowledge of how to tie simple knots could have done it. I know it's hard to imagine a young child carrying out these actions, but there are certain children who think about and even sometimes carry out these kinds of crimes.