Was Burke Involved? # 4

[UKGuy]

I tried to find a good source that claimed the paintbrush handle had been whittled and couldn't find it. I also tried to find a source that described the knot as a "prusik hitch" and couldn't find that either except when it was discussed on sites like WS and reddit. For me, the author of the page jumps to too many conclusions. The logic here being: Burke liked to whittle. Burke was a Boy Scout. The paintbrush handle was whittled and the knots tied could be found in the Boy Scout Manual; therefore, Burke did it. Okay, if that's what creator of the webpage wants to believe, then fine.

I ran across another web site the other day that was playing fast and loose with the facts. I thought it was great until I started realizing that the author of the website was getting details wrong. That site claimed that the rope found in JAR's bedroom was just sitting uncovered on the floor. I wasn't able to find a reliable source for that either. Too bad. Wouldn't it have been great if it was true?

BoldBear,
That's a pretty weak rationale for BDI. Much better is that Burke's pocket knife was left at the crime-scene.

If you start with that , then connect him via his touch-dna on the nightgown, his fingerprint on the pineapple bowl, and tea-glass, that JonBenet is found wearing his long johns, despite numerous alternatives being available, and you accept his account of being in the basement after everyone was in bed.

So Burke was the only R in the right place at the right time, and who left multiple forensic deposits across different locations where he and JonBenet intersected, e.g. his fecal soiled pajama pants.

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[Tortoise]

BoldBear,
That's a pretty weak rationale for BDI. Much better is that Burke's pocket knife was left at the crime-scene.

If you start with that , then connect him via his touch-dna on the nightgown, his fingerprint on the pineapple bowl, and tea-glass, that JonBenet is found wearing his long johns, despite numerous alternatives being available, and you accept his account of being in the basement after everyone was in bed.

So Burke was the only R in the right place at the right time, and who left multiple forensic deposits across different locations where he and JonBenet intersected, e.g. his fecal soiled pajama pants.

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He didn't say he was in the basement. Let's stick to facts.

 

[kanzz]

Hi all...

We've got some pretty compelling stuff to share in regards to Burke's knife...

https://shakedowntitle.com/2016/12/07/jonbenet-ramsey-case-insights-1-burkes-knife/

Hi Lisa - Thanks so much for assembling this info about BR and the clues about the knife. They are very telling indeed. We've been wrestling with these issues for a while now.

During the interview at the Child Advocacy Center in Niwot, Burke said:
"I think that someone took her very quietly and took her down to the basement, and then he took a knife out, and woops! like that, with probably a hammer, and probably hit her in the head with it."

RE: the knot in the ligature.. I don't think it was anything complicated or fancy at all. For a long time, I've thought it was just a figure of eight. Just this morning, I had an epiphany (though I still don't know that I'm correct). My point is, nobody agrees about what type of knot it is. I do not think it is any "type". It is just a cord wrapped around a broken paintbrush
Here's my earlier post about that:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-12-Days-of-JonBenet&p=12986109#post12986109

Was the paintbrush whittled? I don't think so. It appears to be broken to me. The knife, imo, was possibly used more as a threat than an actual tool.

And, FWIW, it isn't a true garotte. It's just a slip-knot that formed a snare or a noose that became a ligature device. A true garotte has two handles. The word "garotte" implies something more sophisticated than this crude implement.

BTW - Your name is familiar. Do I remember you from the Cynthia Sommer case? Were you in the San Diego courtroom for some of her hearings?

 

[UKGuy]

He didn't say he was in the basement. Let's stick to facts.

Tortoise,
I thought I heard him say he went downstairs to play with some Christmas toy?


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[Tortoise]

Tortoise,
I thought I heard him say he went downstairs to play with some Christmas toy?


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How do you interpret that to being in the basement?

 

[Userid]

^ Right, downstairs more than likely means the living room, where all of the toys were (as evidenced by the photographs) on the first floor; not the basement.

 

[singularity]

I'd like to know what else he was doing downstairs. Burke's big enchilada was that N64. For the average kid that Christmas who received one, all other toys would've taken a backseat and not just on Christmas but for days. She would've wanted to play it too.

It's no wonder the original BDI revolved around it.

Can someone refresh my memory.....

Exactly how many TVs were in the house?

 

[Tortoise]

I'd like to know what else he was doing downstairs. Burke's big enchilada was that N64. For the average kid that Christmas who received one, all other toys would've taken a backseat and not just on Christmas but for days. She would've wanted to play it too.

It's no wonder the original BDI revolved around it.

Can someone refresh my memory.....

Exactly how many TVs were in the house?

The police line of questioning to JR was very strange. They asked JR what toy BR was playing with, and then said something like 'did it have stickers?' and JR said it was some kind of a car or transformer type toy, and yes it had stickers too. They planted the idea.

I wondered whether BR had already told them he was playing with stickers.

 

[singularity]

The police line of questioning to JR was very strange. They asked JR what toy BR was playing with, and then said something like 'did it have stickers?' and JR said it was some kind of a car or transformer type toy, and yes it had stickers too. They planted the idea.

I wondered whether BR had already told them he was playing with stickers.

Good god. Sounds like the Smit interview. I have to get a CAT scan in a couple hours but when I get home I think I'll dive in to that "interrogation" again. It doesn't really offer anything of substance but its got a few tidbits here and there.

Smit's MO during that is to give John the answers before he asks the questions. At some point Smit even tells John it was an intruder. My favorite part is when they are discussing how items in the basement have been moved around between pics taken during the "kidnapping" phase and pics taken after her body was discovered and both men just sit there dancing around the fact that the only person on earth who could've moved those items is John.

When reading the John-Smit interview I always expect Rod Serling to jump in and tell me where my next stop is.

 

[Tortoise]

Be thinking of you singularity!

 

[AB1]

I found it interesting in your link (I've seen reference to this before in mention of JBR's medical records) that Patsy reported to Dr Beuf in August 1996 that JonBenet was asking about sex roles and reproduction.

I've also seen it mentioned in Dr Hodges' book A Mother Gone Bad that JonBenet had a dream that she had a baby, and I think if I remember correctly, in the dream she was in a castle with Patsy. I need to go back and look again to see if he mentions how he came to know about that information about her dream.


I know it's not about the knife, but this got me to thinking about why a 6 year old would be preoccupied enough (if it was around about the same time frame as the doctor visit) to have a dream about having a baby. It'd be different if the family was having a new baby but I would think quite extraordinary otherwise in the life of a 6 year old.

BBM

Did any family members of close friends have or were expecting a baby?
I suppose she could have heard her mother talking about the effects of cancer treatment etc.

But yes, without context, that's a surprising dream.
I would be interested to know Dr Hodges' source. I haven't read the book.

 

[Tortoise]

BBM

Did any family members of close friends have or were expecting a baby?
I suppose she could have heard her mother talking about the effects of cancer treatment etc.

But yes, without context, that's a surprising dream.
I would be interested to know Dr Hodges' source. I haven't read the book.

I looked it up today. It was a dream that JonBenet had mentioned to Ariana Pugh (LHP's 13 year old daughter).

Hodges was talking about the fact that people thought it strange that JR wasn't in the dream, and his view was that JR was the wall around the castle, that JBR was keeping him outside the castle, where she was safe, and like a princess.

I think he interpreted it wrong. I think in most fairy tales the people in the castle are locked up and imprisoned. I suppose it's subjective and there can be different interpretations, depending on whether you think he was abusing her.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I'd like to know what else he was doing downstairs. Burke's big enchilada was that N64. For the average kid that Christmas who received one, all other toys would've taken a backseat and not just on Christmas but for days. She would've wanted to play it too.

It's no wonder the original BDI revolved around it.

Can someone refresh my memory.....

Exactly how many TVs were in the house?

Re: bolded, are you trying to figure out if Burke went downstairs for the Nintendo? He said in one of his interviews his old Nintendo was hooked up to the TV in his room. JB had a tv in her room and JAR had a bunch of tapes in his room so he probably had one. JR and PR had a tv in their bedroom. I assume they had at least one more in the living room or something, but beyond that no idea.

 

[Tortoise]

Re: bolded, are you trying to figure out if Burke went downstairs for the Nintendo? He said in one of his interviews his old Nintendo was hooked up to the TV in his room. JB had a tv in her room and JAR had a bunch of tapes in his room so he probably had one. JR and PR had a tv in their bedroom. I assume they had at least one more in the living room or something, but beyond that no idea.

The room near the garage is also sometimes referred to as the tv room, and sometimes as the den.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

kanzz, re: B using the knife for threats vs a tool

I've been going through old tabloid articles from 1998/99 when the grand jury was still in session and one "leak" from police that shows up a few times is that sticky residue thought to be from the duct tape was found on Burke's monographed knife in the basement. I've never seen that corroborated by a reliable source but the tabs were surprisingly accurate with a lot of their leaks that have now been confirmed. Just something to think about.

 

[AB1]

kanzz, re: B using the knife for threats vs a tool

I've been going through old tabloid articles from 1998/99 when the grand jury was still in session and one "leak" from police that shows up a few times is that sticky residue thought to be from the duct tape was found on Burke's monographed knife in the basement. I've never seen that corroborated by a reliable source but the tabs were surprisingly accurate with a lot of their leaks that have now been confirmed. Just something to think about.

Is the monogramed knife definitely the "whittling" knife that the housekeeper said she hid in a cupboard in the laundry area on the 1st floor?
From memory, didn't she say that she told PR and JR where she had put the knife?
So BR wouldn't know unless a parent told him/returned it or he went searching for it. Would he put a big effort into finding it when he supposedly had another knife? Then again, children do get stubborn over their favourite things.

 

[UKGuy]

How do you interpret that to being in the basement?

Tortoise,
Because that is where JR said he helped Burke construct some toy before going to bed.

If not, then it must be some other toy?

.

 

[kanzz]

kanzz, re: B using the knife for threats vs a tool

I've been going through old tabloid articles from 1998/99 when the grand jury was still in session and one "leak" from police that shows up a few times is that sticky residue thought to be from the duct tape was found on Burke's monographed knife in the basement. I've never seen that corroborated by a reliable source but the tabs were surprisingly accurate with a lot of their leaks that have now been confirmed. Just something to think about.

Thanks for the 411. I hadn't read that. And yes, the tabs were often correct. Hell, they were fed info from BPD and the DA's office! I doubt if it would be corroborated. Somebody would have to tattle on him/herself.

 

[Tortoise]

Tortoise,
Because that is where JR said he helped Burke construct some toy before going to bed.

If not, then it must be some other toy?

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No, that isn't what JR said. He said he helped him with a toy in the living room, next to the Christmas tree.

 

[mandystrange70]

It's fantasy. It's taking what is known and trying to fit it into the evidence, rather than letting the evidence speak for itself. Like you say, if that's how some want to approach the case, so be it, but I don't agree with that approach.

Have you actually read any of their books? You are quite entitled to have this view, but after reading just one article its a bit unfair to accuse them of trying to fit the evidence to whats known. They do tremendous research, and over each trilogy, explain their whole narrative. You can agree or disagree with their findings, but please don't judge them on a few hundred words.

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