Was Burke Involved? # 4

[singularity]

"I'm not surprised they would send it with Burke when he left. It was almost a perfect pacifier."

You're not kidding. If you want to keep a kid quiet, sit him in front of his gaming system of choice and TRY to make him answer your questions. Not happening.

IF the case is BDI, a bit ironic that hours after murdering her he is playing a game(Mario) where one of the main objectives is to "save the princess".

 

[BoldBear]

There's also a lot of chaos in JAR's room and even though we don't see a TV in the pics, you're right that the stack of videos certainly insinuates one was in his room.

This was also Patsy's recovery room. TV is a good distraction when you're sick. I wish someone was out there who could answer the really stupid questions. Anyone associated with the case is probably really sick of it.

Sorry to hear about the medical issues. It's so difficult when you go to a doctor and they can't figure out what's going on. I hate that part.

 

[andreww]

Singularity, I'm still inclined to believe his Nintendo was in his room (especially since he took it with him the next morning, seems more convenient, unless JR or FW ran downstairs to disconnect it for him before he left) but those are some interesting thoughts about where it could have been hooked up.

I'm a little younger than Burke and I remember what a big deal the N64 was! My cousin could plant himself in front of that thing for hours without pause and he never wanted to let me play. I'm still a little bitter about it if you couldn't tell! When we'd play together he'd get my character killed off so he could play alone.

Of course it was in his room. Burke an JB likely went straight up there after the party. What the Ramseys have done is clever, not allowing either child to be alone in their version of events ensures that the police will not fixate on interviewing Burke as they presumably already have reliable accounts of those events from the parents.

It's also interesting how vague Johns description of the toy they assembled was. He never did that, I'm sure of it.


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[CorallaroC]

Well something just clicked in my head, and I feel a bit stupid for not thinking about it before now...

So BR's Swiss knife was placed in the cabinet above the sink on the landing below JBR's bedroom, the same landing where PR says she fiddled around with the red jumpsuit before going down the last segment of spiral staircase and found the note, and the same landing where LE found a "thin blade knife" which they showed pics to PR who says she thinks it is a "grapefruit knife" and she expresses her confusion/lack of knowledge why the knife was even there at all.

OKAY. Now I'm convinced that A knife/THE knife is probably more important than I had given it credit before.

 

[Miz Adventure]

First of all - good luck Singularity. I hope all goes well with your scan results.



As for the knife - is it really significant? Nobody got stabbed.

If the killer needed something to cut tape or cord with, there were probably scissors in the basement anyway because PR was wrapping presents down there. (Or so she says).

 

[Userid]

Just something to consider about the Nintendo 64: perhaps it wasn't in his room because if it was, he'd be up all night playing it? There were many thing the R's did as parents that simply boggle my mind (like housing JBR in that room on the opposite side of the house, right by that spiral staircase by the door, etc.), so if it was, it certainly wouldn't surprise me -- but if I were a parent, I wouldn't let him have it in his room.

Also, although technically a BR gift, I could see them setting it up in the family room. I had two siblings growing up, and this was a necessity in order to allow everyone to play. JBR would have wanted to play with it also -- there's little doubt in my mind.

Did the "game room" area between their two bedrooms have a TV and seating area? I want to say it didn't, but if so, that would also be a logical place to set up a gaming system where everyone would be able to play it.

 

[kanzz]

First of all - good luck Singularity. I hope all goes well with your scan results.

As for the knife - is it really significant? Nobody got stabbed.

If the killer needed something to cut tape or cord with, there were probably scissors in the basement anyway because PR was wrapping presents down there. (Or so she says).

I guess we don't really know whether or not the knife is significant.

But it does seem peculiar that:
BR's knife was found down the hall. (On the counter in the laundry room.)
BR spoke of a knife 13 days after JB died. (Which is thought to be before this info was known publicly, IIRC.)
Tape residue was on that knife? (I still haven't had time to verify that info.)

JR/PR even wrote about it in DOI. "I wondered if, as they walked through the basement, any of the jurors brought up the issue of Burke's red Swiss army knife, which according to the media had been found on the countertop near a sink, just a short distance from where JonBenet's body was found. The implication was that the killer could have used the knife to cut the nylon cord used to tied (sic) JonBenet's wrists together. The cord was also used to make the garrote placed around her neck, which ultimately resulted in her death by strangulation. Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, our cleaning lady, had said on a TV talk show that she thought the issue of the knife was relevant to the murder."

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I guess we don't really know whether or not the knife is significant.

But it does seem peculiar that:
BR's knife was found down the hall. (On the counter in the laundry room.)
BR spoke of a knife 13 days after JB died. (Which is thought to be before this info was known publicly, IIRC.)
Tape residue was on that knife? (I still haven't had time to verify that info.)

JR/PR even wrote about it in DOI. "I wondered if, as they walked through the basement, any of the jurors brought up the issue of Burke's red Swiss army knife, which according to the media had been found on the countertop near a sink, just a short distance from where JonBenet's body was found. The implication was that the killer could have used the knife to cut the nylon cord used to tied (sic) JonBenet's wrists together. The cord was also used to make the garrote placed around her neck, which ultimately resulted in her death by strangulation. Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, our cleaning lady, had said on a TV talk show that she thought the issue of the knife was relevant to the murder."

I don't think the tape residue will ever be confirmed but here's the page where I found tabloid reports on it:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060820085807/http://joshua-7.com/jonbenet/archives.htm
I wonder if it might be mentioned in the Bonita Papers as well.

I'm sure they were able to forensically determine if the cord was cut with scissors or a knife and same with the tape, whether it was torn or cut with a knife/scissors.but I don't think that info was released either.

Very interesting that the Ramseys wrote about it in the book. I have it ($1, thrift store) but lack the stomach to read it.
- in contrast to supposed police leaks to tabloids focusing on the tape, they connect the knife to the cord.
- and they cleverly omit the reason WHY Linda thought it was relevant - it pointed to them! I wonder why they even went down that road.

The tabs also made the point that he mentioned a knife was at the scene before it was publicly known back in 1998. It's intriguing but what really puzzles me about the timeline for Burke knowing things is that by the 28th he was discussing how JB was strangled with DS (per Kolar's book). But in January when he made his famous, "I know what happened" comment, he doesn't mention she was strangled at all. So why say he knew what happened but not say what we know he knew?


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[Userid]

^ But both ends of the tape were ripped (not cut), so if there even was tape residue recovered from the knife, wouldn't it be possible to assume it came from some other piece of tape (i.e. not the one found on JBR)? Just thinking aloud.

 

[Miz Adventure]

The entire length of tape may have been used.

If there was a lengthy piece of tape then whoever killed JBR may have used up the remainder by looping it around her wrists, and hence the long gap between her 'tied' hands.

 

[andreww]

First of all - good luck Singularity. I hope all goes well with your scan results.



As for the knife - is it really significant? Nobody got stabbed.

If the killer needed something to cut tape or cord with, there were probably scissors in the basement anyway because PR was wrapping presents down there. (Or so she says).

Very significant actually. Its an item that's location was known only by the Ramseys. It really calls in to question any idea of an intruder, and it is further evidence that Burke may have been there. Certainly the parents would not have used burke's knife in the commission of this crime, in fact quite the opposite. So ask yourself again, why was it there?

 

[AB1]

I don't think the tape residue will ever be confirmed but here's the page where I found tabloid reports on it:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060820085807/http://joshua-7.com/jonbenet/archives.htm
I wonder if it might be mentioned in the Bonita Papers as well.

I'm sure they were able to forensically determine if the cord was cut with scissors or a knife and same with the tape, whether it was torn or cut with a knife/scissors.but I don't think that info was released either.

Very interesting that the Ramseys wrote about it in the book. I have it ($1, thrift store) but lack the stomach to read it.
- in contrast to supposed police leaks to tabloids focusing on the tape, they connect the knife to the cord.
- and they cleverly omit the reason WHY Linda thought it was relevant - it pointed to them! I wonder why they even went down that road.

The tabs also made the point that he mentioned a knife was at the scene before it was publicly known back in 1998. It's intriguing but what really puzzles me about the timeline for Burke knowing things is that by the 28th he was discussing how JB was strangled with DS (per Kolar's book). But in January when he made his famous, "I know what happened" comment, he doesn't mention she was strangled at all. So why say he knew what happened but not say what we know he knew?


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BBM
Bonita Papers do not reference residue on a knife. The only knife reference I could find is to one alleged found in the wine cellar:

"A red Swiss army knife was also found lying in the corner of the room away from the blanket."

 

[icedtea4me]

BBM
Bonita Papers do not reference residue on a knife. The only knife reference I could find is to one alleged found in the wine cellar:

"A red Swiss army knife was also found lying in the corner of the room away from the blanket."

JonBenet's brother Burke, 9 at the time of the murder, was in the habit of wandering around the family's Boulder home whittling with his Swiss Army knife.

He'd trail shavings behind him so often that Hoffmann-Pugh warned she'd take away the knife if he didn't become more tidy.

He didn't. About a month before JonBenet's murder, Hoffmann-Pugh made good on her threat.

"I got tired of cleaning it up," she said. "He'd been asked to do it over paper or a bag or something. So, I just put the knife up one day, in a cupboard over the sink in that area outside of JonBenet's room" on the home's second level, an area that also had a microwave and laundry facilities.

Hoffmann-Pugh never saw the knife again.

But it resurfaced.

Included in the exhaustive inventory of items removed from the house following the 10 -day police search: "red pocket knife w/broken ornament" from the family's basement.

Specifically, Detective Kerry Yamaguchi discovered Burke's knife on a countertop near a sink just down a basement corridor from the small basement room where JonBenet's body was found.

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-knives.htm

 

[AB1]

JonBenet's brother Burke, 9 at the time of the murder, was in the habit of wandering around the family's Boulder home whittling with his Swiss Army knife.

He'd trail shavings behind him so often that Hoffmann-Pugh warned she'd take away the knife if he didn't become more tidy.

He didn't. About a month before JonBenet's murder, Hoffmann-Pugh made good on her threat.

"I got tired of cleaning it up," she said. "He'd been asked to do it over paper or a bag or something. So, I just put the knife up one day, in a cupboard over the sink in that area outside of JonBenet's room" on the home's second level, an area that also had a microwave and laundry facilities.

Hoffmann-Pugh never saw the knife again.

But it resurfaced.

Included in the exhaustive inventory of items removed from the house following the 10 -day police search: "red pocket knife w/broken ornament" from the family's basement.

Specifically, Detective Kerry Yamaguchi discovered Burke's knife on a countertop near a sink just down a basement corridor from the small basement room where JonBenet's body was found.

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-knives.htm

Yes 41KKY.

In checking if the Bonita papers mentioned residue on a knife (as queried by the poster) I noted there wasn't such a reference and the only mention of a knife was one found in the wine cellar. Unless this knife is the redacted evidence listed in the warrant inventory, then Bonita is wrong.
Yet another inconsistency within the Bonita "story".

 

[Ambitioned]

"I'm not surprised they would send it with Burke when he left. It was almost a perfect pacifier."

You're not kidding. If you want to keep a kid quiet, sit him in front of his gaming system of choice and TRY to make him answer your questions. Not happening.

Yup, could also have been used as a bribe. "Don't talk to anyone or we will take away the Nintendo." It's enough to strike cold fear in a boy's heart.

 

[UKGuy]

BBM
Bonita Papers do not reference residue on a knife. The only knife reference I could find is to one alleged found in the wine cellar:

"A red Swiss army knife was also found lying in the corner of the room away from the blanket."

AB1,
I've always assumed that the knife was found in the wine-cellar, and that it belonged to BR.

I vaguely remember some investigator confirming this, but it might just be bias on my part.

I think it's location along with LHP's statement was used to place PR in the wine-cellar on the basis, she was only one in the house that knew where it had been hidden.

Yet in his interview BR never mentioned that his knife was missing. So the possibility arises that Patsy simply returned it to BR for a quiet life?

Alternatively Patsy used the knife whilst busy staging the wine-cellar crime-scene?

This appears to be a stronger interpretation than one which focus's on BR.

.

 

[singularity]

.

It's also interesting how vague Johns description of the toy they assembled was. He never did that, I'm sure of it.


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Yeah he doesn't really seem like the type to involve himself with his children to that extent. He'd probably tell Burke he's busy and yell for Patsy to take care of it.

I need to go back and look how he worded that in the transcripts but you're right.....he wont actually go on record and specifically name the toy they were working on. Its not something a father would forget. My dad is dead but if we held a seance, he'd be able to remember the Christmas of 1984 when I got Megatron(a transformer) and it was hard for me to tranform him back into the gun. He had to do it several times throughout the day until I figured it out. He could recall it easily and then take into account I wasn't murdered. Had I been murdered that night, his memory of it would've stood out even more.

Also, although technically a BR gift, I could see them setting it up in the family room. I had two siblings growing up, and this was a necessity in order to allow everyone to play. JBR would have wanted to play with it also -- there's little doubt in my mind.

Absolutely. Had they filmed during Christmas there would likely be footage of those two going back and forth saying "Its my turn!".



When looking up what N64 offered during its launch I was surprised at the lack of games aimed specifically towards girls. Of course girls can play Mario just as well as boys can but a bit shortsighted by Nintendo not to have launch titles aimed at girls although they did later on, Mia Hamm soccer for starters.

In reality, even though Jonbenet would've loved playing it, she was a tad too young for N64. Not that the games are too mature but the fact those N64 controllers are not really suited for such young children. Yeah us 80s kids had Atari at 6-7 years old and played Pac-Man, Asteroids, and Pitfall til the cows came home but N64 was much more complex than the Atari joystick with one button. There was a learning curve to getting down those controls even for teens/adults. The main reason I preferred PS and Dreamcast over N64 was that controller. It was awkward in your hands.

She'd be able to play it but wouldn't actually be passing any levels.

The tabs also made the point that he mentioned a knife was at the scene before it was publicly known back in 1998. It's intriguing but what really puzzles me about the timeline for Burke knowing things is that by the 28th he was discussing how JB was strangled with DS (per Kolar's book). But in January when he made his famous, "I know what happened" comment, he doesn't mention she was strangled at all. So why say he knew what happened but not say what we know he knew?


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The problem with any potentially incriminating statements coming from Burke in that timeframe is the fact he was around all the adults and hearing them speak about her murder. Had he been immediately taken in for questioning and started describing certain things he shouldn't know unless he was involved or a witness, then it would be a huge red flag.

Yup, could also have been used as a bribe. "Don't talk to anyone or we will take away the Nintendo." It's enough to strike cold fear in a boy's heart.

Funny you would say that as I was once grounded from using mine for a week. In early 88 I got a detention for "insubordination"(arguing with my teacher) and since I was too old to be spanked, one of my punishments was no Nintendo.

I was 13 at that point so it wasn't really that bad. Had it happened at 9-10, would've been a devastating punishment. The end of the world.I would've preferred a whipping.

Very significant actually. Its an item that's location was known only by the Ramseys. It really calls in to question any idea of an intruder, and it is further evidence that Burke may have been there. Certainly the parents would not have used burke's knife in the commission of this crime, in fact quite the opposite. So ask yourself again, why was it there?

If one of the knives(or even both of them) were truly in the mix that night during the actual crime or the leadup to it, there's really only two possibilities...

Burke using it to possibly chase Jonbenet

Patsy grabbing it and holding it during an argument with John

I'm sure there's other scenarios that can be imagined but IMO those would be the most likely.

 

[AB1]

AB1,
I've always assumed that the knife was found in the wine-cellar, and that it belonged to BR.

I vaguely remember some investigator confirming this, but it might just be bias on my part.

I think it's location along with LHP's statement was used to place PR in the wine-cellar on the basis, she was only one in the house that knew where it had been hidden.

Yet in his interview BR never mentioned that his knife was missing. So the possibility arises that Patsy simply returned it to BR for a quiet life?

Alternatively Patsy used the knife whilst busy staging the wine-cellar crime-scene?

This appears to be a stronger interpretation than one which focus's on BR.

.

PR "staging" BR's knife in the wine cellar seems odd if she was trying to divert attention away from BR, knowing LHP and others could identify it as such.
Then again, she DID write the RN, either confident she could brazen it out, or more likely in desperation, trying to create an intruder scenario. The knife would fit with that narrative. I can imagine her working through her list of clichés:
Ransom note - check
Threatening weapon - check
Tie wrists and tape mouth - check
I'm disappointed the R's didn't think of footprints in the snow. Smit would have been so happy.

It's possible both of BR's knives were in the basement. One being 41KKY (found near the sink). The other being one of the two (by my reasoning) redacted items found in the wine cellar.

The extract from BR's interview is so frustrating. Both Schuler and Burke spoke in present tense, as if Burke still had his knives.
I wish we could see the full transcripts or - better still - the tapes.

 

[Cranberry]

RSBM
Funny you would say that as I was once grounded from using mine for a week. In early 88 I got a detention for "insubordination"(arguing with my teacher) and since I was too old to be spanked, one of my punishments was no Nintendo.


Everyone on the JBR forum knows singularity is never too old to be spanked! ha ha Cranberry told a joke

 

[Rott Mom]

Keep in mind when BR was interviewed - they asked him what he thought what happened to his sister...He immediately thought
a knife was brought out.