Was Burke Involved? # 4

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Is the monogramed knife definitely the "whittling" knife that the housekeeper said she hid in a cupboard in the laundry area on the 1st floor?
From memory, didn't she say that she told PR and JR where she had put the knife?
So BR wouldn't know unless a parent told him/returned it or he went searching for it. Would he put a big effort into finding it when he supposedly had another knife? Then again, children do get stubborn over their favourite things.

According to LHP, she didn't tell JR or PR where she had hidden the knife:
"Hoffmann-Pugh said she didn't tell JonBenet's parents where she stowed Burke's knife."
Evidence - Knives

But I'd be willing to bet that he had hunted for that thing from the time LHP had taken it from him and once he'd found it, he had kept it in a secret place until that night.
 
Have you actually read any of their books? You are quite entitled to have this view, but after reading just one article its a bit unfair to accuse them of trying to fit the evidence to whats known. They do tremendous research, and over each trilogy, explain their whole narrative. You can agree or disagree with their findings, but please don't judge them on a few hundred words.

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I just read the entire website (every posting), so yes, I've read them. And I'm not necessarily judging them as much as I'm simply disagreeing with their approach, there's a difference.
 
I just read the entire website (every posting), so yes, I've read them. And I'm not necessarily judging them as much as I'm simply disagreeing with their approach, there's a difference.
Fair enough, that was all i was asking. Thank you.

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According to LHP, she didn't tell JR or PR where she had hidden the knife:
"Hoffmann-Pugh said she didn't tell JonBenet's parents where she stowed Burke's knife."
Evidence - Knives

But I'd be willing to bet that he had hunted for that thing from the time LHP had taken it from him and once he'd found it, he had kept it in a secret place until that night.
LHP has also given an account of telling Patsy where she put the knife.
 
LHP has also given an account of telling Patsy where she put the knife.

See, this is what drives me bonkers about this case (and pretty much every other unsolved case like it): there are always differing accounts. In the article above, it states, "Hoffmann-Pugh said she didn't tell JonBenet's parents where she stowed Burke's knife." But I'm sure you're right, I'm sure there's another that states she told PR -- so what should one believe?
 
See, this is what drives me bonkers about this case (and pretty much every other unsolved case like it): there are always differing accounts. In the article above, it states, "Hoffmann-Pugh said she didn't tell JonBenet's parents where she stowed Burke's knife." But I'm sure you're right, I'm sure there's another that states she told PR -- so what should one believe?

I believe that even if she hadn't told Patsy, Patsy would have seen it when she put the package of pull ups away.
 
Hi all...

We've got some pretty compelling stuff to share in regards to Burke's knife...

https://shakedowntitle.com/2016/12/07/jonbenet-ramsey-case-insights-1-burkes-knife/

Thanks for the link.

On the site it quotes the following: (their bold):
From the National Enquirer October 3, 2016 article – (these are portions of Burke’s 1998 interview with Detective Dan Schuler):
SCHULER: You have two knives?
BURKE: I have one that says my name on it – it has Switzerland on it.
SCHULER: Uh-huh.
BURKE: That one has a big knife, small knife, saw, corkscrew, screwdriver, flat head screwdriver, toothpick and tweezers. And I think that’s it. And then I have another one that has a saw, scissors, it’s got this little hook thing that you tie knots better with. Um, I said saw? A cork opener.
SCHULER: Both of those Swiss Army knives?
BURKE: One knife is smaller.
SCHULER: Where do you normally keep those? In your scouting stuff?
BURKE: I think I like (inaudible) and I have a little place for them in my room.
SCHULER: Did you take them both camping with you?
BURKE: I just took the —
SCHULER: The one with your name on it?
BURKE: No.
SCHULER: Oh, okay. So somebody must have given you that one, for a special occasion?
BURKE: My mom.


At the start of the extract Schuler says "you have two knives", not had.
So, were they discussing knives BR had at the time of the interview or at the time of JBR's death? Could they have been talking at cross purposes with Schuler meaning Dec 96 and BR thinking in the present?
Perhaps there is something said before the excerpt begins that would clarify the issue. But from this extract, BR is talking about knives in the present tense only.

I also note BR demonstrates good attention to detail, listing the various attachments on the knives. I couldn't tell someone what is on the keyring I use every day!
 
Burke certainly knew his knives, although I reckon it's not that unusual for a 10 or 11 year old boy to be very into pocket knives. But now we have what sounds like confirmation directly from Burke that he tied knots, and even knew which tool helped tie better knots. Doesn't prove anything; just interesting to note.
 
Wow. I have to wonder why Charlie Brennan reported it differently. And I wonder if this was ever part of a police interview?

I believe (because I recognize the link and the sensationalist tone) that this is from the "first chapter" of LHP's unpublished book and iirc it was technically written by her lawyer, Darnay Hoffman, not Linda. So I would trust what Charlie Brennan says (what DID CB say?) over this. If anyone knows more about the history of that excerpt/how it got online I'd be thankful. I would love transcripts of LHP's police interviews but alas I doubt we'll ever see them unless the case files are made public (when hell freezes over).

I find the topic of Burke's knives, plural, hard to untangle, especially in light of the transcript portion posted above. LHP saw crime scene photos and identified the knife to police as the one she took from Burke. The tabloid reports about the knife from 1998 I mentioned earlier specify that the knife found in the basement had his initials/monogram/etc on it and now we know directly from Burke he had one like that. My guess is that the monogrammed knife is the one in evidence but it's unclear if he's indicating he still has it at the time of the interview so we can't say for sure.
 
I believe (because I recognize the link and the sensationalist tone) that this is from the "first chapter" of LHP's unpublished book and iirc it was technically written by her lawyer, Darnay Hoffman, not Linda. So I would trust what Charlie Brennan says (what DID CB say?) over this. If anyone knows more about the history of that excerpt/how it got online I'd be thankful. I would love transcripts of LHP's police interviews but alas I doubt we'll ever see them unless the case files are made public (when hell freezes over).

I find the topic of Burke's knives, plural, hard to untangle, especially in light of the transcript portion posted above. LHP saw crime scene photos and identified the knife to police as the one she took from Burke. The tabloid reports about the knife from 1998 I mentioned earlier specify that the knife found in the basement had his initials/monogram/etc on it and now we know directly from Burke he had one like that. My guess is that the monogrammed knife is the one in evidence but it's unclear if he's indicating he still has it at the time of the interview so we can't say for sure.

Although the link to the original piece at the Denver Rocky Mountain News is broken, it is copied in its entirety at FFJ:
Red knife a Ramsey mystery
Housekeeper who hid tool wonders how it reappeared, doubts intruder theory
By Charlie Brennan
 
Be thinking of you singularity!
Thanks. It was definitely the scariest scan I've had yet. Drinking the two bottles of barium was no problem but I wound up needing an IV before and during the scan(I have a needle phobia). There is a miniscule chance of your body having a severe reaction to it and they wait five minutes before starting the scan to make sure you are doing ok. I started feeling a bit weird but other than that, it was smooth sailing.

I should know within a few days if I have bladder cancer. Been dealing with this health scare for months and one way or the other, glad to finally get the test that will truly rule it in or out. I didn't trust my doctor's previous opinion that "I had nothing to worry about". To anyone here reading who may have some health issues and your doctor says everything is peaches and cream, be on the safe side and get a second opinion.


Now back to the discussion....

Patsy reported to Dr Beuf in August 1996 that JonBenet was asking about sex roles and reproduction.
Interesting. I forgot about that.

I've also seen it mentioned in Dr Hodges' book A Mother Gone Bad that JonBenet had a dream that she had a baby,
I need to read that book.


@DrollForeignFaction

are you trying to figure out if Burke went downstairs for the Nintendo?
Yes. He would've been jumping for joy when getting that for his present. It was THE hot gift in 96. Many kids didn't get one due to the low supply. We know that the kids played it together at some point that day. I assume that while being at the Whites, he would've been anticipating playing it more when he got home. Its the main reason I question John's sincerity regarding putting together a toy with Burke later that night. I doubt he would've cared much about legos, transformers, or whatever the other gifts were.

The reason I ask about the amount of TVs is the fact it only takes a couple minutes to hook up a N64 to another TV. JUst as an example, lets say John wants to play Mario with his son but doesn't want to do so in his bedroom. They could easily hook it up in the living room. John goes to bed or at least upstairs, this means the N64 is still down there.......a very good reason for Burke to want to go back downstairs. Another example would be Jonbenet throwing a fit wanting to play it too but wants it in her room, so John and/or Patsy hook it up in her room for awhile. There's also a lot of chaos in JAR's room and even though we don't see a TV in the pics, you're right that the stack of videos certainly insinuates one was in his room.

I just looked up the N64 to see exactly what it came with at launch. You could buy two games(Mario and Pilotwings) and its pretty much a guarantee that Burke got both. Now that I think about it, John might have had some interest in playing a bit of Pilotwings with Burke. The console came with one controller so any extra would have been bought separately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilotwings_64

(For those not interested in consoles/games and/or don't wish to read that link, Pilotwings is one of the first flight simulators)

Nintendo released these games for the 96 holiday shopping season:

Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Wave Race 64
Wayne Gretzky's Hockey
Killer Instinct
Cruisin' USA
Star Wars

N64 accessories sold included the rumble pak(makes controllers vibrate), controller pack(memory card), S-Video cable(theorized as one of the possible strangulation devices in old BDI theories), etc. N64 also had a glove controller and steering wheel for racing games although I don't see a release date for those two items so they might not have been available at that time.


John mentions Burke and stickers? NIntendo had promo stickers up the wazoo that year. Maybe Burke is one of the types that liked putting stickers on his console or maybe even the controller(s).


Dollars to donuts this was a stocking stuffer for Burke.....

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Although the link to the original piece at the Denver Rocky Mountain News is broken, it is copied in its entirety at FFJ:
Red knife a Ramsey mystery
Housekeeper who hid tool wonders how it reappeared, doubts intruder theory
By Charlie Brennan

Thank you! Some thoughts:
- just to supplement my comment about Hoffman writing the excerpt in question & his credibility, he was staunchly PDI so I can see him phrasing whatever Linda (also PDI) actually said to be that she had told Patsy where the knife was because he wanted to make a point: that Patsy was most likely to find the knife. The insinuation in both pieces is that an intruder wouldn't find the hidden knife and Patsy would be the most likely person to find it. Hoffman was probably cutting corners.
TL;DR: LHP probably did tell the cops (and CB probably was told) that she never told anyone where the knife was, and Hoffman probably connected the dots on his own when he (basically) stated Patsy knew where the knife was.

- I never noticed in previous readings of that article that the cupboard the knife was in was above the sink. Not to discount the craftiness and monkey-like ability to climb little boys possess but if that's true, it sounds more like a place an adult would find something. Particularly Patsy. Besides Linda she would be the only person regularly working in that area.

But assuming Burke did find his hidden knife before JB's murder:
- in one of the podcasts, I think the last one, Jim Clemente brought up the little cubby hole Burke told Schuler he hid his knives in. I can't recall why but he thought that was significant somehow.
 
Thank you! Some thoughts:
- just to supplement my comment about Hoffman writing the excerpt in question & his credibility, he was staunchly PDI so I can see him phrasing whatever Linda (also PDI) actually said to be that she had told Patsy where the knife was because he wanted to make a point: that Patsy was most likely to find the knife. The insinuation in both pieces is that an intruder wouldn't find the hidden knife and Patsy would be the most likely person to find it. Hoffman was probably cutting corners.
TL;DR: LHP probably did tell the cops (and CB probably was told) that she never told anyone where the knife was, and Hoffman probably connected the dots on his own when he (basically) stated Patsy knew where the knife was.

- I never noticed in previous readings of that article that the cupboard the knife was in was above the sink. Not to discount the craftiness and monkey-like ability to climb little boys possess but if that's true, it sounds more like a place an adult would find something. Particularly Patsy. Besides Linda she would be the only person regularly working in that area.

But assuming Burke did find his hidden knife before JB's murder:
- in one of the podcasts, I think the last one, Jim Clemente brought up the little cubby hole Burke told Schuler he hid his knives in. I can't recall why but he thought that was significant somehow.
ALL of what you said - plus, I wouldn't put it past PR to cave into BR's begging (if it came to that and he hadn't already found it himself) and just give him the knife, with the promise that he wouldn't tell LHP. After all, what right did the hired help have to take away her son's personal property and hide it?
 
Singularity, I'm still inclined to believe his Nintendo was in his room (especially since he took it with him the next morning, seems more convenient, unless JR or FW ran downstairs to disconnect it for him before he left) but those are some interesting thoughts about where it could have been hooked up.

I'm a little younger than Burke and I remember what a big deal the N64 was! My cousin could plant himself in front of that thing for hours without pause and he never wanted to let me play. I'm still a little bitter about it if you couldn't tell! When we'd play together he'd get my character killed off so he could play alone.
 
ALL of what you said - plus, I wouldn't put it past PR to cave into BR's begging (if it came to that and he hadn't already found it himself) and just give him the knife, with the promise that he wouldn't tell LHP.

Yes, that reminds me of LHP's comments in PMPT where she stated that Patsy really didn't discipline the kids and let them just drop things wherever they wanted without a thought about how Linda would be stuck cleaning it up later. Even Nedra would criticize Patsy saying LHP was being paid to clean, not pick up junk. LHP asked her to take care of the whittling problem and only took the knife away from Burke because Patsy wouldn't stop him. So if this happened a month prior as the article stated, that's plenty of time for Patsy to find the knife and Burke to whine and get it from her.

However, if that did happen it must have been very close to Christmas or he was smart enough not to leave any shavings around or LHP would have noticed.
 
Singularity, I'm still inclined to believe his Nintendo was in his room (especially since he took it with him the next morning, seems more convenient, unless JR or FW ran downstairs to disconnect it for him before he left) but those are some interesting thoughts about where it could have been hooked up.

I'm a little younger than Burke and I remember what a big deal the N64 was! My cousin could plant himself in front of that thing for hours without pause and he never wanted to let me play. I'm still a little bitter about it if you couldn't tell! When we'd play together he'd get my character killed off so he could play alone.
I was 21 in 96 so no N64 for me. I did eventualy get one(a PS as well) but not the same priority as it is when you're a kid.

I did get the original NES for Christmas in the 80s and was blown away. I stayed up until about 2 or 3 am playing it. Basically played it almost non stop for days.

I'm not surprised they would send it with Burke when he left. It was almost a perfect pacifier.
 
"I'm not surprised they would send it with Burke when he left. It was almost a perfect pacifier."

You're not kidding. If you want to keep a kid quiet, sit him in front of his gaming system of choice and TRY to make him answer your questions. Not happening.
 
Yes, that reminds me of LHP's comments in PMPT where she stated that Patsy really didn't discipline the kids and let them just drop things wherever they wanted without a thought about how Linda would be stuck cleaning it up later. Even Nedra would criticize Patsy saying LHP was being paid to clean, not pick up junk. LHP asked her to take care of the whittling problem and only took the knife away from Burke because Patsy wouldn't stop him. So if this happened a month prior as the article stated, that's plenty of time for Patsy to find the knife and Burke to whine and get it from her.

However, if that did happen it must have been very close to Christmas or he was smart enough not to leave any shavings around or LHP would have noticed.

Yes, we're on the same train of thought here.
RE: "... he was smart enough not to leave any shavings around or LHP would have noticed." - He didn't want LHP to take it away from him again.
 
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