Was Burke Involved? # 4

[RL2]

I'm from Georgia and my hubby is from West Virginia. We would refer to JonBenet as our daughter.
Actually if that was me on the 911 call most of the sounds you would hear is me screaming that someone took my baby girl!!!!!!!! Her name is JonBenet! Don't you dare come in a cop car! They are gonna cut off my babies head if you do! FIND HER NOW!!!!! SCREEEEEEEECHHHHHHHH and I would have NEVER hung up the phone! Nor called friends over! Nor covered up the crime...... I may sound tough and this might sound cruel but I would have turned my son in if he did this. I know not everyone would do that I'm sure. But I have literally told my kids from an early age what to expect if they harm anyone else. I will not support them. :notgood: I swear I'm a sweetie but there are certain things I can't and won't tolerate. I refuse to. I've raised my children to take accountablility for their actions. When you apologize for something, state exactly what you are apologizing for. Acknowledge what you did to them. That you know it was wrong. That you have to hold yourself accountable for your own actions. It chaps my hide when I see people letting their kids get away with stuff. Then later wonder why their kids are in jail. Sometimes though... there are kids and adults who just can't be helped. They don't want to do right. They don't CARE. The parents do everything they can to steer them straight but to no avail. Sometimes you just have to say you did your best and let them suffer the consequences. (This is going on atm with a friend of mine ((not murder!)) and she's wondering what she did wrong... and she didn't do anything wrong. She did all she could to help them and its never been enough. She's had to wash her hands of her kid until he straightens up. If he ever does that is...)

The authorities would need to be taking my child away (if one of them did this to the other!) Like, send and ambulance and a police car for the psychotic one..

 

[RL2]

Yeah, why in the hell would Patsy even say "She's blonde...6 years old..." in the first place? Like that is her defining characteristic? Her bleached-blonde hair? The dispatcher wasn't even asking for a description at that point...

Then she said "I loved that child" when talking in front of cameras....Not "I loved JonBenet" or "I love my daughter" but "that child." Like just some kid...

Oh these people make me so angry!

She says "THAT child" with her eyes closed, through gritted teeth.

 

[PositiveLight]

The authorities would need to be taking my child away (if one of them did this to the other!) Like, send and ambulance and a police car for the psychotic one..

Exactly! I wouldn't want to live under the same roof as the deviant child. For all they knew he could've killed them in their sleep. I worry about Burkes girlfriend to be very honest.

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[PositiveLight]

She says "THAT child" with her eyes closed, through gritted teeth.

I noticed that too. Almost as if she was angry that 'that child' died and messed up their life. And poor Burke didn't get to go on the Disney cruise. She just seemed angry at JonBenet imho during that interview. Even when she said the keep your babies close her jaws seemed locked.

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[Karinna]

I noticed that too. Almost as if she was angry that 'that child' died and messed up their life. And poor Burke didn't get to go on the Disney cruise. She just seemed angry at JonBenet imho during that interview. Even when she said the keep your babies close her jaws seemed locked.

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yeah i noticed that too. It's very odd behaviour from a mother of a murdered child, IMO.

 

[TexMex]

She says "THAT child" with her eyes closed, through gritted teeth.

I don't read much into that. Some friends of ours had two of their kids (ages 16, 17) killed in a car accident. They loved them. Even right after the accident they often referred to them as "those kids" instead of their names. My interpretation was it was just too personal and painful to say their names, the ones they gave them even before birth.

 

[zencompass]

I agree with this because JonBenet was Patsy's life. Patsy continued to live within the pageant world (and win!) through JonBenet. Preparation
for the pageants must have taken up most of Patsy's time. Perhaps this was the only "joy" that Patsy felt in her life. Sad but possibly true.

 

[PositiveLight]

This could be true. I personally have no problems with the beauty pageants. I did them with my mama and loved it. I twirled since I was 4 and was at either a pageant or twirling contest every weekend. I think JonBenet really enjoyed it. She was a born performer. She was a little star in the making. She had such beautiful stage presence. That was a natural gift. I think it probably was one thing that made Patsy excited about life again after the Cancer. She was a gorgeous child. I know from experience she wasn't being sexualized by her mama at least in the pageants that is. Those costumes were JonBenet's favorite part of the competition. That's when she really lit up. I don't think the cowboy sweetheart outfit was sexy as some people say. The showgirl outfit also was similar to things I wore in pageants. I personally loved the talent and sportswear comps too. It was fun! Now if someone else was being a creep in the audience then that was on them. The pageant thing seemed to be a family affair too with her sisters and mom helping prepare. So I try not to be hard on PR about that part of her life. JonBenet was a born performer and she just had that extra wow factor that not all people have. She was outgoing and friendly and even a tomboy as many say. I think she enjoyed it. I know she told people that the trophies and crowns were really her mom's but if you think about it..
Maybe JonBenet didn't do the pageants to win. Maybe she did them because she enjoyed it and that was enough for her. I thought her dresses were very beautiful too. I'm just putting my two cents in here about it. Just felt like I needed to say that. I've experienced what that world is like and it's truly fun! You get to meet so many other kids and talk and play in between performances. I was very outgoing like JonBenet and I can see why she loved it.

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[RL2]

I wish Beth Holloway would speak out about the relationship she and JR had after PR's death.

I know! Locally (around Bham) it was a big deal, even though JR downplayed it. Funny, Beth took matters into her own hands when authorities in Aruba wouldn't do anything to Van der Sloot after Natalee's disappearance ..... the Van der Sloots and the Ramseys seem to have lots in common with all of the special treatment they receive due to their social/political standing..

 

[singularity]

I noticed that too. Almost as if she was angry that 'that child' died and messed up their life. And poor Burke didn't get to go on the Disney cruise. She just seemed angry at JonBenet imho during that interview. Even when she said the keep your babies close her jaws seemed locked.

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She's so stoned on downers at that point its a miracle she could even speak....much less form coherent sentences.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Maybe JonBenet didn't do the pageants to win. Maybe she did them because she enjoyed it and that was enough for her. I thought her dresses were very beautiful too. I'm just putting my two cents in here about it. Just felt like I needed to say that. I've experienced what that world is like and it's truly fun! You get to meet so many other kids and talk and play in between performances. I was very outgoing like JonBenet and I can see why she loved it.

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We'll never know, but there is a good chance she had no say in the matter. Pageants were Patsy's thing, and it's not normally something a child would even think about, let alone a 3 year old as Patsy claimed JonBenet was. I think for Patsy it was both a way to live through her daughter as well as bond and spend time with her given her precarious health.

There's no question JBR was an extrovert, but watching the videos available of her, she doesn't look like she's having a good time. To me she seems apprehensive and stressed. Pageants are not a thing in my neck of the woods, but I would think a kid who really loved doing this would look more natural - and generally appear to be having some fun.

Even kids who aren't overtly forced to perform may do it simply to please a parent. If I had to guess that's what's went on here. Makes me even sadder for her really. Her life was so short as it was, I hate to think she'd far rather have spent that time riding her bike or flying kites.

 

[ozazure]

This could be true. I personally have no problems with the beauty pageants. I did them with my mama and loved it. I twirled since I was 4 and was at either a pageant or twirling contest every weekend. I think JonBenet really enjoyed it. She was a born performer. She was a little star in the making. She had such beautiful stage presence. That was a natural gift. I think it probably was one thing that made Patsy excited about life again after the Cancer. She was a gorgeous child. I know from experience she wasn't being sexualized by her mama at least in the pageants that is. Those costumes were JonBenet's favorite part of the competition. That's when she really lit up. I don't think the cowboy sweetheart outfit was sexy as some people say. The showgirl outfit also was similar to things I wore in pageants. I personally loved the talent and sportswear comps too. It was fun! Now if someone else was being a creep in the audience then that was on them. The pageant thing seemed to be a family affair too with her sisters and mom helping prepare. So I try not to be hard on PR about that part of her life. JonBenet was a born performer and she just had that extra wow factor that not all people have. She was outgoing and friendly and even a tomboy as many say. I think she enjoyed it. I know she told people that the trophies and crowns were really her mom's but if you think about it..
Maybe JonBenet didn't do the pageants to win. Maybe she did them because she enjoyed it and that was enough for her. I thought her dresses were very beautiful too. I'm just putting my two cents in here about it. Just felt like I needed to say that. I've experienced what that world is like and it's truly fun! You get to meet so many other kids and talk and play in between performances. I was very outgoing like JonBenet and I can see why she loved it.

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We don't do pageants but we do competition dancing. I get what you are saying about the sexualisation of costumes - that within the culture of that world it is not out of place, but it is easy to forget that to outside eyes a child in heavy makeup, adult-like fancy clothes and styled hair is quite extreme. I initially found my daughter's stage makeup a bt unsettling, but now I am so used to it it is almost her face in my mind's eye. You grow acclimatised and don't have the same reactions others have, to stuff like buying g-strings and fishnets for 11 year olds. However I do think it contributes to a breaking down of boundaries in some people's lives. For example the dancing girls as a cohort dress a lot more provocatively for formal occasions than their peers. They are more comfortable exposing skin because they've worn costumes for years, which isn't necessarily a bad thing I guess, however I will still expect my daughter to wear something a bit more demure while she is still at school, especially going to school formal events.

It is funny because we were just discussing the invisible brothers last night. You'd not know that the handful of really stage mother types had any other kids. They sit and watch rehearsals for hours on end. Whole school holidays sucked up by competitions. When it is an only child or say there is only the two daughters and both do it, if everyone loves it, knock yourself out. But there are without a doubt families there were the lion's share of time goes into one child's hobby, and the mother is living through them. It's not bad because the kid who is the focus isn't interested in what they are doing, it is negative because the mother should have better boundaries and balance in the family.

 

[PositiveLight]

She's so stoned on downers at that point its a miracle she could even speak....much less form coherent sentences.

When was she not stoned. She still seemed to have an angry undertone when she was speaking in that interview. I don't know who she was angry at but she seemed torn between crying and tearing someone's eyes out. I think we've all been at that point sometime in our lives where your heart is so completely broken and you are so MAD someone did that to you. Now imagine if it was your child murdered. Take a minute and think if it was your only remaining child who possibly did it. That would cause that conflict in emotions. John wasn't mad at the killer remember? They wanted to know only 'why'. 6 days after their daughters brutal death in their own home. And they weren't mad? They didn't want justice? They just wanted to know why? I think PR wanted to just scream in that interview. There's no telling what occurred when they were alone with BR after the murder. Maybe he just smiled that creepy smile and she realized she protected a monster. After that, she had to stick to the story.
There's a video I see occasionally, it's a snippet of a outdoor scene with Patsy walking in front of John and Burke over a little bridge. It looks to be fall. Patsy picks up a pretty leaf for Burke to look at and lays it on the railing of the wooden bridge. Burke flicks it off the railing as if flicking of a disgusting bug. I honestly think that showed a crack in the perfect grieving family exterior. There was turmoil going on between the three of them. I think in a way, Patsy never forgave Burke. I think John had to shield Burke from Patsy. From her anger at him. I probably couldn't forgive my child either if he killed my other child.
Regardless if justice is ever found for JonBenet on Earth, I can tell they've suffered with the consequences of their actions that night. The parents have at least. BR I don't think felt anything when Jon Benet died. Just like that leaf he flicked, he flicked away JonBenet. This is just my opinion of course but I dont think Patsy found peace until she passed away. They lost everything trying to protect BR and their reputation. In a way, that is some justice.

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[CodeSiren]

I'm no expert in the case facts, but I've got a question for the BDI or even the RDI folks which I haven't seen addressed. (Personally, I lean towards BDI and the parents covered it up). But my question is this - if the theory is that someone in the family struck her in the head, and the garrote was staging, did the person(s) doing the staging realize JB was still alive? Did they carry out the staging and not realize at the time that they in fact killed her by asphyxiating her? Thanks in advance!

 

[kanzz]

I'm no expert in the case facts, but I've got a question for the BDI or even the RDI folks which I haven't seen addressed. (Personally, I lean towards BDI and the parents covered it up). But my question is this - if the theory is that someone in the family struck her in the head, and the garrote was staging, did the person(s) doing the staging realize JB was still alive? Did they carry out the staging and not realize at the time that they in fact killed her by asphyxiating her? Thanks in advance!

I don't think the ligature strangulation was part of the staging. I think it was murder, possibly/probably by the same person who struck her on the head. The staging was the cord on her wrists and the duct tape on her mouth.

 

[kanzz]

When was she not stoned. She still seemed to have an angry undertone when she was speaking in that interview. I don't know who she was angry at but she seemed torn between crying and tearing someone's eyes out. I think we've all been at that point sometime in our lives where your heart is so completely broken and you are so MAD someone did that to you. Now imagine if it was your child murdered. Take a minute and think if it was your only remaining child who possibly did it. That would cause that conflict in emotions. John wasn't mad at the killer remember? They wanted to know only 'why'. 6 days after their daughters brutal death in their own home. And they weren't mad? They didn't want justice? They just wanted to know why? I think PR wanted to just scream in that interview. There's no telling what occurred when they were alone with BR after the murder. Maybe he just smiled that creepy smile and she realized she protected a monster. After that, she had to stick to the story.
There's a video I see occasionally, it's a snippet of a outdoor scene with Patsy walking in front of John and Burke over a little bridge. It looks to be fall. Patsy picks up a pretty leaf for Burke to look at and lays it on the railing of the wooden bridge. Burke flicks it off the railing as if flicking of a disgusting bug. I honestly think that showed a crack in the perfect grieving family exterior. There was turmoil going on between the three of them. I think in a way, Patsy never forgave Burke. I think John had to shield Burke from Patsy. From her anger at him. I probably couldn't forgive my child either if he killed my other child.
Regardless if justice is ever found for JonBenet on Earth, I can tell they've suffered with the consequences of their actions that night. The parents have at least. BR I don't think felt anything when Jon Benet died. Just like that leaf he flicked, he flicked away JonBenet. This is just my opinion of course but I dont think Patsy found peace until she passed away. They lost everything trying to protect BR and their reputation. In a way, that is some justice.

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That was one creepy video. It was as though they were wanting to portray themselves as the Healing Family.. and then came that phoney leaf moment with PR, followed by the smartass gesture by BR. I was like - wth did I just see? and I can't believe the R's allowed that to be released. I never quite understood it.

 

[Heymom]

I'm no expert in the case facts, but I've got a question for the BDI or even the RDI folks which I haven't seen addressed. (Personally, I lean towards BDI and the parents covered it up). But my question is this - if the theory is that someone in the family struck her in the head, and the garrote was staging, did the person(s) doing the staging realize JB was still alive? Did they carry out the staging and not realize at the time that they in fact killed her by asphyxiating her? Thanks in advance!

I don't believe that JonBenet was alive when her parents (or just one at first) found her. I don't believe any parent but the most evil deranged sick one could ignore a living child and not call an ambulance. It is my sincere belief, based on all of my reading and thinking about this case, and Chief Kolar's book, that JonBenet had been killed with the head bash AND the ligature before JR & PR ever got involved. The staging is the ransom letter, the wrist cords (which were never meant to restrain her), and maybe the blanket. I'm not sure if the duct tape was part of the staging or not. I'm sure that the paintbrush was NOT part of the staging.

 

[BBB167893]

yeah i noticed that too. It's very odd behaviour from a mother of a murdered child, IMO.

Hey, I've said it 100 times: you compare them to the various parent's of murdered children, and the difference is night and day.

 

[BBB167893]

This could be true. I personally have no problems with the beauty pageants. I did them with my mama and loved it. I twirled since I was 4 and was at either a pageant or twirling contest every weekend. I think JonBenet really enjoyed it. She was a born performer. She was a little star in the making. She had such beautiful stage presence. That was a natural gift. I think it probably was one thing that made Patsy excited about life again after the Cancer. She was a gorgeous child. I know from experience she wasn't being sexualized by her mama at least in the pageants that is. Those costumes were JonBenet's favorite part of the competition. That's when she really lit up. I don't think the cowboy sweetheart outfit was sexy as some people say. The showgirl outfit also was similar to things I wore in pageants. I personally loved the talent and sportswear comps too. It was fun! Now if someone else was being a creep in the audience then that was on them. The pageant thing seemed to be a family affair too with her sisters and mom helping prepare. So I try not to be hard on PR about that part of her life. JonBenet was a born performer and she just had that extra wow factor that not all people have. She was outgoing and friendly and even a tomboy as many say. I think she enjoyed it. I know she told people that the trophies and crowns were really her mom's but if you think about it..
Maybe JonBenet didn't do the pageants to win. Maybe she did them because she enjoyed it and that was enough for her. I thought her dresses were very beautiful too. I'm just putting my two cents in here about it. Just felt like I needed to say that. I've experienced what that world is like and it's truly fun! You get to meet so many other kids and talk and play in between performances. I was very outgoing like JonBenet and I can see why she loved it.

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Sorry, PL, but I can't go along with you on this one. Far as I'm concerned, those pageants are about a half-step up from child *advertiser censored*. So what if they love it? Junkies love heroin, but it's still poison.

 

[BBB167893]

I'm no expert in the case facts, but I've got a question for the BDI or even the RDI folks which I haven't seen addressed. (Personally, I lean towards BDI and the parents covered it up). But my question is this - if the theory is that someone in the family struck her in the head, and the garrote was staging, did the person(s) doing the staging realize JB was still alive? Did they carry out the staging and not realize at the time that they in fact killed her by asphyxiating her? Thanks in advance!

I think it's highly unlikely the person doing the staging knew she was still alive when they were strangling her. I think that's why they never (they claim) read the autopsy report: they didn't want to know if they were wrong.