Was Burke Involved? # 4

[Tortoise]

In all likelihood, the counselor probably cleared BR to do so. The object of his aggression was gone. What were they going to do - keep him at home? PR was in no condition to home school him.

I should say so. Sorry I omitted the sexual assault too. That's one highly dangerous kid if he did all that.

 

[OliviaG1996]

Is Charlevoix High School not a school? Sorry I don't see how these statements tie up. What age is High School?

The school system is different in the United States. There is elementary school (primary in the UK), middle school, and then high school. I'm assuming you meant to ask if BR went to elementary (or middle) school after the crime, and the answer is relatively unknown, but according to Dr. Phil, BR did not.

 

[Tortoise]

The school system is different in the United States. There is elementary school (primary in the UK), middle school, and then high school. I'm assuming you meant to ask if BR went to elementary (or middle) school after the crime, and the answer is relatively unknown, but according to Dr. Phil, BR did not.

Yes that's what I meant, after the crime. I thought I read that he did go back, after the immediate media rush died down. Ah, I remember what it was I read, one of Patsy's friends used to drive him to school, they didn't hire security guards, and parents took it in turns to sit outside in their cars with panic alarms in case they spotted any kidnappers lurking in the bushes.

What did Dr Phil say specifically about school? I missed that bit.

 

[southernmimi]

The school system is different in the United States. There is elementary school (primary in the UK), middle school, and then high school. I'm assuming you meant to ask if BR went to elementary (or middle) school after the crime, and the answer is relatively unknown, but according to Dr. Phil, BR did not.

How could Burke graduate and go on to college if he didn't return to middle school? I also wouldn't think parents could send him over to friend's homes if they thought he was capable of doing all that was done to JBR. While I'm at it, would Doug Stine still be friends with Burke if he thought he had murdered and abused JBR as some believe? I agree that, if Burke is the murderer, he is one sick and twisted individual. Maybe I really don't even want to know the truth.

 

[kanzz]

The school system is different in the United States. There is elementary school (primary in the UK), middle school, and then high school. I'm assuming you meant to ask if BR went to elementary (or middle) school after the crime, and the answer is relatively unknown, but according to Dr. Phil, BR did not.

From my bookmarks, BR attended "the exclusive Lovett School in Atlanta", where there was an incident when he was 11:

Band practice at the exclusive Lovett School in Atlanta came to a sudden halt recently when an 11-year-old trombone player threw a fit.

The youngster was Burke Ramsey.

Sadly the murder of his sister, JonBenét seems to have turned him into an angry and sometimes strange boy.

"Burke tossed his instrument to the floor with a thud and screamed that he hated the trombone and didn't want to play it anymore," said a source.

"All the kids in the band got real quiet and some of them were frightened.

"Burke kept screaming an practice was canceled while teachers quieted him down. Burke is now playing saxophone."

On another occasion, Burke was on an amusement park outing when he got freaked out by a girl who looked like JonBenét, said the source.

"He went white and turned away from her. He kept yelling he didn't want to go on a ride with HER!"

One of Burke's homeroom classmates told the source: "He talks to himself in the corner a lot. Everybody thinks he's talking to his sister."

Don Gentile

Burke Today: A troubled school kid living with his anger
http://www.city-data.com/forum/true-crime/2059774-jonben-t-ramsey-part-ii-26.html

 

[OliviaG1996]

Yes that's what I meant, after the crime. I thought I read that he did go back, after the immediate media rush died down. Ah, I remember what it was I read, one of Patsy's friends used to drive him to school, they didn't hire security guards, and parents took it in turns to sit outside in their cars with panic alarms in case they spotted any kidnappers lurking in the bushes.

What did Dr Phil say specifically about school? I missed that bit.

Originally posted by Tadpole12 (B&UBM):


http://www.insideedition.com/headlines/18625-jonbenet-ramseys-smirking-brother-draws-social-media-uproar-can-he-please-stop-smiling

JonBenet Ramsey's Smirking Brother Draws Social Media Uproar: 'Can He Please Stop Smiling?'
September 13, 2016
Behavior expert Dr. Lillian Glass gave her analysis to Inside Edition.
"I look at this as one of the most disturbing interviews I have ever seen," she declared.
When Dr. Phil asked Burke about what his mother’s reaction on the night of the murder, he described it while smirking.
“You see he has a genuine smile. For any other kid, they would have been terrified," Dr. Glass said. "He is elated about it. Maybe he had a bad relationship with the mother? Maybe he didn’t like the mother?"
People are also pointing out that Burke bizarrely moves his fingers.
"When Burke is fidgeting with his hands it shows that he is nervous. The body doesn’t lie. It shows that he is leaking out some nervous energy, which is coming out through his hands," Dr. Glass said.
Dr. Phil describes Burke as “socially awkward” and revealed that he works from home as a software engineer.
Read: JonBenet's Father Speaks Out in New Documentary: 'We Were the Victims of a Lynch Mob'
“He didn’t grow up like a normal kid. He couldn’t go to school. He has a siege mentality,” Dr. Phil said.
Dr. Glass said: "It is though he is not socialized, he doesn’t know how to react. There is something off about Burke."

Also, from BR's 1997 interview featured on CBS's special:

Dr. Bernhard: Are you going to school?
Burke Ramsey: No, because we're trying to stay away from the press.

 

[OliviaG1996]

How could Burke graduate and go on to college if he didn't return to middle school? I also wouldn't think parents could send him over to friend's homes if they thought he was capable of doing all that was done to JBR. While I'm at it, would Doug Stine still be friends with Burke if he thought he had murdered and abused JBR as some believe? I agree that, if Burke is the murderer, he is one sick and twisted individual. Maybe I really don't even want to know the truth.

You can still graduate from high school and college if you were homeschooled.

 

[Tortoise]

Also, from BR's 1997 interview featured on CBS's special:

Thanks, I think he saw Dr Bernhard within a week or so of the murder. And Kanzz' link seems to confirm he did go to school. Maybe Dr Phil meant for a short while.

 

[Miz Adventure]

From my bookmarks, BR attended "the exclusive Lovett School in Atlanta", where there was an incident when he was 11:

Burke Today: A troubled school kid living with his anger
http://www.city-data.com/forum/true-crime/2059774-jonben-t-ramsey-part-ii-26.html

WOW! Thanks kanzz.

I'd also forgotten about those books you mentioned in your earlier post, the ones given to Patsy and John by her family; books about helping a troubled child.

Which means, if my amateur sleuthing can be relied upon, (and I'm not saying that it can) that BR wasn't angry and aggressive at school because of his memories of that night. He was already angry and aggressive, which leads me believe that he probably did kill his sister.

And this may sound a bit off the wall but I have often wondered if some kind of deal was made between the R's lawyers and AH, who (I think) must have known that BR was the culprit......that BR undergoes intensive therapy and must be supervised at all times, especially around other children. Maybe that was the deal.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

From my bookmarks, BR attended "the exclusive Lovett School in Atlanta", where there was an incident when he was 11:

Burke Today: A troubled school kid living with his anger
http://www.city-data.com/forum/true-crime/2059774-jonben-t-ramsey-part-ii-26.html

I noticed the above info came from the Enquirer. I wonder if this might be the article that sparked the Ramseys lawsuit againt the Enquirer.

Also, from BR's 1997 interview featured on CBS's special:

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[HarmonyE.]

I noticed the above info came from the Enquirer. I wonder if this might be the article that sparked the Ramseys lawsuit againt the Enquirer.



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Possibly, although I remember seeing a number of "Burke Did It!" Enquirer headlines while in line at the grocery store for several years after the murder.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Even if Burke did it at the age of 10. I am sure his parents or any parent would probably try to cover things up until the very end. Jmo.

 

[vulture]

It's hard to figure out sometimes - Which came first, the chicken or the egg? The dysfunctional family, or the kid with the personality disorder?

You are so right. My parents were good parents for the most part, there was no doubt they loved us, we weren't abused, they took good care of us in most ways, but they had some baggage and it influenced all of us even though they tried very hard for that not to happen. When the troubled child is very intelligent as my brother is it's very hard for the whole family not to undergo some manipulation - and when the previous baggage makes the parents a little more susceptible to manipulation - it's very difficult for the whole family. My Mom is gone now. My Dad and brother and I are loving toward each other and have reasonable communication under the circumstances, but there are a lot of dynamics between the three of us that are still not working well. I'm seeing a counselor and going to co-dependent support group meetings to help things go in a healthier way in the future. I know co-dependence is a controversial idea and I still have a lot to learn about it but I've found what I've learned so far to be helpful. We have it a lot better than some families with a mentally ill member but it is tough sometimes.

 

[vulture]

My neck was red and sore, and I literally couldn't breathe while she was choking me. Do I think a 9 year old is capable of garroting another child? Yes, definitely.

A boy was kicked out of my second grade class for putting a wire coat hangar around my friend's neck at school and trying to choke her. No one was sorry, we all knew he was disturbed in some way. So yes I believe it's possible.

 

[HarmonyE.]

It's hard to figure out sometimes - Which came first, the chicken or the egg? The dysfunctional family, or the kid with the personality disorder?

I don't think we necessarily need to make this an either/or question.

Burke could have been born with a temperament/personality/predisposition, whatever you want to call it, that made it more likely he'd end up with mental health issues. And the family's dysfunction may have been a major contributing factor to what happened to him.

I hate picking on the mother and John had his issues as well, but Patsy may have had some mental health issues before the murder. And I think there is no question her physical illness was a huge burden on both her and the family. Her diagnosis was a death sentence when she was only in her 30's with two young kids. That had to have had a huge effect on her, as well as the child old enough to fully experience the anxiety of having a seriously ill mother who was away for long stretches of time and completely unavailable for much of the time when she was around.

So I guess if I had to look a one thing as the possibly catalyst, it would be Patsy's cancer diagnosis and her experimental treatments that really weren't expected to work.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Possibly, although I remember seeing a number of "Burke Did It!" Enquirer headlines while in line at the grocery store for several years after the murder.

Ahh, the "Burke Did It" story sounds like the one!

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[Ambitioned]

Burke could have been born with a temperament/personality/predisposition, whatever you want to call it, that made it more likely he'd end up with mental health issues. And the family's dysfunction may have been a major contributing factor to what happened to him.

I always wonder this about other child killers such as Thompson and Venables. What would make them torture Bulger and shove batteries up his rectum before killing him? Were they born evil, predisposed to violence, have family dysfunction? Lack of care, love, or firm parental control?

One thing that keeps me is from being PDI is my stepdad had more issues than PR and would fly into rages, yet we are all still alive. He came close to breaking a chair on my back but didn't. I guess its easier for me to accept BR did it with his issues that we know of today. As you said, PR had to deal with cancer and treatments and with her being so focused on JB and the pageants, it's not hard to understand how BR could have a ton of resentment building up every day. I have a feeling this is what the friends wanted to intervene and talk to PR about.

I don't buy that, "But he didn't kill again" logic. There are many killers who are fine when the one person they hate is dead. They just don't kill again.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I always wonder this about other child killers such as Thompson and Venables. What would make them torture Bulger and shove batteries up his rectum before killing him? Were they born evil, predisposed to violence, have family dysfunction? Lack of care, love, or firm parental control?

One thing that keeps me is from being PDI is my stepdad had more issues than PR and would fly into rages, yet we are all still alive. He came close to breaking a chair on my back but didn't. I guess its easier for me to accept BR did it with his issues that we know of today. As you said, PR had to deal with cancer and treatments and with her being so focused on JB and the pageants, it's not hard to understand how BR could have a ton of resentment building up every day. I have a feeling this is what the friends wanted to intervene and talk to PR about.

I don't buy that, "But he didn't kill again" logic. There are many killers who are fine when the one person they hate is dead. They just don't kill again.

Kids who kill around Burke's age usually don't again, even if they didn't personally hate the victim. I also can't imagine the Ramseys not getting him some intensive therapy.

As for Patsy, she may have had some mental health issues, but I swear half the people I know do and none have murdered anyone. I can see her killing accidentally in a sudden moment of rage, but everything else had to have been calculated. Rage plus calculation don't compute here for me with regard to Patsy. I can't see Patsy killing JBR intentionally. And I can't see Patsy killing in a rage and then rationally staging everything else to throw LE off, including writing the ransom letter. This is why I think Burke did much if not all of the crime, with Patsy - with John's full assistance if not direction - working on a kidnapping-gone-wrong cover for him.

 

[Miz Adventure]

I always wonder this about other child killers such as Thompson and Venables. What would make them torture Bulger and shove batteries up his rectum before killing him? Were they born evil, predisposed to violence, have family dysfunction? Lack of care, love, or firm parental control?

OMG I had not heard about the batteries. That is truly horrendous. No wonder the little boy's parents HATED the two kids that did what they did to their boy and campaigned for them never to be released.

The trouble is that do-gooding prison counsellors always seem to think they can 'rehabilitate' evil doers. They let them loose back into society as a kind of experiment.

It often has fatal results.

 

[HarmonyE.]

OMG I had not heard about the batteries. That is truly horrendous. No wonder the little boy's parents HATED the two kids that did what they did to their boy and campaigned for them never to be released.

The trouble is that do-gooding prison counsellors always seem to think they can 'rehabilitate' evil doers. They let them loose back into society as a kind of experiment.

It often has fatal results.

Both Venables and Thompson were 10 years old when they committed the horrific murder. They'd both had emotional problems and behavioral issues at school and had been involved with fights and petty thievery, but I don't think we can lock up every kid with behavioral issues for life on the chance that he might murder a smaller child.

They were both released after 8 years. My understanding is that Thompson had not re-offended in the 15 years since his release while Venables was sent back to prison twice for having child *advertiser censored* on his computer.