Was Burke Involved? # 4

[johnjay]

Same here- and I was in middle school in the late 70's


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It's older than that:

 

[LisaB]

Here's my theory. It will seem crazy at first, but hear me out:

We know Burke had hit Jonbenet in the head with a weapon on a prior occasion and she did not die.

We have been told Burke had a scatological obsession and smeared feces in various places, including the bathroom, and JonBenets bed.

I suspect the fecal material was the source of JonBenet's recurrent UTIs.

I think that the family came home from their Christmas visits and that after JonBenet was upstairs, Patsy made Burke a snack. She likely left him in the kitchen eating it, and at some point, JonBenet came in and grabbed a few pieces of pineapple.

Because she had enought time to chew and swallow, I think Burke CHASED her with the flashlight, before he caught her, and struck her, either on the first floor or in the basement.

He may have been relieved she was not crying, screaming, or telling on him, and went upstairs to his room (without finishing his snack or throwing it away) to wait until morning to see what happened. He may have thought/hoped she would not remember, or that their parents would not believe he had hit her. I don't think it OCCURRED to him she could be dead.

I believe he is (as claimed) a sound sleeper. I think he slept through his parents discovering her body, staging the crime scene, and writing the note, but awoke when Patsy made the dramatic 911 call.

As unlikely as it sounds, I think he may have ACTUALLY BELIEVED that AFTER he hit her, someone broke in, molested her, garroted her, and left her in the crawl space, leaving a note for John & Patsy.

This seems pretty farfetched to us (adults), but he was 9.

He probably never imagined he could have killed her, and it is pretty unlikely that his parents ever sat him down and discussed it with him. THEY knew what had happened to her, and there was no point in losing their son too.

They probably never even told him they found her unconscious (thought she was dead?) and staged the rest, much less accused him of having hit her... what would they say? "You killed your sister young man, you are grounded for 2 weeks"? They (obviously?) figured HE knew what he had done, so it was probably never discussed further.

Applying the "magical thinking" of a 9-year-old, I think Burke believed (unlikely as it would seem) that AFTER he hit his sister, some intruder "conveniently" picked that night to come and kill her.

When I was 9, my mom concocted a CRAZY story that it took me 42 years to figure out was a lie. It was VERY unbelievable, and I have always hesitated to tell anyone about it, because it DOES sound far-fetched. But at the age of 9, you believe every word out of your parents' mouths. To this day, my mom has never backed down on her "big lie" and has continued to insist it is true.

Why did I believe it for so long? Because even after I learned the SOURCE was not credible, I still believed the things I'd been told PRIOR to realizing that, and it was a LONG time before I really started to put the pieces together and was able to realize that my mother had made up a huge lie for attention, whether or not she realized it would traumatize her children.

If you were 9-year-old Burke, and if they never told you that YOU were the killer, you would naturally believe the story they were peddling to the press. He KNOWS he hit her, but he believes that someone else killed her as he knows he did not put her in the crawl space, garotte her, or write the ransom note.

This explains him asking "What did you find?" because HE expected them to find her where he left her (or in her bed) with a lump on her head, NOT dead, bound, and stuffed in the crawl space. Due to Patsy's hysteria, would not have even CONSIDERED that she or his dad had anything to do with it.

It is possible that, to this day, as far as Burke is concerned, he did hit her, but someone else did all the rest.

 

[madeleine]

in the police interview when he was 11 you can tell that he is cautious and definitely was coached for it

but boy do I wanna see the entire interview when he was 9

I know what happened hehe

that was creepy

 

[Heymom]

Here's my theory. It will seem crazy at first, but hear me out:

We know Burke had hit Jonbenet in the head with a weapon on a prior occasion and she did not die.

We have been told Burke had a scatological obsession and smeared feces in various places, including the bathroom, and JonBenets bed.

I suspect the fecal material was the source of JonBenet's recurrent UTIs.

I think that the family came home from their Christmas visits and that after JonBenet was upstairs, Patsy made Burke a snack. She likely left him in the kitchen eating it, and at some point, JonBenet came in and grabbed a few pieces of pineapple.

Because she had enought time to chew and swallow, I think Burke CHASED her with the flashlight, before he caught her, and struck her, either on the first floor or in the basement.

He may have been relieved she was not crying, screaming, or telling on him, and went upstairs to his room (without finishing his snack or throwing it away) to wait until morning to see what happened. He may have thought/hoped she would not remember, or that their parents would not believe he had hit her. I don't think it OCCURRED to him she could be dead.

I believe he is (as claimed) a sound sleeper. I think he slept through his parents discovering her body, staging the crime scene, and writing the note, but awoke when Patsy made the dramatic 911 call.

As unlikely as it sounds, I think he may have ACTUALLY BELIEVED that AFTER he hit her, someone broke in, molested her, garroted her, and left her in the crawl space, leaving a note for John & Patsy.

This seems pretty farfetched to us (adults), but he was 9.

He probably never imagined he could have killed her, and it is pretty unlikely that his parents ever sat him down and discussed it with him. THEY knew what had happened to her, and there was no point in losing their son too.

They probably never even told him they found her unconscious (thought she was dead?) and staged the rest, much less accused him of having hit her... what would they say? "You killed your sister young man, you are grounded for 2 weeks"? They (obviously?) figured HE knew what he had done, so it was probably never discussed further.

Applying the "magical thinking" of a 9-year-old, I think Burke believed (unlikely as it would seem) that AFTER he hit his sister, some intruder "conveniently" picked that night to come and kill her.

When I was 9, my mom concocted a CRAZY story that it took me 42 years to figure out was a lie. It was VERY unbelievable, and I have always hesitated to tell anyone about it, because it DOES sound far-fetched. But at the age of 9, you believe every word out of your parents' mouths. To this day, my mom has never backed down on her "big lie" and has continued to insist it is true.

Why did I believe it for so long? Because even after I learned the SOURCE was not credible, I still believed the things I'd been told PRIOR to realizing that, and it was a LONG time before I really started to put the pieces together and was able to realize that my mother had made up a huge lie for attention, whether or not she realized it would traumatize her children.

If you were 9-year-old Burke, and if they never told you that YOU were the killer, you would naturally believe the story they were peddling to the press. He KNOWS he hit her, but he believes that someone else killed her as he knows he did not put her in the crawl space, garotte her, or write the ransom note.

This explains him asking "What did you find?" because HE expected them to find her where he left her (or in her bed) with a lump on her head, NOT dead, bound, and stuffed in the crawl space. Due to Patsy's hysteria, would not have even CONSIDERED that she or his dad had anything to do with it.

It is possible that, to this day, as far as Burke is concerned, he did hit her, but someone else did all the rest.

Two problems with your theory:

1) Coming across your daughter unconscious, with no obvious signs of the head injury (no one knew until the autopsy), how would you know what had happened - any parent would call for an ambulance. Even if Burke had accidentally hit JonBenet and then told his parents what he'd done, I do believe they'd have done the right thing and called for help. But if you found your daughter already dead, having been choked to death, and possibly half-naked and with a paintbrush sticking out of her vagina, you'd know what happened and who did it, and why you need to cover this up and pretend that some "group of individuals" had broken in and done this to your child.

2) the GJ voted it was Murder 1 - with premeditation and intent to kill. Now we can argue until the cows come home about how long the intention was, and we can't know unless there is a confession, but the GJ saw the evidence and took witness testimony, and they were going for Murder 1. That is why I think JBR was already dead, obviously dead from choking, when Patsy eventually found her.

 

[Heymom]

in the police interview when he was 11 you can tell that he is cautious and definitely was coached for it

but boy do I wanna see the entire interview when he was 9

I know what happened hehe

that was creepy

Yep, he was pretty gleeful about that statement. I sure wish we could have the whole interview to review.

I thought it was weird how he started the family drawing too. "Ohhh ohhh I've got one!" Like, you just now remembered who is actually a member of your family??? He never actually listed his family members out loud, as most of us would have done. "Well, there's dad, and mom, and me..." even if he didn't see JonBenet as a family member wouldn't he have explained who is in his family to the therapist? Just weird. For him to never even mention his sister, I believe, means she had been dead to him a long time before she was actually dead. He didn't need to think about her any more. Gone, finally. Which also fits with the patting of the coffin at her funeral. "See ya! Wouldn't want to be ya!" kind of thing

 

[UKGuy]

Two problems with your theory:

1) Coming across your daughter unconscious, with no obvious signs of the head injury (no one knew until the autopsy), how would you know what had happened - any parent would call for an ambulance. Even if Burke had accidentally hit JonBenet and then told his parents what he'd done, I do believe they'd have done the right thing and called for help. But if you found your daughter already dead, having been choked to death, and possibly half-naked and with a paintbrush sticking out of her vagina, you'd know what happened and who did it, and why you need to cover this up and pretend that some "group of individuals" had broken in and done this to your child.

2) the GJ voted it was Murder 1 - with premeditation and intent to kill. Now we can argue until the cows come home about how long the intention was, and we can't know unless there is a confession, but the GJ saw the evidence and took witness testimony, and they were going for Murder 1. That is why I think JBR was already dead, obviously dead from choking, when Patsy eventually found her.

Heymom,
2) coincides with Kolar saying One person did it all. Seems the only thing eluding us is the motive.


.

 

[wannagonorth]

But in the context he used it, with the smile and/or slight laugh as he described his mother trying to find his sister (who was later found murdered, according to the narrative), it is highly inappropriate. There was a very good reason for Patsy to be "going psycho" and most people would understand that is not a word choice that is appropriate in that context. Empathy would mean you would say, "My mom was scared and her voice was scary to me too..." or some such.

I too was struck by Burke's characterization of Patsy's reaction as "going psycho." It's callous, dismissive. It sounds like he views her reaction as excessive, overly extreme. Like to him it was no big deal.

 

[ConcernedinDC]

You know I have often wondered if some of the bruises on her body could have been from something that happened Christmas morning.

Perhaps during opening presents, Burke got angry at JBR and physically harmered her. ( aka lost footage) To punish him, they took away some of his Xmas gifts that he hadn't yet opened and locked them in the wine cellar.

This makes sense! And later Burke goes sneaking down to get them back. Jonbenet comes down grabs a piece of pineapple and goes down to the basement to see what he is doing. Threatens to tell...

 

[johnjay]

Yep, he was pretty gleeful about that statement. I sure wish we could have the whole interview to review.

I thought it was weird how he started the family drawing too. "Ohhh ohhh I've got one!" Like, you just now remembered who is actually a member of your family??? He never actually listed his family members out loud, as most of us would have done. "Well, there's dad, and mom, and me..." even if he didn't see JonBenet as a family member wouldn't he have explained who is in his family to the therapist? Just weird. For him to never even mention his sister, I believe, means she had been dead to him a long time before she was actually dead. He didn't need to think about her any more. Gone, finally. Which also fits with the patting of the coffin at her funeral. "See ya! Wouldn't want to be ya!" kind of thing

Was Jacques2 in his family drawing?

 

[FrankieB]

The christmas pictures we have seen are the ones that have been allowed to be released, but that doesn't mean there aren't more. Judging by the transcripts several were taken and then finished off with pictures of objects in the house.

 

[Heymom]

Was Jacques2 in his family drawing?

Not AFAIK, by then the dog was permanently with the Barnhills.

 

[johnjay]

Not AFAIK, by then the dog was permanently with the Barnhills.

Wasn't this just a couple of weeks after JonBenet was killed?

 

[akh]

I can't imagine a scenario where IF there was an accident, or the possibility it could be played up as an accident, that PR/JR wouldn't just go that direction. They'd call for help and if there was to be a coverup, it'd be to say what happened was an accident, even if they know or suspect it wasn't. IMO. Therefore, I think BR did the head hit, the strangulation, any SA, etc... and he took away the family's option to try and say it was an accident. When your son strangles his sister with a tool he's fabricated, let alone sexually abused her, then trying to play it off as an accident is no longer an option.

I think it's fully possible he strangled her first, she struggled and he hit her with the flashlight to subdue her, did whatever he did as far as sexual abuse goes, delayed by curiosity or morbid curiosity, poked her with the train track, etc.., and then strangled her again to be certain after some delay.

As for the RN, I could entertain the thought he did it but I'm skeptical. I'd need to see examples of his writing. Not only handwriting but journal entries, any essays or letters he'd written, etc.. The wording of the letter does have some aspects that makes me think it could've been done by a younger person. The use of movie quotes for example. And the general silliness of it. But I'd think more 14 year old, not 9 year old.

But I'd also be fine leaving the author of the RN undetermined except that it's clearly not real and was done to coverup the crime.

So the parents' role in the coverup could've just been cleaning her up and the story they told. Or it could've been that and the ransom note as well. But I wouldn't let the ransom note be the hangup at pointing a finger at BR for the murder.

When you start focusing on BR as the perpetrator, other parts of the story become less important as to who or even why. They can fit either way. But when you look other directions, all these random things with the case get weird. You can answer why but not who. Or who but not why. Or when doesn't matter as much. Everything still fits.

When did BR leave for the White's? I do wonder if JR could've gotten an admission out of BR during JR's missing period of time and if that is why he was able to find the body when he did, and why he was allegedly agitated when seen again. But again, it doesn't matter when JR got sucked into the coverup, from the start or later, because in the end clearly he was involved in it. Plausible deniability becomes more implausible.

 

[ThinkHard]

Heymom,
2) coincides with Kolar saying One person did it all. Seems the only thing eluding us is the motive.


.

I think Burke did it all. And I think his motive was a warped sense of reality and the desire have JBR out of the picture.

 

[DakotaMayi]

I think Burke did it all. And I think his motive was a warped sense of reality and the desire have JBR out of the picture.

I second that. I have finally got around to watching the jonbenet docu on ID. I'm never very confident in my theories but I've never been so sure BDI.

 

[OliviaG1996]

One of the only aspects of the case that I've had trouble figuring out is who strangled JBR with the cord. I've never really had a solid theory on it, other than it had to have been one of the three Rs. If BR did this part, did he wear gloves? To my knowledge, his DNA is not on the cord, yet PR's sweater fibers are. Any thoughts?

 

[DakotaMayi]

One of the only aspects of the case that I've had trouble figuring out is who strangled JBR with the cord. I've never really had a solid theory on it, other than it had to have been one of the three Rs. If BR did this part, did he wear gloves? To my knowledge, his DNA is not on the cord, yet PR's sweater fibers are. Any thoughts?

I wonder if JR or PR did this as to swerve people from the idea that BR attacked JBR. Maybe thinking people would think a 9 year old would not be strong/able enough to do this.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

When I was probably 8 years old, a girl at my elementary school had mental issues that were sometimes apparent. One day while sitting on the bleachers (she was 9, a grade a head of me) she was sitting behind me and out of no where she put her hands around my neck and started squeezing. A classmate saw it and alerted the teacher. My neck was red and sore, and I literally couldn't breathe while she was choking me. Do I think a 9 year old is capable of garroting another child? Yes, definitely.

(By the way, the girl in my class was suspended and eventually moved away)

 

[Annapurna]

When did BR leave for the White's? I do wonder if JR could've gotten an admission out of BR during JR's missing period of time and if that is why he was able to find the body when he did, and why he was allegedly agitated when seen again. But again, it doesn't matter when JR got sucked into the coverup, from the start or later, because in the end clearly he was involved in it. Plausible deniability becomes more implausible.

BR left at about 7:30 am. The "missing hour" was from about 10:40-12:00 pm.

BR was a remarkably articulate kid (as seen in his interview from 1997), but IDK if he would be capable of writing a letter like that. Like the term "attaché" complete with the accent doesn't seem like a 10-year old's vocabulary, even a smart one.

It is quite possible that BR was responsible for the violence and his parents just cleaned up after him, leaving the note to "explain".

 

[ThinkHard]

One of the only aspects of the case that I've had trouble figuring out is who strangled JBR with the cord. I've never really had a solid theory on it, other than it had to have been one of the three Rs. If BR did this part, did he wear gloves? To my knowledge, his DNA is not on the cord, yet PR's sweater fibers are. Any thoughts?

It would hurt your hands to pull a cord that narrow that aggressively. If he was wearing long sleeves, they may have been pulled down over his hands, giving him both a better grip and accounting for the fiber transfer. The 90's was the time of oversized shirts after all. .... Just a shot in the dark.