Was Burke involved?

[Carmelita]

Apart from the fact that someone in the house DID assault and brutally murder her....

And what do we KNOW of P and J's psychology, anyway?

I was married to a man for 10 years who turned out to have a personality disorder while masquerading as a "nice guy" to this day.

Secrets are just that - secret. IE...NO ONE ELSE KNOWS what went on in that house behind closed doors.

[modsnip]

Nope I'm not clairvoyant.

I am a realist addicted to facts and the fact is behavior does not happen in a vacuum. Neither Patsy nor John had the psychological makeup to commit the atrocities that were committed on JonBenet. Popular opinion and myths set aside.

Many people skate though relationships and fool people but when their true colors come out, there is more evidence of their psychosis under the surface, Scott Peterson, the "perfect" son in law, husband and dad to be comes immediately to mind.

Remember the old idiom "The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior" there is simply nothing in the Ramsey's behavior that lends any credence to them (either or) being capable of the crimes committed upon their daughter.

 

[Carmelita]

yep and their attorney was livid the tape was leaked.

It is claimed that the Ramsey's did and said many things. I have not read in any credible source that the Ramsey's said Burke was awake during the 911 call. I do not believe that they have made this concession. I think it is more web lore.

 

[Carmelita]

Waves to Scarlet

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

there is simply nothing in the Ramsey's behavior that lends any credence to them (either or) being capable of the crimes committed upon their daughter.

There is recorded evidence of Patsy using JonBent to express her creativity.

 

[MyBelle]

Nope I'm not clairvoyant.

I am a realist addicted to facts and the fact is behavior does not happen in a vacuum. Neither Patsy nor John had the psychological makeup to commit the atrocities that were committed on JonBenet. Popular opinion and myths set aside.

Many people skate though relationships and fool people but when their true colors come out, there is more evidence of their psychosis under the surface, Scott Peterson, the "perfect" son in law, husband and dad to be comes immediately to mind.

Remember the old idiom "The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior" there is simply nothing in the Ramsey's behavior that lends any credence to them (either or) being capable of the crimes committed upon their daughter.

Nothing in their behavior? A bogus ransom note and a child's body showing evidence of chronic sexual abuse is a lot more than nothing, imo.

A Grand Jury disagrees with you as do I.

 

[Tawny]

There is recorded evidence of Patsy using JonBent to express her creativity.

Nearly every parent on the planet does that.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Nearly every parent on the planet does that.

Nearly every parent on the planet does not do that to the extent Patsy did.

 

[Mama2JML]

More from NBC News:

"During an interrogation about the call, Patsy Ramsey questioned one of the Boulder police detectives about his assertion there was a conversation after she had hung up the phone."

Police: “Was there any conversation immediately following your last word to the dispatcher?”
Patsy: “I don’t remember. I was out of my mind. My child was missing. I was trying to convey that to the person on the other end of the line. OK? I don’t remember. If you have it on tape, and you’d like me to hear it, I’ll listen to it and see if that jogs my memory.”
Police: “It’s on tape.”
Patsy: “OK.”
Police: “OK.
Patsy: “All right. Well if you’ve got it on the tape and we can play it, then I will try to help you. But I can’t remember which end was up about that time.”
At which point the detective changes the subject.
Police: “What was JonBenet’s birth date?”
Patsy: “August the 6th, 1990.”​

​

Source: http://www.today.com/id/3079093

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Nope I'm not clairvoyant.

Neither Patsy nor John had the psychological makeup to commit the atrocities that were committed on JonBenet.

What is your level of education in psychology?

 

[Tawny]

Nearly every parent on the planet does not do that to the extent Patsy did.

I'll give you that, but there are thousands and thousands who do and DON'T have psychoses and murder their children, so her pageantry is evidence of nothing.

 

[RANCH]

There were leaks, there were embellishments, & there were lies. So, what's on the 911 call? If the FBI and the Secret Service hold any merit in this realm, then the Daily Camera's "anonymous source" was probably just pulling your leg in an effort to propagate the BPD's infamous public pressure strategy, affirmed by Steve Thomas.

From NBC News:

In his book, 'JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation,' Thomas claimed that by enhancing the tape you can hear John and Patsy talking to their son Burke. He claims that’s important because the Ramseys reportedly told police their son was asleep at the time of the call. If true, Thomas claims it suggests the family was altering their story right from the start.

But both the FBI and Secret Service — who examined the tapes — said such a conversation could not be heard.

NBC News had the tape tested by experts at two different labs that examine 911 tapes to see if there was any conversation after the hang up.

'I would say my findings are much more in parallel with the FBI’s findings. There’s not enough there to give any sort of conclusive, intelligible argument,' says Frank Piazza of Legal Audio in New York City.

David Mariasy from Team Audio in Toledo, Ohio, agrees. 'When it was suggested that we look for these other lines of dialogue and there’s two or three other people after the hang up, that didn’t happen,' he says.​

​

Source: http://www.today.com/id/3079093

Kolar (1398-1421)

So we have the FBI, the Secret Service and two separate private labs say that there was no conversation with Burke on the 911 tape.

Only Kolar says that Aerospace Corporation found the alleged dialog. Aerospace didn't confirm this. Interesting.

Thanks for the info Mama and Betty.

 

[Carmelita]

There is recorded evidence of Patsy using JonBent to express her creativity.

Most parents do to one degree or another. It is not behavior which lends itself to being capable of committing the atrocities that were done to JonBenet.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

her pageantry is evidence of nothing.

It is evidence of quite a lot. To dismiss that is evidence of whitewashing.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Most parents do to one degree or another. It is not behavior which lends itself to being capable of committing the atrocities that were done to JonBenet.

Yes it is.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Not too much I can say to that because I do not believe that your response is rooted in reality and known and accepted psychological norms. So I'll just accept that it is your belief and okee dokee.

What is your level of education in psychology?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Not too much I can say to that because I do not believe that your response is rooted in reality and known and accepted psychological norms. So I'll just accept that it is your belief and okee dokee.

Well "accepted investigatory norms" indicate that JB was raped and murdered by an adult who resided in her home.

The FBI told Boulder PD almost immediately that this was the profile of the perp.

Not a child, not a stranger or a neighbour but an ADULT RESIDENT of the house.

Accepted norms work both ways...

 

[DeeDee249]

Please provide a citation to Burke being named a suspect or POI.

Thanks.

You know exactly why that can't be done. Because of his age he could never have been named a suspect or POI. Even if they KNEW for SURE he did it. The best the GJ could so was indict the his parents for allowing it to happen.
But when the present DA took over for ML, he did say NO ONE was cleared as far as he was concerned.

 

[DeeDee249]

Well "accepted investigatory norms" indicate that JB was raped and murdered by an adult who resided in her home.

The FBI told Boulder PD almost immediately that this was the profile of the perp.

Not a child, not a stranger or a neighbour but an ADULT RESIDENT of the house.

Accepted norms work both ways...

As far as I know, she was not raped. The coroner saw what he considered to be digital penetration. He hymen was not broken, but it was eroded. However, I believe in criminal cases the term "rape" can mean any type of vaginal intrusion with anything, not necessarily penile. I have not seen the word "rape" used in this case by anyone involved with the case.
When the FBI made the comment "Look to the parents" it did not necessarily mean they ruled out other family present in the home. But I believe they felt the parents KNEW what happened. I don't think the FBI spoke to BR or even saw him or knew anything about there being another child at the time. I think he was removed from the home before the FBI got there. Had that not been the case and they saw a parent attempting to remove a potential witness, I think they might have tried to stop that from happening or at least would want to talk to BR to see what he may have heard or seen.

 

[MyBelle]

You know exactly why that can't be done. Because of his age he could never have been named a suspect or POI. Even if they KNEW for SURE he did it. The best the GJ could so was indict the his parents for allowing it to happen.
But when the present DA took over for ML, he did say NO ONE was cleared as far as he was concerned.

BBM. I don't believe you are quite correct. Because of his age, Burke could not be prosecuted but he certainly could be named as a suspect yet LE have refused to include him as being under the same "cloud of suspicion" as his parents. Once the Ramseys were made aware of the fact that Burke could not be charged because of his age, there was no reason to continue with their deception and charade yet they did. It isn't a giant leap to conclude they were covering for each other, not because Burke did anything.

The GJ did NOT indict the Ramseys because of the actions of Burke, they were indicted because of their own behavior.

 

[Tawny]

Well "accepted investigatory norms" indicate that JB was raped and murdered by an adult who resided in her home.

The FBI told Boulder PD almost immediately that this was the profile of the perp.

Not a child, not a stranger or a neighbour but an ADULT RESIDENT of the house.

Accepted norms work both ways...

BBM

Where is the source that states it was definitely an adult? I may have missed that.