Was Burke involved?

[bettybaby00]

Both of the Rs were ready to be arrested when the GJ was finished. Granted they may have assumed they would never see the inside of a court room. But could they be 100% sure they would never have to face the death penalty if they had been arrested and found guilty in JB'S death?

Wouldn't it just seem more reasonable to believe the R's would very quickly speak to authorities and make what ever behind the scenes plea bargains they would have to by disclosing BR's involvement, if they could, to assure them of no chance for punishment?

Ok now I think I get you

Is plausible, but I can't give it too much plausibility b/c look at who we are dealing with. This is a couple who have spent nearly 2 decades lying, misleading, and obfuscating the investigation of the brutal death of their daughter. And for a multitude of reasons the DAs office enabled all of this to happen via both "inaction," as well as playing word games which further duped the public.

Its funny actually that the Rs asserted they "expected to be arrested at any moment." Why? If truly innocent, and with the legal protection they had, what did they actually have to fear? IF they were actually wrongly being persecuted, its still highly improbable that innocent, wealthy, and well connected citizens would be wrongly arrested. For me that "fear" was part of the marketing plan.

Everything that has transpired since JR brought JRB up from that basement has been a thoroughly orchestrated campaign which sought to thwart investigators. If innocent, they would have allowed investigators to "clear" them, thus allowing LE to fully focus their attention on someone outside the family. All of this could have transpired with their lawyers sitting right beside them. Instead they used their considerable resources to ensure that a case couldn't be built against them, or their son.


And cue the lawyer arguments.

 

[gramcracker]

what is the source re JB's alleged aversion to the basement?

 

[gramcracker]

I think PR was the one who expected to be arrested at any minute, for two reasons. 1- she carried the greater burden of initiating the path that the events took and 2 - her guilt caused emotional misunderstanding which outweighed her intellectual understanding of her/their predicament. I also think the various refusals to step foot on LE property were reflections of emotional PR rather than pragmatic JR

 

[Mama2JML]

what is the source re JB's alleged aversion to the basement?

The housekeeper & the Ramseys.

 

[gramcracker]

what is the source re JB's alleged aversion to the basement?

The housekeeper & the Ramseys.

we know the Rs have an agenda. usually the HK is labeled here as having an agenda and her comments are discounted so, hmmm ...

 

[Venom]

Why is it so hard for some to understand that sometimes good people do bad things.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

next question?

What is the evidence Burke was involved?

 

[gramcracker]

re JB avoiding the basement at all costs, I may be wrong but IIRC the HK quoted had left the household about 2 years prior to the event. kids do a lot of growing/changing re fears/apprehensions in that amount of time, especially when moving from one age cluster to another

if those involved in covering up a crime claim something that serves to divert a circumstance from consideration then it should be considered

I'll tell you what's vulgar: covering up the murder of a child! that's vulgar!

this would be an entirely scary world if the only way to prooooovvvve a crime occurred is having access to a videotape with sound. most crimes are not recorded for posterity and that's where investigating, using deductive reasoning, examining motive/opportunity and gathering circumstantial evidence are weighed against the desire to avoid an outcome which would lead to shame and punishment

[modsnip]

:dance:

ETA: The Rule of Law - if the facts are against you: argue the law; if the law is against you: argue the facts; if the facts and the law are against you: yell like hell, pound the table, and call the other side names.

 

[Salem]

Please remember that when you engage in the argument, you will also find yourself on the outside looking in. This is the last pass. Don't engage. Alert and move on.

Salem

 

[midwest mama]

I think PR was the one who expected to be arrested at any minute, for two reasons. 1- she carried the greater burden of initiating the path that the events took and 2 - her guilt caused emotional misunderstanding which outweighed her intellectual understanding of her/their predicament. I also think the various refusals to step foot on LE property were reflections of emotional PR rather than pragmatic JR

JR stated that he hired lawyers to provide a defense for him. He expected to be arrested very early on. PR could not avoid expecting to be arrested because of the amount of handwriting exemplars that were requested and the edict that she was the one between the two of them that had a slight chance of not being eliminated as the writer of the RN.

PR made very strong public appearances and police statements claiming her innocence. I have to disagree that she ever felt she was guilty. If anything, I think she would have consciously transferred blame to JB herself for causing her to do something damaging to JB. Typical narcissism. But I believe Patsy actualy harbored no guilt. I think if she would have, she might have "confessed" on her death bed to remove any further speculation from Burke's culpability. Maybe?

Also, PR went over the lawyer's heads and contacted LE to tell them she would meet with them to discuss the case, only to have that found out and squelched by the RST. I know guilty people can subconsciously bury guilt and do all sorts of things to get themselves caught, but Patsy is my #3 suspect of the 3 R's for bearing the final burden.

:twocents::moo:

 

[SapphireSteel]

IF Burke had hurt his sister, normal procedure would be to put the kid in a psychiatric facility until the courts were satisfied.

IF Burke had hurt his sister, he would NEED psychiatric treatment.

What loving parent would deny this treatment in preference to murdering their own dying baby?

How did they know she was dying? She was still alive when they found her, albeit in a bad way.

Instead of calling 911 they garrotted her. This "much loved" child. Then raped her with a paintbrush just to make it look good.

In what universe does this make sense?

Take a family calamity, eg one child assaulted the other, and compound it by murdering the victim and protecting the one who killed her to the point he received NO TREATMENT WHATSOEVER?

[modsnip]

 

[MyBelle]

JR stated that he hired lawyers to provide a defense for him. He expected to be arrested very early on. PR could not avoid expecting to be arrested because of the amount of handwriting exemplars that were requested and the edict that she was the one between the two of them that had a slight chance of not being eliminated as the writer of the RN.

PR made very strong public appearances and police statements claiming her innocence. I have to disagree that she ever felt she was guilty. If anything, I think she would have consciously transferred blame to JB herself for causing her to do something damaging to JB. Typical narcissism. But I believe Patsy actualy harbored no guilt. I think if she would have, she might have "confessed" on her death bed to remove any further speculation from Burke's culpability. Maybe?

Also, PR went over the lawyer's heads and contacted LE to tell them she would meet with them to discuss the case, only to have that found out and squelched by the RST. I know guilty people can subconsciously bury guilt and do all sorts of things to get themselves caught, but Patsy is my #3 suspect of the 3 R's for bearing the final burden.

:twocents::moo:

Interesting. PR is my #1. iirc, the Ramseys hired a top PR firm early on so everything they said or did was orchestrated to project an image of devout Christians who could not possibly harm their own child and it worked beautifully.

I think Patsy's narcissism was extreme to the point of personality disorder and Patsy had no intention of ever letting the truth shine through. The household was ruled by Patsy and she's still ruling it, imo.

 

[MyBelle]

IF Burke had hurt his sister, normal procedure would be to put the kid in a psychiatric facility until the courts were satisfied.

IF Burke had hurt his sister, he would NEED psychiatric treatment.

What loving parent would deny this treatment in preference to murdering their own dying baby?

How did they know she was dying? She was still alive when they found her, albeit in a bad way.

Instead of calling 911 they garrotted her. This "much loved" child. Then raped her with a paintbrush just to make it look good.

In what universe does this make sense?

Take a family calamity, eg one child assaulted the other, and compound it by murdering the victim and protecting the one who killed her to the point he received NO TREATMENT WHATSOEVER?

[modsnip].

I think I have a good understanding of what they did as parents and what bothers me most is that they were not prosecuted. That household was a dysfunctional mess ruled by a Queen. Neither of those children had a chance at being "normal."

 

[Chelly]

Here is a link to a documentary that addresses sexual abuse by children that sometimes progresses to murder. It is worth watching.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g2-Re_Fl_L4#

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yes, there is no doubt that Burke was not included in the "staging".

[modsnip]

Burke is a victim too. He's still alive and of an age to read this carp.

 

[Carmelita]

I think it would only hold water if there were not other glaring factors such as the ransom note and Burke being heard asking what was going on in the background of the 911 call.

That is a fact not in evidence it is what some people believe, [modsnip]

 

[SapphireSteel]

hi Frigga,

First my deep apologies I did not mean to come across as callous. I am by nature very analytical to the point of hurting feelings sometimes because I speak very matter of fact. And I don't for a minute doubt that you have good reason intellectual and intuitive reasons for your beliefs. You are very well spoken.


From my readings of all things Ramsey I do not see the psychological make-up that would be required for any of them to have been involved in the brutal murder and deviant sexual assault of their beloved child. Believe me as passionately as you believe that the evidence is on the side of the Ramsey’s guilt I believe it is on the side of their innocence.

So which is it?

You haven't read much but you know they're innocent?

Surely one depends on the other?

 

[Carmelita]

So which is it?

You haven't read much but you know they're innocent?

Surely one depends on the other?

I've read enough and I understand on a non emotional level about human psychology to know that there is nothing in the Ramsey's history that would indicate that any of them were capable of sexually assaulting and brutally murdering their much beloved 6 year old daughter. Same goes for Burke.

Thanks for asking.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Kid on kid crime? In a household that includes parents? I'm sorta shocked you think CPS would not get involved or worse, ignore it. It would have to be reported to police and handled as a crime with the perp removed from the household. afaik, that basic procedure hasn't changed in 40 years.

Agreed. The thing is there is no, none, nada proof of a use from that household by anyone let alone the 9 yr old boy.

Burke is a victim. He was never a suspect of anything.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[MyBelle]

That is a fact not in evidence it is what some people believe, [modsnip].

Widely reported in the media. I have no reason to not believe it.

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1998/21ramsey.html

those sources say enhancement of the tape reveals Burke's voice in the background, asking his parents "What did you find?" John Ramsey allegedly can be heard shouting to Burke, "We are not talking to you," and Patsy shouts "Oh my Jesus, oh my Jesus."

The statements were recorded after Patsy Ramsey mistakenly thought she had hung up the telephone after making the 911 call.

A full transcript of the tape is being printed today in this week's National Enquirer. The general content of the transcript in the supermarket tabloid is accurate, according to sources familiar with the investigation.