Was Burke involved?

[Mama2JML]

Regarding child sex abuse:

Only 30% of perpetrators are family members. 60% of perps are known to the victim, but not related. 10% are strangers.

Why don't we follow the statistics and start branching out?...

http://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/child-sexual-abuse.aspx

 

[UKGuy]

Regarding child sex abuse:

Only 30% of perpetrators are family members. 60% of perps are known to the victim, but not related. 10% are strangers.

Why don't we follow the statistics and start branching out?...

http://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/child-sexual-abuse.aspx

Mama2JML,
Sounds interesting, 10% are strangers, does that mean 90% probability, that its not a stranger, i.e. family related - oops!


.

 

[Tawny]

Did ANYONE who is non-RDI read the links posted previously?

They CLEARLY stated that most sibling molestation cases are not reported as "child sexual abuse". Correct stats and research will be found by specifically researching "sibling molestation" or "sibling sexual abuse", etc. But again, most cases, especially those involving children of the age that BR and JBR were will not be called "abuse".

 

[Venom]

otg- Great post!

Frigga- Yes, people are capable of anything.

Those who say BR was too frail, and scrawny to have done it- How did he play baseball?

 

[UKGuy]

It is a rumor until proven otherwise.

That's the rumor. Source, please?

Enlighten me...

:facepalm:

Enlighten me...
It is not a rumor LHP in her testimony to the BPD, attested she walked into a bedroom where JonBnenet and Burke were undercovers, so at a minimum they were playing doctors.

 

[DeeDee249]

I think most parents would not report a child for molesting a sibling. In this case, police did not pursue it (BR as perp) because they were not ALLOWED to pursue it. Colorado law prevented any child under 10 (BR was two weeks from his 10th birthday) from being charged -or even named as a suspect- in any crime, no matter how severe.
That being said, and I am sure the males here can attest, boys far younger than 9 have the ability to be aroused and have erections. Usually at a young age there are no viable sperm in the seminal fluid, but the parts work. Penetration is possible, and every once in a while you hear of a case of sexual assault (including penile penetration) by a young boy. Kids are sexualized younger today. The stimulation is there- and in this home, JB was portrayed in a sexual way. JB told a neighbor one time that she was going to be a witch for Halloween, but "not a scary witch- I'm going to be a SEXY witch". That had to come from Patsy. There was a description of the costume- I have seen that exact costume, in stores but also in catalogs like chasing-fireflies. I wouldn't describe it as sexy in the children's version. There is a fitted bodice with crisscrossed straps and crinoline skirt. It is pretty, not sexy. Unless your mother wants to make it so.

 

[Chelly]

:goodpost:

BDI is possible, but so unlikely it can be ruled out with the application of some common sense.

First of all, BDI presupposes that B and JB stayed awake and ready to party after an enirmous day full of excitement. B, maybe, but JB would probably be sleeping like the baby she was.

So, next step in BDI is that he molested her in bed...then what?

How did he half kill her silently in the bed?

Did he strangle her (not an easy feat for a large man let alone a scrawny child.

So she's half dead in her room - what then?

He calls his parents who IMMEDIATELY KNOW something that even a court would struggle with, that a 9 year old killed his sister.

This would be the LAST thing I would think of.

So, finding one child injured and the other saying "i didnt mean it" caused P or R to carry JB down to the basement (still alive), to tie her up, molest her with a paintbrush, then hit her so hard on the head her skull split in two.

So where was Burke?

Placed in his room and told not to come out, or holding the torch so his parent could see to assault JB with a paintbrush?

Common sense says he would have been shut in his room and instructed not to come out or say a word.

So why did he?

Lastly if B was raping his sister, WHO sexualised him????? That would be a massive indicator to any expert, that he'd be a victim himself.

Lastly, any parent who would stage and murder instead of calling 911 is clearly deranged. Hiw likely is it that all three members of that family all share an identical psychopathy, which caused them to treat their dying daughter like a wounded deer instead of their much loved baby?

Interfering with a corpse is illegal, murdering a suffering child is also illegal. As far as i know neither parent had murdered before so it wasnt just a regular thing to do to solve a problem.

Patsy sitting on her butt and calmly writing the note tends to indicate a massive detachment to me.

I love how folks say "KISS" and then go on to dream up the most unlikely scenarios!

KISS states that he who raped, murdered, and he who murdered, also staged.

BBM
Clearly you are referring to me as I've used KISS as my signature for quite some time and I posted a BDI theory a few pages back.
Respectfully, who are you to determine what KISS states?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Did ANYONE who is non-RDI read the links posted previously?

They CLEARLY stated that most sibling molestation cases are not reported as "child sexual abuse". Correct stats and research will be found by specifically researching "sibling molestation" or "sibling sexual abuse", etc. But again, most cases, especially those involving children of the age that BR and JBR were will not be called "abuse".

* and never get reported as most parents prefer not to as well as victims not disclosing until long after they're adults.


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[DeeDee249]

A child being strangled will certainly NOT struggle if the child being strangled is already unconscious from a blow to the head. The coroner attested to the FACT that the ligature was circumferential, indicating NO movement up or down. The marks on her neck were PROVED to be petechia, and not scratch marks (which some people who refuse to read or view the autopsy photos still believe). The tape on her lips showed no evidence of a struggle or pressure from her tongue. She was unconscious or dead when that was placed as well. Nearly every forensic expert who studied this case agreed that the head bash came first. After that, JB was instantly unconscious- she never struggled against anything ever again.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It has been mentioned often in support of BDI theories ('discussed' not so much), but my many searches have not resulted in a source. ...other than, as I have previously stated, the tabloid 'report' per an anonymous source.

ETA, the tabloid 'source':
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

Then you must not have went back far enough. It's here. I know that I personally posted several along with other posters.




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[Linda7NJ]

:goodpost:



BDI is possible, but so unlikely it can be ruled out with the application of some common sense.



First of all, BDI presupposes that B and JB stayed awake and ready to party after an enirmous day full of excitement. B, maybe, but JB would probably be sleeping like the baby she was.



So, next step in BDI is that he molested her in bed...then what?



How did he half kill her silently in the bed?



Did he strangle her (not an easy feat for a large man let alone a scrawny child.



So she's half dead in her room - what then?



He calls his parents who IMMEDIATELY KNOW something that even a court would struggle with, that a 9 year old killed his sister.



This would be the LAST thing I would think of.



So, finding one child injured and the other saying "i didnt mean it" caused P or R to carry JB down to the basement (still alive), to tie her up, molest her with a paintbrush, then hit her so hard on the head her skull split in two.



So where was Burke?



Placed in his room and told not to come out, or holding the torch so his parent could see to assault JB with a paintbrush?



Common sense says he would have been shut in his room and instructed not to come out or say a word.



So why did he?



Lastly if B was raping his sister, WHO sexualised him????? That would be a massive indicator to any expert, that he'd be a victim himself.



Lastly, any parent who would stage and murder instead of calling 911 is clearly deranged. Hiw likely is it that all three members of that family all share an identical psychopathy, which caused them to treat their dying daughter like a wounded deer instead of their much loved baby?



Interfering with a corpse is illegal, murdering a suffering child is also illegal. As far as i know neither parent had murdered before so it wasnt just a regular thing to do to solve a problem.



Patsy sitting on her butt and calmly writing the note tends to indicate a massive detachment to me.



I love how folks say "KISS" and then go on to dream up the most unlikely scenarios!



KISS states that he who raped, murdered, and he who murdered, also staged.

The KISS ....is what I call my Patsy and only Patsy theory

That's my other favorite theory!


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[MyBelle]

Posting comment you replied to...




BBM

where was that ever documented?

Over the last couple of days there have been numerous stats posted re: juvenile offenders, and what they're capable of, including sexual molestation & /or rape, as well as murder. Quite a few of those stats highlighted these types of crimes in the under 10 set.

Whether or not burke committed this crime or whether he was capable of perpetrating this type of crime are 2 different arguments, and shouldn't be combined.

And sorry the "he's so frail," defense is pretty weak. In none of the stats cited was it a prerequisite that a juvenile be some oversized, strapping youth.

Stats are useless as evidence. Dr. Wecht discusses his findings and the opinions of other specialists in his books. None of them concluded nine-year-old Burke was capable of carrying out the auto-erotic fantasy strangulation and bludgeoning of his young sister that was revealed in the autopsy.

Mortal Evidence by Wecht and
Who Killed Jonbenet Ramsey?
by Charles Bosworth (Author), Cyril H. Wecht (Author)

 

[MyBelle]

A child being strangled will certainly NOT struggle if the child being strangled is already unconscious from a blow to the head. The coroner attested to the FACT that the ligature was circumferential, indicating NO movement up or down. The marks on her neck were PROVED to be petechia, and not scratch marks (which some people who refuse to read or view the autopsy photos still believe). The tape on her lips showed no evidence of a struggle or pressure from her tongue. She was unconscious or dead when that was placed as well. Nearly every forensic expert who studied this case agreed that the head bash came first. After that, JB was instantly unconscious- she never struggled against anything ever again.

Dr. Wecht's opinion was the head blow came last, shortly before death but it really doesn't matter. I've not found any expert opinion that has concluded the massive damage inflicted on the little girl was by 9-year-old child.

 

[MyBelle]

otg- Great post!

Frigga- Yes, people are capable of anything.

Those who say BR was too frail, and scrawny to have done it- How did he play baseball?

It's not all that difficult to play baseball. The difficulty comes with playing it well.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Dr. Wecht's opinion was the head blow came last, shortly before death but it really doesn't matter. I've not found any expert opinion that has concluded the massive damage inflicted on the little girl was by 9-year-old child.

That's because there has never been a conclusion to this case.

To so easily dismiss the possibility based on his age and scrawniness would be a mistake. IMO He makes a decent suspect...and one that explains his parents willingness to conceal the crime and stage the scene.


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[bettybaby00]

It's not all that difficult to play baseball. The difficulty comes with playing it well.

And we're officially in the rabbit hole.

:seeya:

 

[Linda7NJ]

It's not all that difficult to play baseball. The difficulty comes with playing it well.

LMAO true!


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[MyBelle]

MyBelle,
You cite no evidence to support your view, you simply assert what you believe as fact.

Whereas in the real world any of the R's might be responsible for JonBenet's molestation.

If you wish to refer to the realm of probability, with respect to, JR abusing his daughter you must publish the relevant data.

Your opinion whilst interesting, is not definitive!

.

JMO. Just My Opinion. I assert my opinion. The autopsy report and conclusions of pathology experts certainly is "data" supporting the killer belonged to the adult male universe and wasn't a fourth-grader engaging in an auto-erotic fantasy with his little sister.

 

[otg]

Maybe I'm just a "softy", but it seems to me if one is confident enough to lay blame for sexual abuse/molestation/incest, assault & murder on a child, then there should be a few damn good reasons for doing so. So far all I see is rumor, speculation and gossip. All the while, there exists unsourced fibers, DNA, prints, and other exculpatory evidence. As well, there is no consensus among RDIs regarding motive, nor are there any past & present indications the person being accused, a child at the time, should be held responsible for any assault against his sister.

Mama (you softy, you), I can only speak for myself, but I’ve never laid blame on anyone but the Ramsey parents for the situation I feel they created. And even at that, I can’t be too hard on them because I don’t think either one of them ever thought the situation would get so out of control that something like this would happen. I believe they loved both (all) their children, and like any parent will say (as I have said to my own), I think they would “do anything in the world to protect them.” But beyond that blame I place on John and Patsy, I’ve only expressed my opinion of what the evidence tells me. It tells you (and others) something else. I’m fine with that. This isn’t a court of law where we’re trying to prove a position. We’re only expressing our opinions. If you want to say that’s rumor, speculation, and gossip, so be it -- we all here are guilty because that’s what we’re each doing. No one here is able to prove anything with the information we have. That’s a job for lawyers and none of us is being paid for billable hours (at least, I'm not).

 

[otg]

One thing I have come to understand in my almost 49 years on this planet is that human beings are capable of anything.

Under the right circumstances they are capable of noble feats of strength, bravery and selflessness. Think of all those people who lose their own lives trying to save the life of a stranger... a complete and utter stranger. Someone who has lifted a thousand pound car off of a loved one or stranger. People who have put themselves in the line of fire to save someone they may not know. The best of the best as far as us humans go, in my humble opinion.

But there are people who under the wrong circumstances are capable of the most vile, disgusting, heinous things. People who everyone who knows them, intimately or otherwise, say this person is not capable of what they are being accused of. People who never in their right mind would believe themselves capable of eating the flesh of another human being then find themselves stranded, on a mountaintop, with no other hope of survival but to eat another human being. People who, upon finding a spouse or mate in an intimate act with someone else become full of rage and find themselves in the middle of a murderous rampage. People whose minds snap under military or civilian distress and find themselves doing something previously thought abhorrent.

If it is physically or humanly possible- we are all capable of things we never fathomed we might do under the wrong or right circumstances.

I think this is what happened to the Ramsey's. John and Patsy, at least. I fear Burke may be a sociopath or psychopath. It does happen.

Very well said, and I agree completely with your sentiments. Put another way... bad situations/decisions/actions lead to bad consequences. But I still believe, in spite of everything... Well, someone else said it much better than I could. The full quote is often left out, but you’ll remember the main point:

“It's difficult in times like these: ideals, dreams and cherished hopes rise within us, only to be crushed by grim reality. It's a wonder I haven't abandoned all my ideals, they seem so absurd and impractical. Yet I cling to them because I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart. I simply can't build my hopes on a foundation of confusion, misery, and death. I hear the approaching thunder that, one day, will destroy us too, I feel the suffering of millions. And yet, when I look up at the sky, I somehow feel that this cruelty too shall end, and that peace and tranquility will return once again.”

​

[Also, Frigga: I think the photos Kolar mentions taken 48 hours afterwards were taken of them at the PD when they were there for fingerprints, DNA swabs, etc. -- standard practice for the family of a victim. Those photos will never be released.]