Was Burke involved?

[eileenhawkeye]

With all respect to poor JBR, we don't know that the contact with BR was "forced or coerced." I am aware that statement will ignite anger and extremely uncomfortable emotions in some members, but it doesn't make JBR LESS of a victim simply because she wasn't forced, in this situation (IF that is the case).

Burke was 3 years older than her. There had to be some power balance going on. So maybe there was no force, but not sure if it could have been a mutual agreement to try things.

 

[Tawny]

Burke was 3 years older than her. There had to be some power balance going on. So maybe there was no force, but not sure if it could have been a mutual agreement to try things.

I don't disagree. I just can't deny the possibility that JBR may have been curious as well, or at least not forced. JMO! I shudder at the thought, don't like it at all.

 

[MyBelle]

Playing doctor might be rather common, but research suggests sibling sexual abuse/molestation is not nearly common.

"...2%-4% of people have been sexually victimized by a sibling as the sexual contact involved some degree of forced or coercive activity." http://www.pandys.org/articles/siblingsexualabuse.html

Thanks. I totally agree. Just because something is a possibility doesn't make it evidence in this case. There is absolutely no evidence Burke sexually abused his little sister. If she was a victim of abuse, her father would be a far likely suspect.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Also, keep in mind, this story was reported in a tabloid by an anonymous source.

No it wasn't. It was reported by a housekeeper of the Ramsey's.


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[Mama2JML]

No it wasn't. It was reported by a housekeeper of the Ramsey's.


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That's the rumor. Please cite your source.

 

[Mama2JML]

Maybe I'm just a "softy", but it seems to me if one is confident enough to lay blame for sexual abuse/molestation/incest, assault & murder on a child, then there should be a few damn good reasons for doing so. So far all I see is rumor, speculation and gossip. All the while, there exists unsourced fibers, DNA, prints, and other exculpatory evidence. As well, there is no consensus among RDIs regarding motive, nor are there any past & present indications the person being accused, a child at the time, should be held responsible for any assault against his sister.

 

[otg]

I believe Burke was responsible for the actions that caused JonBenet’s death. There. I’ve said it. For years it was hard to say without most other posters jumping down my throat for even writing the suggestion, or so much as making an implication of such. But since Kolar's book, a lot of the gaps in the public's perception have been filled in, and the subject can at least be openly discussed -- for the most part.

Still, I usually try to avoid saying it unless it’s brought up by someone else who asks a question that makes me feel compelled to answer. I do try to dance around it by referring to the person who tied the ligature, sexually assaulted her, or struck the head blow by saying “he/she”, or “the assailant”, or some other such generic term referring to the person when talking about the evidence because no one here can be certain about it (as I am not either). And I would much rather discuss the evidence and let readers and posters decide for themselves who they think it implicates.

But I have to say that no one here keeps the BDI theory alive more than those who try to dispute it. Whenever the discussion gets “hot” about this subject (as it did recently), I get messages or emails from members here who either don’t post much, or who in some cases have never posted, saying they agree, or that they have just realized it may be true because of what was said by me or others who joined in on the discussion. So I realize that when we discuss this with someone who tries to dispute the possibility, it most likely won’t change that person’s mind -- but it will lead others to realize that this might be the reason JonBenet needlessly died. Regardless of who physically did the actions that caused her death that night, (as I’ve said before) I still think the ultimate responsibility for the circumstances that caused it to happen lies at the feet of both John and Patsy Ramsey. But that too is just my humble opinion. I wish I was wrong, but I don’t think I am about that.

So I say, here and now, thank you to those who like to try and dispel BDI theories, because you are helping to convince others of just the opposite of what you think. If enough of the public realizes the possible involvement of this person (who was a mere child himself at the time, and not legally or morally responsible for his actions), more pressure may come for him to answer questions from the investigators who would like to clear up this blemish on the reputation of their community. Maybe because of our discussions someone who works with him will read something one day and say to him while standing at the company coffee pot, “You know, there are a lot of people who think you were involved with your sister’s death.” Maybe someone will say something to John one day that makes him feel compelled to say something more than that it’s all “just more drama.” And if one of them does come forward to actually speak with investigators (although not likely), perhaps those who have carried the torch of “justice” for JonBenet for so long will get some real answers -- even (and especially) if the answers point to someone else.

Thanks again for all the help,

(otg)

 

[Frigga]

Very well said otg, your candor is much appreciated by me!

 

[bettybaby00]

I believe Burke was responsible for the actions that caused JonBenet’s death. There. I’ve said it. For years it was hard to say without most other posters jumping down my throat for even writing the suggestion, or so much as making an implication of such. But since Kolar's book, a lot of the gaps in the public's perception have been filled in, and the subject can at least be openly discussed -- for the most part.

Still, I usually try to avoid saying it unless it’s brought up by someone else who asks a question that makes me feel compelled to answer. I do try to dance around it by referring to the person who tied the ligature, sexually assaulted her, or struck the head blow by saying “he/she”, or “the assailant”, or some other such generic term referring to the person when talking about the evidence because no one here can be certain about it (as I am not either). And I would much rather discuss the evidence and let readers and posters decide for themselves who they think it implicates.

But I have to say that no one here keeps the BDI theory alive more than those who try to dispute it. Whenever the discussion gets “hot” about this subject (as it did recently), I get messages or emails from members here who either don’t post much, or who in some cases have never posted, saying they agree, or that they have just realized it may be true because of what was said by me or others who joined in on the discussion. So I realize that when we discuss this with someone who tries to dispute the possibility, it most likely won’t change that person’s mind -- but it will lead others to realize that this might be the reason JonBenet needlessly died. Regardless of who physically did the actions that caused her death that night, (as I’ve said before) I still think the ultimate responsibility for the circumstances that caused it to happen lies at the feet of both John and Patsy Ramsey. But that too is just my humble opinion. I wish I was wrong, but I don’t think I am about that.

So I say, here and now, thank you to those who like to try and dispel BDI theories, because you are helping to convince others of just the opposite of what you think. If enough of the public realizes the possible involvement of this person (who was a mere child himself at the time, and not legally or morally responsible for his actions), more pressure may come for him to answer questions from the investigators who would like to clear up this blemish on the reputation of their community. Maybe because of our discussions someone who works with him will read something one day and say to him while standing at the company coffee pot, “You know, there are a lot of people who think you were involved with your sister’s death.” Maybe someone will say something to John one day that makes him feel compelled to say something more than that it’s all “just more drama.” And if one of them does come forward to actually speak with investigators (although not likely), perhaps those who have carried the torch of “justice” for JonBenet for so long will get some real answers -- even (and especially) if the answers point to someone else.

Thanks again for all the help,

(otg)

:goodpost:

I greatly admire your willingness to educate--or your attempts to
You often provide very informative technical info, and it's great to learn about the positive side of these debates, as sometimes it feels more like a futile merry-go-round.

:cheer:

As Kolar wrote...

I have undertaken this work not because I believe a prosecution of any perpetrator of this crime will likely result from it, but because I believe it will move public perceptions of this case closer to the truth.

 

[Frigga]

One thing I have come to understand in my almost 49 years on this planet is that human beings are capable of anything.

Under the right circumstances they are capable of noble feats of strength, bravery and selflessness. Think of all those people who lose their own lives trying to save the life of a stranger... a complete and utter stranger. Someone who has lifted a thousand pound car off of a loved one or stranger. People who have put themselves in the line of fire to save someone they may not know. The best of the best as far as us humans go, in my humble opinion.

But there are people who under the wrong circumstances are capable of the most vile, disgusting, heinous things. People who everyone who knows them, intimately or otherwise, say this person is not capable of what they are being accused of. People who never in their right mind would believe themselves capable of eating the flesh of another human being then find themselves stranded, on a mountaintop, with no other hope of survival but to eat another human being. People who, upon finding a spouse or mate in an intimate act with someone else become full of rage and find themselves in the middle of a murderous rampage. People whose minds snap under military or civilian distress and find themselves doing something previously thought abhorrent.

If it is physically or humanly possible- we are all capable of things we never fathomed we might do under the wrong or right circumstances.

I think this is what happened to the Ramsey's. John and Patsy, at least. I fear Burke may be a sociopath or psychopath. It does happen.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I believe Burke was responsible for the actions that caused JonBenet’s death. There. I’ve said it. For years it was hard to say without most other posters jumping down my throat for even writing the suggestion, or so much as making an implication of such. But since Kolar's book, a lot of the gaps in the public's perception have been filled in, and the subject can at least be openly discussed -- for the most part.

Still, I usually try to avoid saying it unless it’s brought up by someone else who asks a question that makes me feel compelled to answer. I do try to dance around it by referring to the person who tied the ligature, sexually assaulted her, or struck the head blow by saying “he/she”, or “the assailant”, or some other such generic term referring to the person when talking about the evidence because no one here can be certain about it (as I am not either). And I would much rather discuss the evidence and let readers and posters decide for themselves who they think it implicates.

But I have to say that no one here keeps the BDI theory alive more than those who try to dispute it. Whenever the discussion gets “hot” about this subject (as it did recently), I get messages or emails from members here who either don’t post much, or who in some cases have never posted, saying they agree, or that they have just realized it may be true because of what was said by me or others who joined in on the discussion. So I realize that when we discuss this with someone who tries to dispute the possibility, it most likely won’t change that person’s mind -- but it will lead others to realize that this might be the reason JonBenet needlessly died. Regardless of who physically did the actions that caused her death that night, (as I’ve said before) I still think the ultimate responsibility for the circumstances that caused it to happen lies at the feet of both John and Patsy Ramsey. But that too is just my humble opinion. I wish I was wrong, but I don’t think I am about that.

So I say, here and now, thank you to those who like to try and dispel BDI theories, because you are helping to convince others of just the opposite of what you think. If enough of the public realizes the possible involvement of this person (who was a mere child himself at the time, and not legally or morally responsible for his actions), more pressure may come for him to answer questions from the investigators who would like to clear up this blemish on the reputation of their community. Maybe because of our discussions someone who works with him will read something one day and say to him while standing at the company coffee pot, “You know, there are a lot of people who think you were involved with your sister’s death.” Maybe someone will say something to John one day that makes him feel compelled to say something more than that it’s all “just more drama.” And if one of them does come forward to actually speak with investigators (although not likely), perhaps those who have carried the torch of “justice” for JonBenet for so long will get some real answers -- even (and especially) if the answers point to someone else.

Thanks again for all the help,

(otg)

Bravo!

Like I've stated countless times. He was always on my radar, not often did I post my suspicions here. I'm not married to any particular theory... But BDI is a very valid theory. IMO


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[Tawny]

The question posed was why some BDI believed BR was responsible. Then there were answers that could explain. And then they were dismissed. For no other reason than we don't WANT to believe it's possible.

 

[Tawny]

I believe Burke was responsible for the actions that caused JonBenet’s death. There. I’ve said it. For years it was hard to say without most other posters jumping down my throat for even writing the suggestion, or so much as making an implication of such. But since Kolar's book, a lot of the gaps in the public's perception have been filled in, and the subject can at least be openly discussed -- for the most part.

Still, I usually try to avoid saying it unless it’s brought up by someone else who asks a question that makes me feel compelled to answer. I do try to dance around it by referring to the person who tied the ligature, sexually assaulted her, or struck the head blow by saying “he/she”, or “the assailant”, or some other such generic term referring to the person when talking about the evidence because no one here can be certain about it (as I am not either). And I would much rather discuss the evidence and let readers and posters decide for themselves who they think it implicates.

But I have to say that no one here keeps the BDI theory alive more than those who try to dispute it. Whenever the discussion gets “hot” about this subject (as it did recently), I get messages or emails from members here who either don’t post much, or who in some cases have never posted, saying they agree, or that they have just realized it may be true because of what was said by me or others who joined in on the discussion. So I realize that when we discuss this with someone who tries to dispute the possibility, it most likely won’t change that person’s mind -- but it will lead others to realize that this might be the reason JonBenet needlessly died. Regardless of who physically did the actions that caused her death that night, (as I’ve said before) I still think the ultimate responsibility for the circumstances that caused it to happen lies at the feet of both John and Patsy Ramsey. But that too is just my humble opinion. I wish I was wrong, but I don’t think I am about that.

So I say, here and now, thank you to those who like to try and dispel BDI theories, because you are helping to convince others of just the opposite of what you think. If enough of the public realizes the possible involvement of this person (who was a mere child himself at the time, and not legally or morally responsible for his actions), more pressure may come for him to answer questions from the investigators who would like to clear up this blemish on the reputation of their community. Maybe because of our discussions someone who works with him will read something one day and say to him while standing at the company coffee pot, “You know, there are a lot of people who think you were involved with your sister’s death.” Maybe someone will say something to John one day that makes him feel compelled to say something more than that it’s all “just more drama.” And if one of them does come forward to actually speak with investigators (although not likely), perhaps those who have carried the torch of “justice” for JonBenet for so long will get some real answers -- even (and especially) if the answers point to someone else.

Thanks again for all the help,

(otg)

Thank you for this.

 

[Mama2JML]

I believe Burke was responsible for the actions that caused JonBenet’s death. There. I’ve said it. For years it was hard to say without most other posters jumping down my throat for even writing the suggestion, or so much as making an implication of such. But since Kolar's book, a lot of the gaps in the public's perception have been filled in, and the subject can at least be openly discussed -- for the most part.

What gaps have been filled in? What evidence did Kolar reveal that implicates Burke? I have the book, I've read it, and I've re-read it, but I guess it's possible I missed the silver bullet...

Still, I usually try to avoid saying it unless it’s brought up by someone else who asks a question that makes me feel compelled to answer. I do try to dance around it by referring to the person who tied the ligature, sexually assaulted her, or struck the head blow by saying “he/she”, or “the assailant”, or some other such generic term referring to the person when talking about the evidence because no one here can be certain about it (as I am not either). And I would much rather discuss the evidence and let readers and posters decide for themselves who they think it implicates.

...seems most responsible and respectable to me.

But I have to say that no one here keeps the BDI theory alive more than those who try to dispute it. Whenever the discussion gets “hot” about this subject (as it did recently), I get messages or emails from members here who either don’t post much, or who in some cases have never posted, saying they agree, or that they have just realized it may be true because of what was said by me or others who joined in on the discussion. So I realize that when we discuss this with someone who tries to dispute the possibility, it most likely won’t change that person’s mind -- but it will lead others to realize that this might be the reason JonBenet needlessly died. Regardless of who physically did the actions that caused her death that night, (as I’ve said before) I still think the ultimate responsibility for the circumstances that caused it to happen lies at the feet of both John and Patsy Ramsey. But that too is just my humble opinion. I wish I was wrong, but I don’t think I am about that.

So I say, here and now, thank you to those who like to try and dispel BDI theories, because you are helping to convince others of just the opposite of what you think. If enough of the public realizes the possible involvement of this person (who was a mere child himself at the time, and not legally or morally responsible for his actions), more pressure may come for him to answer questions from the investigators who would like to clear up this blemish on the reputation of their community. Maybe because of our discussions someone who works with him will read something one day and say to him while standing at the company coffee pot, “You know, there are a lot of people who think you were involved with your sister’s death.” Maybe someone will say something to John one day that makes him feel compelled to say something more than that it’s all “just more drama.” And if one of them does come forward to actually speak with investigators (although not likely), perhaps those who have carried the torch of “justice” for JonBenet for so long will get some real answers -- even (and especially) if the answers point to someone else.

Thanks again for all the help,

(otg)

If all this speculation about Burke Ramsey leads to justice for his sister, I welcome it. ...regardless of WDI.

...and, in case my participation in this thread (& @ WS in general) was unclear:

I'm not trying to dispel anything other than unfounded rumors, gossip, and lies. So please, do us all (most importantly JonBenét) a favor & post the facts and any reliable evidence that implicates Burke Ramsey in the assault &/or murder of his sister.

 

[MyBelle]

Maybe I'm just a "softy", but it seems to me if one is confident enough to lay blame for sexual abuse/molestation/incest, assault & murder on a child, then there should be a few damn good reasons for doing so. So far all I see is rumor, speculation and gossip. All the while, there exists unsourced fibers, DNA, prints, and other exculpatory evidence. As well, there is no consensus among RDIs regarding motive, nor are there any past & present indications the person being accused, a child at the time, should be held responsible for any assault against his sister.

ITA. It's one thing to suggest that a scrawny 9-yr-old got angry with his sister and bashed her in the head and his controlling mother covered it up is a believable scenario. It is impossible for me to make a giant leap to a conclusion a 9-year-old was also sexually molesting his sister on an ongoing basis. There is absolutely nothing to support such a wild accusation.

 

[Frigga]

Someone was chronically molesting her. Why not Burke? You prove it!

Just curious, what does the description "scrawny" have to do with anything?

Scrawny people don't get angry... or scrawny people don't have the strength to bash someone?

 

[gramcracker]

That's the rumor. Please cite your source.

why? it won't be on the "approved" list of sources (because that list is so short it's nearly nonexistent)

 

[gramcracker]

Someone was chronically molesting her. Why not Burke? You prove it!

Just curious, what does the description "scrawny" have to do with anything?

is there a minimum BMI for perps now?

 

[Frigga]

If I was the innocent sibling of a murdered baby sister, who was in the home the night she was murdered- in fact asleep in the closest room to her and was asked by detectives years later to come in and answer some questions- I would be there, after all, I have nothing to hide. I would want the perp to know I was going to be there, and I would want to do all I could to help facilitate the finding and apprehension of said perp. Even if I thought I had nothing to add or help- I would hope and I would try- for my baby sister. What if?

 

[Frigga]

Are the photographs available that Kolar writes about, of Burke, Patsy and John Ramsey taken 48 hours after JonBenet was found dead in her home with a kidnapping ransom note?