Was Burke involved?

[EastCoast]

(bbm)Was she? (I don't think so.) I don't buy Dr. Lucy's opinion that JonBenet was alive for up to 2 hours after the head blow. She based that opinion (according to Kolar) on cerebral edema and tissue necrosis. The amount of edema was affected by strangulation, and the amount of necrosis can be accelerated by sloppy autopsy procedure. She only had a fixed section of brain and photos to make her analysis, and it was in complete disagreement with nearly every other medical examiner consulted.

rry OTG, I misread that and went off on ML.

 

[bettybaby00]

I can keep c/p'ing if necessary.

I'll help

Ever since I figured out how to C&P from Kindle I've found it addicting :lol:

Not all of these statics relate to sibling incest, however it certainly helps to dispel the myth that a 9 year old wouldn't/couldn't do these things b/c "he's too young, they can't be sexually excited, etc., etc."

Research into sexually aggressive children was described as being in its “infancy” in the mid1990s. (It appears that the earliest studies on this topic only dated to 1980.)
*The average onset of preadolescent sexual behavior problems (SBP) are between the ages of 6-9 years
*Although the term “sexual” is used, the children’s intentions and motivations for these behaviors may be unrelated to sexual gratification.
*Children act out for many varied reasons. Some may have been the prior victims of sexual abuse.
*Some may act out due to other behavioral problems related to PTSD, anger, fear, or emotional detachment.
*Sexual acting out has been linked to anger, rage, loneliness, and fear.
*FBI UCR reports in 1979 revealed 249 rape arrests for children less than 12 years of age. Sixty-six of those children were under the age of 10.
*Early research conducted in the 1980s provided evidence that preadolescent children’s behaviors can be as aggressive and violent as those of adolescents and adults.
*FBI UCR discontinued reporting the age of offenders in 1980, but the National Center for Juvenile Justice reported a forcible rape rate of .02 per 1000 for 10 and 11 year olds in 1988.
*1990 FBI and media reports in this time period indicate that among adults convicted of sex crimes, approximately 30% said they began offending before they were 9 years old.

Stats specific to SBP

*A 1991 study revealed that some children engaged in behaviors that involved fire-setting, bed-wetting, animal mutilation, and scatological behaviors- (disturbed bodily functions related to urination and elimination).
*A 1993 nationwide survey of SBP therapists identified preadolescent behaviors in 222 children that ranged from voyeurism to coercion: The more serious offenses involved digital penetration, penile intercourse, anal intercourse, bestiality, and ritualistic or sadistic sexual abuse.
*Another 1993 survey conducted in the Northwest revealed that some offenders used physical coercion that included tying up their victims.
*Offenders lack compassion, empathy, and exhibit inadequate social skills.
*A victim may be the object of revenge or anger and could be viewed as the parent’s “favored child” by the perpetrator.
*Families frequently attempt to portray themselves to the world as the “perfect” family.
*Co-morbidity: SBP patients have a higher incidence of psychiatric disorders that include, but are not limited to, attachment disorder and separation anxiety.

Moreover, these studies confirmed that children of his age were capable of committing horrendous acts of physical violence typically thought to have been reserved to adults.

Research continued to find reports of scatological behavior that was associated with SBP diagnoses, and indicated that mental health issues relating to anger, depression, and anxiety were factors that offenders attempted to resolve by acting out sexually.

And lastly....

It was noted in a number of studies that sibling incest was quite prevalent, but it often went underreported and ignored. Contrary to the studies involving extra-familial sexual abuse, research found that it was difficult for parents to report the abuse of one of their children when it has been perpetrated at the hands of another child in the household. One 1991 study referenced in the U.S. Department of Justice article indicated that the duration of sex offending was greatest for sibling offenders. Nearly 45% of the sibling offenders studied in the research had been committing offenses for more than a year. Moreover, sibling offenders were more likely to vaginally or anally penetrate their victims than extra-familial offenders.

Kolar (4734 -4858)

 

[EastCoast]

I have been around lots of children, and I am no expert, but I have seen sexual curiosity begin at about age 6 or 7. Nothing major but just a curiousity among boys.

 

[Tawny]

Respectfully c/p'ed in quotes from your post, bettybaby00:

"Some may act out due to other behavioral problems related to PTSD, anger, fear, or emotional detachment."

I could see PR's cancer scare and treatment causing all of these things, IMO.

"Offenders lack compassion, empathy, and exhibit inadequate social skills."

No concern for his sister the next morning?

"A victim may be the object of revenge or anger and could be viewed as the parent’s “favored child” by the perpetrator."

Need I comment?

"Families frequently attempt to portray themselves to the world as the “perfect” family."

:waiting:

 

[bettybaby00]

Maybe the discrepancy in whether JB was asleep or awake, per what BR and JR said, when they got home that evening, is the answer. I think that she was awake and BR and JBR went to the kitchen for a snack, pineapple, and the head blow occurred there. Parents upstairs, exhausted, etc. BR had nothing to do with basement, coverup, etc.

It's a HUGE part of the answer. Those 2 lies, and their steadfast denial of what those 2 lies represented: these lies were a major component of distancing themselves from JRB "once she was in bed."

Lie #1: she was asleep when we got home...carried her in

Lie #2: what pineapple?

Oops, more than 2

Lie #3: Burke was asleep the whole time, heard nothing, saw nothing, did nothing. Wasn't awake when we called 911

*Dwerp* "we never asked if he saw or heard or did anything b/c he was asleep. So b/c he was asleep, he couldn't of heard anything, but we never asked if he knew anything b/c he was asleep!"

That makes sense........right, RIGHT................RIGHT???????!!!!!!! :facepalm:

 

[EastCoast]

It's a HUGE part of the answer. Those 2 lies, and their steadfast denial of what those 2 lies represented: these lies were a major component of distancing themselves from JRB "once she was in bed."

Lie #1: she was asleep when we got home...carried her in

Lie #2: what pineapple?

Oops, more than 2

Lie #3: Burke was asleep the whole time, heard nothing, saw nothing, did nothing. Wasn't awake when we called 911

*Dwerp* "we never asked if he saw or heard or did anything b/c he was asleep. So b/c he was asleep, he couldn't of heard anything, but but we never asked if he knew anything b/c he was asleep!"

That makes sense........right, RIGHT................RIGHT???????!!!!!!! :facepalm:

Right don't ask the 9 yr. old what happened. Ludicrous. Aww, he was asleep, I wont wake him cause he needs his sleep. Not!! That is not logical.

 

[EastCoast]

If there ever is resolution to this case, BR will be the answer.

 

[bettybaby00]

rry OTG, I misread that and went off on ML.

Going off on ML is never wrong :floorlaugh:

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't believe it is common for a 9-year-old boy to awaken in the middle of the night to lure his little sister to the basement to molest her. In this case, I doubt there is even a shred of evidence to support your theory.



There are other explanations that would better explain Burke's reactions. Such as, he was a 9-year-old boy living in an imperfect family.

No need for him to wake up in the middle of the night. It's my opinion that when they arrived home that evening from delivering presents, John went to bed.
Patsy still had A LOT to do.
I do not believe the Ramsey's, neither one, put the children to bed that night. They were left to their own devices playing with their toys... Burke getting JonBenet a snack of pineapple and himself ice tea...

Something went horribly wrong ...Patsy never made it to bed.. She had lots to do, like writing that ridiculous note, and tying the rope around her daughters neck.

Patsy knew of the incest that was going on, couldn't have that info getting out...

All IMO

IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda7NJ]

Going off on ML is never wrong :floorlaugh:

nope, never !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MyBelle]

Define "common".

"It is estimated that approximately 15% of all people report some kind of sexual activity with a sibling in childhood. More specifically, studies have shown that between 2% (Leder, 1991) and 4% (Finkelhor, 1999) of people have been sexually victimized by a sibling as the sexual contact involved some degree of forced or coercive activity." http://www.pandys.org/articles/siblingsexualabuse.html

http://www.socialworktoday.com/archive/111312p18.shtml

"It is typically only the most extreme cases requiring medical attention or police intervention that are reported. Many cases of sibling abuse occur "under the radar" on without parental or adult intervention." http://outofthefog.net/Relationships/SiblingAbuse.html

"TTypically sibling or cousin sexual contact is defined as "abuse" when it is marked by a five year difference; when the children are less than five years apart in age, the interaction is not deemed abusive unless force, coercion, injury, or penetration occurs. The criteria of force and/or coercion may be the most highly associated with negative outcomes, regardless of the specific sexual behavior (e.g., kissing, fondling, simulated intercourse, or exhibition) experienced (Haugaard and Tilly, 1988). Incidence of sibling or cousin sexual abuse varies greatly among studies, ranging from 10% to 40% among those reporting sexual abuse, although sibling and cousin sexual abuse are about equal in such samples (De Jong, 1988). Typically, the abuse begins when the victim is around six to seven years of age." http://www.psychpage.com/family/library/sib_abuse2.htm


I can keep c/p'ing if necessary.

BBM. Find something to support the contention that the perp was a nine-year-old boy.

 

[MyBelle]

I have been around lots of children, and I am no expert, but I have seen sexual curiosity begin at about age 6 or 7. Nothing major but just a curiousity among boys.

It's a giant leap from curiosity to rape and murder by a nine-year-old. Children are naturally curious because of physical differences, not because they have a sexual appetite that needs to be satisfied. That would only come if they were exposed to sex in some way or a victim of sexual abuse. That's my opinion.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It's a giant leap from curiosity to rape and murder by a nine-year-old. Children are naturally curious because of physical differences, not because they have a sexual appetite that needs to be satisfied. That would only come if they were exposed to sex in some way or a victim of sexual abuse. That's my opinion.

It is quite the leap.

However, Burke presents ...based on the information I have ...as a disturbed child with significant attachment issues ...issues his parents were aware of to a certain extent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MyBelle]

No need for him to wake up in the middle of the night. It's my opinion that when they arrived home that evening from delivering presents, John went to bed.
Patsy still had A LOT to do.
I do not believe the Ramsey's, neither one, put the children to bed that night. They were left to their own devices playing with their toys... Burke getting JonBenet a snack of pineapple and himself ice tea...

Something went horribly wrong ...Patsy never made it to bed.. She had lots to do, like writing that ridiculous note, and tying the rope around her daughters neck.

Patsy knew of the incest that was going on, couldn't have that info getting out...

All IMO

IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think if Burke killed his sister, it was because he hated her or was jealous of their mother's fixation on her and not because he wanted to have sex with her. The scene was staged by Patsy to make it appear sexually motivated because of Burke's age. No cop would believe he was old enough for a sexual assault and they didn't. Isn't that the one thing that threw the entire case into a tailspin?

Patsy concluded Burke was guilty and there had to be something that supported her conclusion. My guess is that he was quite vocal in his hatred of his little sister.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

It's a giant leap from curiosity to rape and murder by a nine-year-old. Children are naturally curious because of physical differences, not because they have a sexual appetite that needs to be satisfied. That would only come if they were exposed to sex in some way or a victim of sexual abuse. That's my opinion.

How many 9 year olds have a beautiful, made to look "sexy" pageant queen for a little sister parading around in full make-up & heels taught to be flirty? The sister that's the OBJECT of all his mothers attention...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MyBelle]

It is quite the leap.

However, Burke presents ...based on the information I have ...as a disturbed child with significant attachment issues ...issues his parents were aware of to a certain extent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't disagree. I just think the sexual assault was part of Patsy's staging.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think if Burke killed his sister, it was because he hated her or was jealous of their mother's fixation on her and not because he wanted to have sex with her. The scene was staged by Patsy to make it appear sexually motivated because of Burke's age. No cop would believe he was old enough for a sexual assault and they didn't. Isn't that the one thing that threw the entire case into a tailspin?



Patsy concluded Burke was guilty and there had to be something that supported her conclusion. My guess is that he was quite vocal in his hatred of his little sister.



JMO

He wasn't too young to consider sexual assault by Burke. It happens. Al the time. Yes, 9 year olds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't disagree. I just think the sexual assault was part of Patsy's staging.

I think the final sexual assault was Patsy....to make it appear someone outside the house did it. To further implicate an intruder she concocted the note, added the rope....but yet...all that brutality... Patsy STILL covered her child with the child's favorite blanket. No intruder would do that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MyBelle]

He wasn't too young to consider sexual assault by Burke. It happens. Al the time. Yes, 9 year olds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't believe it is all that common for 9-year-olds to perpetrate sexual assaults and murder. In fact, I think it would be very rare and investigators in this case didn't pursue it.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't believe it is all that common for 9-year-olds to perpetrate sexual assaults and murder. In fact, I think it would be very rare and investigators in this case didn't pursue it.

Sadly, it isn't rare at all.
It's rare that you'd ever hear about it. Typically, it's handled by CPS and a referral is made for therapy, because CPS doesn't really get involved in "kid on kid" crime in the household.
Murder committed by a 9 year old is rare.... But that happens too.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk