Was Josh Seen Buying A LARGE Amount of Shrink Wrap?

[GrandmaTo4]

The idea of JP trying to incinerate or cremate a body himself (for which purpose he purchases acetlyne torch) is beyond the scope of possiblity for me.
arrot:

<<Snip>>

I agree, kiki. I think it's beyond the scope of possibility, period!

Most people don't realize how difficult it is to cremate a body -- never mind completely burning a body in the freezing - windy - snowy - wilderness. IMO, Josh couldn't have transported enough 10 gallon acetylene tanks in the mini-van to do the job.

See what it takes to cremate a body:

"The human body is about 95% water. In order for the body to burn, the water has to be first evaporated.

In a cremation furnace, to dehydrate a 150 lb. body it will require about 142,500-146,700 BTU. To convert the hydrocarbons, (dehydrated body) into ash is somewhat less.

If we assumed about a 40% efficiency factor overall, (of the cremation oven) including all losses etc, that means that the net energy use would be about 356,250 BTU, or about 356 cubic feet of natural gas."

http://www.funeralassistant.com/consumerinfo/Cremation.htm#Crem1



Furthermore, the temperature necessary to burn a body is enormous -- and could not likely be provided by a hand held acetylene torch for a long enough period of time.

"Q -- How long does it take to cremate a body, (in a cremation oven)?

Cremating at the optimum temperature (1600 - 1800 degrees), the average weighted remains takes 2 to 2 1/2 hours.

Q -- Is the body exposed to an open flame during the cremation process?

Yes, the body is exposed to direct heat and flame. Cremation is performed by placing the deceased in a casket or other container and then placing the casket or container into a cremation chamber where they are subjected to intense heat and flame.

http://www.funeralassistant.com/consumerinfo/Cremation.htm#Crem2

 

[My6]

At first I thought looking at the guy that there was just no way he could have done anything planned.. BUT.. I agree that her inviting a friend over and then suddenly being too sleepy to visit is really odd. I also do not put it past Josh and his Father to plan something especially what we know of his father.. I think he plays alot more into this whole thing than some people realize IMO of course..

 

[My6]

Just a note, though the thought still sickens me to think, but since he won't show them where he went camping and the fact that he was gone and came back with chapped hands, I have often thought of this case and seems it is entirely possible to do at times without anyone even noticing?? I don't know..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4170769&page=1

I have never posted a link so if it doesn't work look up Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach I think you will find her story. Sorry newbie here

 

[GrandmaTo4]

.
<<snip>>
Since the basement and deck weren't finished, and his garage was a complete mess, I am assuming he is the sort of person who starts tasks but doesn't complete them. The appearance of his garage makes me think he has attention deficit disorder.

Perhaps he bought the shrink wrap to weatherize his windows and never got around to it.

(bbm)
PickieChickie, I believe the Powell home was built in 1998. The building codes would have required quality double pane windows.

I doubt very much if anyone with quality double pane windows goes to the trouble of shrink wrapping their windows. The additional gain of insulating value wouldn't be worth the effort or the price of the shrink wrap.

If Josh needed mess protection from painting or sheetrocking, wouldn't he just purchase the cheaper plastic throwaway drop-cloths?

I believe shrink wrap is almost exclusively used for bundling. It would have worked very well to wrap up a body and seal it almost perfectly. _

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Just a note, though the thought still sickens me to think, but since he won't show them where he went camping and the fact that he was gone and came back with chapped hands, I have often thought of this case and seems it is entirely possible to do at times without anyone even noticing?? I don't know..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4170769&page=1

I have never posted a link so if it doesn't work look up Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach I think you will find her story. Sorry newbie here

"Charred human remains of an adult and a fetus were unearthed," the statement read. "There appeared to be the bodies of an adult female with a fetus located near the abdomen region of the female."

It goes to show how difficult it is to get rid of a body by fire. Even the tiny little fetus was still relatively intact, even though the attempted cremation was done in a shielded fire pit for who knows how many hours.

With DNA identification as advanced as it is, Josh would have no particular reason to burn Susan's body because DNA could have been extracted from her bones or teeth. Cremation would have to be totally complete to prevent identification.

Even in a crematorium oven, bone fragments remain. After cremation the remaining bones are ground-up/pulverized and included with the ashes.

 

[diphi]

Just a note, though the thought still sickens me to think, but since he won't show them where he went camping and the fact that he was gone and came back with chapped hands, I have often thought of this case and seems it is entirely possible to do at times without anyone even noticing?? I don't know..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4170769&page=1

I have never posted a link so if it doesn't work look up Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach I think you will find her story. Sorry newbie here

WELCOME, My6! :innocent: Another North Carolina case, I see. Well, we certainly have no shortage of them...

I'm not real sure where you're going with this. Are you suggesting he may have burned her in his backyard or somewhere else?

 

[diphi]

<<Snip>>

I agree, kiki. I think it's beyond the scope of possibility, period!

Most people don't realize how difficult it is to cremate a body -- never mind completely burning a body in the freezing - windy - snowy - wilderness. IMO, Josh couldn't have transported enough 10 gallon acetylene tanks in the mini-van to do the job.

See what it takes to cremate a body:

"The human body is about 95% water. In order for the body to burn, the water has to be first evaporated.

In a cremation furnace, to dehydrate a 150 lb. body it will require about 142,500-146,700 BTU. To convert the hydrocarbons, (dehydrated body) into ash is somewhat less.

If we assumed about a 40% efficiency factor overall, (of the cremation oven) including all losses etc, that means that the net energy use would be about 356,250 BTU, or about 356 cubic feet of natural gas."

http://www.funeralassistant.com/consumerinfo/Cremation.htm#Crem1



Furthermore, the temperature necessary to burn a body is enormous -- and could not likely be provided by a hand held acetylene torch for a long enough period of time.

"Q -- How long does it take to cremate a body, (in a cremation oven)?

Cremating at the optimum temperature (1600 - 1800 degrees), the average weighted remains takes 2 to 2 1/2 hours.

Q -- Is the body exposed to an open flame during the cremation process?

Yes, the body is exposed to direct heat and flame. Cremation is performed by placing the deceased in a casket or other container and then placing the casket or container into a cremation chamber where they are subjected to intense heat and flame.

http://www.funeralassistant.com/consumerinfo/Cremation.htm#Crem2

Very informative. Thanks.

 

[grayjay]

"Charred human remains of an adult and a fetus were unearthed," the statement read. "There appeared to be the bodies of an adult female with a fetus located near the abdomen region of the female."

It goes to show how difficult it is to get rid of a body by fire. Even the tiny little fetus was still relatively intact, even though the attempted cremation was done in a shielded fire pit for who knows how many hours.

With DNA identification as advanced as it is, Josh would have no particular reason to burn Susan's body because DNA could have been extracted from her bones or teeth. Cremation would have to be totally complete to prevent identification.

Even in a crematorium oven, bone fragments remain. After cremation the remaining bones are ground-up/pulverized and included with the ashes.

I'm wondering if the burning of the victim in a case like this is yet another act of rage or a way to cover up just some of the evidence. In any case, I brought up the notion of cremation because it might at least raise the questions of what they're looking for. I never meant to imply complete cremation, and am glad we now know that's out of the question.

 

[Tricia]

I appreciate your sharing a little more information and for creating webslueths! It would be great to know how wide the roll was and how many linear feet were on it and how many days he bought it before Susan disappeared.

Since the basement and deck weren't finished, and his garage was a complete mess, I am assuming he is the sort of person who starts tasks but doesn't complete them. The appearance of his garage makes me think he has attention deficit disorder.

Perhaps he bought the shrink wrap to weatherize his windows and never got around to it.

The thing is Josh could have purchased the shrink wrap for something totally innocent like your posts suggests.

This info could have nothing to do with the case and then again it might have everything to do with it. That is what is so frustrating.

 

[mysticrose]

So I was talking with my husband tonight about the cutting torch, generator and shrink wrap...his thought was of course that Josh wrapped Susan up in the shrink wrap, and maybe used the cutting torch to open up a closed off mine. He said you can use the cutting torch to reweld the grate back in place but it is pretty hard to do, but that the generator could come in handy for an ark welder to weld it back.

It got me thinking though I think the generator may have been used to keep the children warm while they slept in the van instead of running the fuel out of the car.

One other thought wich I have had since this occured is Josh being a realtor, he would know alot about the area. He would also know of homes that where only summer vacation homes probally out in the tulies somewhere. It might be a good idea to look around of properties he may have sold that have larger acreage and perhaps one with a mining claim where the roads are kept up.
It had to be fairly easy access for him given the fact he was driving the van. My van su*ks in the snow and gets stuck easliy so he had to have fairly good ingress to wherever he went...jmo

Eta: It seems to be common knowledge for the most part that when you burn something it usally destroys any evidence that would be left on the item being burned...

 

[My6]

WELCOME, My6! :innocent: Another North Carolina case, I see. Well, we certainly have no shortage of them...

I'm not real sure where you're going with this. Are you suggesting he may have burned her in his backyard or somewhere else?

Just saying it is possible that he burned her somewhere, anywhere in Utah area on Sunday Night, then with the Rental car maybe tried to Bury the remains. Not back yard no. Just sayin it has been done before right in someones back yard, what is not to stop him from doing it out in the desert or rather maybe he actually headed up North or East in the mountains??

 

[Tricia]

Just saying it is possible that he burned her somewhere, anywhere in Utah area on Sunday Night, then with the Rental car maybe tried to Bury the remains. Not back yard no. Just sayin it has been done before right in someones back yard, what is not to stop him from doing it out in the desert or rather maybe he actually headed up North or East in the mountains??

Welcome My6. Great Post.

This is one of the most frustrating cases I have ever come across.

We all know Josh had something to do with Susan's disappearance but there are too many lose ends to make a case, yet anyway.

 

[HollyHawk]

Some people who were mum are now starting to talk, including friends and family members of Susan Powell. We all know keeping things to ourselves is very difficult. It would be a shame if the information was just a false rumor spread around. I do believe the information about the torch because a person who spoke to the person it was purchased from told me about it, someone who doesn't have a fake Facebook profile and someone who has been involved in conducting ground searches for Susan Powell.

That was me, Tricia. I used a different name here. I am relieved that people are starting to talk. I just HOPE they gave this info to police in the beginning. Thanks.

 

[kiki the parrot]

<<Snip>>

I agree, kiki. I think it's beyond the scope of possibility, period!

Most people don't realize how difficult it is to cremate a body -- never mind completely burning a body in the freezing - windy - snowy - wilderness. IMO, Josh couldn't have transported enough 10 gallon acetylene tanks in the mini-van to do the job.

Even in a crematorium oven, bone fragments remain. After cremation the remaining bones are ground-up/pulverized and included with the ashes.

(snip) Exactly. Yet while I realize a body could never be completely incinerated using any ordinary heat source under most any circumstances, I didn't think anybody was suggesting a torch would've been used directly--rather to ignite or maintain a burning fire. I think both melting ice, or cutting a grate, are also possibilities.

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

At first I thought looking at the guy that there was just no way he could have done anything planned.. BUT.. I agree that her inviting a friend over and then suddenly being too sleepy to visit is really odd. I also do not put it past Josh and his Father to plan something especially what we know of his father.. I think he plays alot more into this whole thing than some people realize IMO of course..

As I mentioned earlier, it even occurred to me that a tranquilizer might make it possible to use shrinkwrap as a murder weapon :/ (yeesh...) but then again why, when you could just poison them all in one step kwim :sheesh:

arrot:

 

[PickieChickie]

Details I'd like to know:

Shrink wrap:
The width and linear feet on the roll
The date it was purchased

Cutting torch:
The style that was purchased
The time it was purchased on Monday, December 7, 2009

Generator:
When did JP purchase it?
Did he buy it new or used?
Did anyone who was at the Powell home when JP returned on December 7, 2009 actually see a generator in the back of his van? If yes, what style was it?

Extension cord:
Did anyone see a heavy duty, outdoor extension cord in the back of JP's van when he returned on December 7, 2009?

What else was in the van when he returned on December 7, 2009?

Were the boys acting "strange" when JP returned on December 7, 2009?

 

[PickieChickie]

(snip) I think both melting ice, or cutting a grate, are also possibilities.

arrot:

Maybe he used the cutting torch to warm his hands because it would be less suspicious than buying gloves! Lol! After all, he appears not to be the brightest bulb on the string! Lol!

Webslueth: Hello? Yes, did you rent a car to a weird guy wearing a blue beanie with a cutting torch stuffed in his jacket?
Rental car agent: Your mean the crack head?
Webslueth: What do you mean?
Rental car agent: Well, we figured he must be if he carries one with him everywhere he goes?
Webslueth: I don't get it!
Rental car agent: Let me put it to you this way. Any guy who gets dropped off by a Taxi carrying a cutting torch has to be a crack head!
Webslueth: OK! Did the guy have fat lips and the top one sticks up like he's snarling when he talks?
Rental car agent: I didn't notice! I was just hoping he'd offer me some crack!

 

[kiki the parrot]

I doubt very much if anyone with quality double pane windows goes to the trouble of shrink wrapping their windows. The additional gain of insulating value wouldn't be worth the effort or the price of the shrink wrap.

If Josh needed mess protection from painting or sheetrocking, wouldn't he just purchase the cheaper plastic throwaway drop-cloths?

I believe shrink wrap is almost exclusively used for bundling. It would have worked very well to wrap up a body and seal it almost perfectly. _

(snip, bbm) Hi grandma... For someone whose concern was that the body and it's evidence deteriorate as rapidly as possible in the wilds, s-wrap would be counterproductive. But for an OCD husband whose primary concern was getting his dead wife's body out of their home and disposed of while ensuring no forensic traces of death are left either at the scene nor inside their vehicle, rate of decomp may not have been uppermost in his mind... particularly if he intended in turn to either burn her remains or send her down a toboggan into a mine... :/

arrot:

 

[PickieChickie]

(snip) Exactly. Yet while I realize a body could never be completely incinerated using any ordinary heat source under most any circumstances, I didn't think anybody was suggesting a torch would've been used directly--rather to ignite or maintain a burning fire. I think both melting ice, or cutting a grate, are also possibilities.

arrot:

I just figured out WHY he bought the torch! And I am not kidding! He bought it to make the S'Moures!

 

[kiki the parrot]

Lol pixie I suggested this jokingly (re Josh using torch to melt the marshmallows,' post #51) but of course knowing in reality he purchased it the following day Monday Dec 7th--after the camping trip.

arrot: