Wayne Millard Murder Trial - Dellen Millard Charged With Murder - #1

[ABro]

What if WM listed MB as his "next in line" after DM in his will?

He didn't. His will is a public document. Go check it out.

 

[Tealgrove]

Finally caught up.

I was very interested to hear that DM was quite unemotional at finding his father dead in bed. Man, he didn't even try to put on a show for LE.

I have had experience with people close to me dying of suicide and I can tell you that when it happens, and you realize it has happened, it is unbelievable what happens to your brain and your body.

My neighbour hanged himself and I was home when his wife and young daughter found him. The adrenaline that rushed through my body when I head the screaming and the look on my friend's face and her daughter's absolute horror and disbelief will never leave me. Shock, shaking, unable to speak, crying, and then just staring. It was horrible. Those are the kinds of emotions that take over, when someone close to you dies of suicide and you find them.

I also want to point out the terrible job that TPS did with the initial "investigation" of WM's death.

My neighbour was escorted from the house by Police to my living room. She and her daughter were not allowed back into the house. Fire, Paramedics and Police were all in attendance. Victim Services arrived to talk to my neighbour and daughter. LE were everywhere.

I was questioned about the family and what had gone on there. They questioned both wife and daughter separately.

Eventually, Melissa started asking about her dog and my heart dropped. I hadn't heard a peep from Oscar and he's a Yorkie and barks like crazy. Not a peep. Oscar was Melissa's. I went to the house and asked the Officer guarding the house to find the dog. Thankfully, he found Oscar in Melissa's bedroom. The door was closed and Oscar was on the bed. Apparently he growled at the Officer so, the Officer escorted me to the room and I grabbed the dog and brought him to Melissa.

They had the house under lock and key. Homicide Detectives arrived to survey the scene and stayed for hours. Once again, they came to talk to the neighbours. Nothing was left undone.

Once again, I see shoddy Police work by TPS. I hope the Crown has better stuff to come because so far I'm unimpressed and I KNOW DM killed his father. I haven't a doubt in my mind. His behaviour upon "finding" his father dead, speaks volumes to me. He's an out and out liar. He was LIVING in that house with all his buddies. He wasn't just there a few nights a week. Give me a break.

MOO

 

[ABro]

"Once again, I see shoddy Police work by TPS. I hope the Crown has better stuff to come because so far I'm unimpressed and I KNOW DM killed his father. I haven't a doubt in my mind. His behaviour upon "finding" his father dead, speaks volumes to me. He's an out and out liar. He was LIVING in that house with all his buddies. He wasn't just there a few nights a week. Give me a break."

Once again, the Crown are not the police. The Crown did not conduct this investigation. The Crown is prosecuting the case.

These are the first days of trial. The Crown is establishing what happened. And this is what happened.

The fact that the investigation was not A-1 has nothing to do with the Crown.

You will see the Crown's case in the next weeks of the trial.

Courts deal in facts, not what we wish the investigation had been. Right now, we are learning the facts of what happened. And there are a lot more facts to come.

 

[Kamille]

He didn't. His will is a public document. Go check it out.

I'll take your word for it. Thanks.

 

[MsSherlock]

According to the Nimmo testimony, DM arrived at the house to discover WM at 6:30 pm on the 29th. According to Paramedic Smith, the call came into 911 as a "cardiac arrest"- they arrived on the scene at 7 pm and MB was already there (must be a turbo Prius) Police Officer Lee testifies that he was told that MB called police to say that her "ex-husband" had passed away and there was blood all over the place. She was on the scene with her son DM at the time of the call. Then Constable Leonard testifies that he was responding to a radio call for a "sudden death". Nimmo also testified that he understood MB had called in to say she was at her ex's house with her son and she believed her ex had passed away.

The question I have is about the dispatch of paramedics. In this case, theres conflicting 911 reports- was it that WM was in cardiac arrest or had he passed away with blood all over the place? I think there's a bit of a difference. For DM to get there at 6:30, call MB, have her get there to check things out and call 911 and then have EMS arrive at 7 o'clock is short of amazing. I'm shocked that the paramedics after seeing WM's head covered in blood, felt it appropriate to figure WM died from a throat hemorrhage due to his alcoholism (if he looked like he was sleeping, how would blood coming out of his mouth end up all over his head?) and I'm even more shocked that other people bought into it- until the Coroner finds a gun and a head trauma.

I know it's only the end of Day 2, but IMHO, this already smacks of incompetency by LE and some bizarre "cause of death" announcements by the paramedics- all based on what DM and MB had initially told them- WM was a raging alcoholic. Can anyone can make sense of the 911 calls? I can't wait for MB to give her testimony about how it all unfolded. MOO

 

[Oreck]

I’m kind of glad that this is a judge-only trial. I think the judge would have enough experience to understand how the police and coroners work and may be able to sort through all of the confusing statements better than perhaps a jury could. I still think there is some strong evidence to come (letters perhaps) but all of these conflicting reports from EMS and the police would make me worried about a hung jury if they had had one.

Can they have a "hung judge"?

 

[Sillybilly]

For DM to get there at 6:30, call MB, have her get there to check things out and call 911 and then have EMS arrive at 7 o'clock is short of amazing.

It's a 29/30 min drive from Tinsmith to Maple Gate.

 

[Sillybilly]

No mention of DM's ex-fiancée being at the residence. Am I mis-remembering that DM, MB and the ex-fiancée were scheduled to attend an evening out that somehow got interrupted by them finding Wayne deceased ??

from:
Murder or suicide: The investigation into the death of Wayne Millard

"A source who was on the scene at the Millard family home the night police investigated the death, said that those present included Dellen Millard, his mother and Wayne’s ex-wife, Madeleine Burns, and Dellen Millard’s ex-fiancee, who cannot be named due to a publication ban."

 

[ABro]

No mention of DM's ex-fiancée being at the residence. Am I mis-remembering that DM, MB and the ex-fiancée were scheduled to attend an evening out that somehow got interrupted by them finding Wayne deceased ??

from:
Murder or suicide: The investigation into the death of Wayne Millard

"A source who was on the scene at the Millard family home the night police investigated the death, said that those present included Dellen Millard, his mother and Wayne’s ex-wife, Madeleine Burns, and Dellen Millard’s ex-fiancee, who cannot be named due to a publication ban."

Be patient.

 

[Kamille]

No mention of DM's ex-fiancée being at the residence. Am I mis-remembering that DM, MB and the ex-fiancée were scheduled to attend an evening out that somehow got interrupted by them finding Wayne deceased ??

from:
Murder or suicide: The investigation into the death of Wayne Millard

"A source who was on the scene at the Millard family home the night police investigated the death, said that those present included Dellen Millard, his mother and Wayne’s ex-wife, Madeleine Burns, and Dellen Millard’s ex-fiancee, who cannot be named due to a publication ban."

Seems like "the source" was incorrect about JS being on the scene when the first responders starting showing up. Not sure if, and at what point, she may have been at the house that evening. Apparently MB and DM were eventually taken to a police station to give statements. Is it possible that she was there but was not questioned by anyone and therefore did not make it into anyone's notes?

MOO

 

[Oreck]

The investigation started as a medical emergency.
Throat hemorrhage or cardiac arrest.
I would like to know?
What was DM's and MB's reaction when they found out that his father and her ex-husband had committed suicide.
It must have been devastating for them, Or not?
Crown should have asked LE how ripped up DM and MB were when they first found out this devastating news.

 

[ABro]

Seems like "the source" was incorrect about JS being on the scene when the first responders starting showing up. Not sure if, and at what point, she may have been at the house that evening. Apparently MB and DM were eventually taken to a police station to give statements. Is it possible that she was there but was not questioned by anyone and therefore did not make it into anyone's notes?

MOO

The source was 100% correct. This trial is two days old.

 

[huntergerrard]

Even if WM was left handed, shooting himself in the left eye doesn't make sense. The barrel of the gun is a decent length and his wrist would be at a very unnatural and uncomfortable position when pulling the trigger. If he's right handed, then it again doesn't make sense that his right arm would be tucked under his head after shooting himself.

My thoughts as well.
Plus, I wouldn't think the eye would be the typical place to shoot yourself. Maybe I watch too many movies, but don't most people shoot either at their forehead, on their temple, or in their mouth. The eye doesn't seem like a natural first choice IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

Considering only two days have passed in a trial scheduled for four weeks, indeed I suppose we can’t presume we’ve heard all the evidence.

I’m curious, is it because this is a Trial by Judge so there is no Opening Statements by the Prosecution and Defence or was that simply an option chosen by each (unless I missed it).

 

[ab-initio]

According to the Nimmo testimony, DM arrived at the house to discover WM at 6:30 pm on the 29th. According to Paramedic Smith, the call came into 911 as a "cardiac arrest"- they arrived on the scene at 7 pm and MB was already there (must be a turbo Prius) Police Officer Lee testifies that he was told that MB called police to say that her "ex-husband" had passed away and there was blood all over the place. She was on the scene with her son DM at the time of the call. Then Constable Leonard testifies that he was responding to a radio call for a "sudden death". Nimmo also testified that he understood MB had called in to say she was at her ex's house with her son and she believed her ex had passed away.

The question I have is about the dispatch of paramedics. In this case, theres conflicting 911 reports- was it that WM was in cardiac arrest or had he passed away with blood all over the place? I think there's a bit of a difference. For DM to get there at 6:30, call MB, have her get there to check things out and call 911 and then have EMS arrive at 7 o'clock is short of amazing. I'm shocked that the paramedics after seeing WM's head covered in blood, felt it appropriate to figure WM died from a throat hemorrhage due to his alcoholism (if he looked like he was sleeping, how would blood coming out of his mouth end up all over his head?) and I'm even more shocked that other people bought into it- until the Coroner finds a gun and a head trauma.

I know it's only the end of Day 2, but IMHO, this already smacks of incompetency by LE and some bizarre "cause of death" announcements by the paramedics- all based on what DM and MB had initially told them- WM was a raging alcoholic. Can anyone can make sense of the 911 calls? I can't wait for MB to give her testimony about how it all unfolded. MOO

While I can't answer all of your questions because there are unknown variables, I can give some context.

I encourage you to look at this link:
Medical Priority Dispatch System - Wikipedia

Toronto EMS dispatch uses the AMPDS system.

When the Paramedic stated "cardiac arrest" and the officer stated "sudden death" - these are catch all terms used that don't necessarily represent the actual patient condition. They're dispatched to a problem/nature and given supplementary details. The dispatch problem they are sent on must fit into one of those 36 types, and that type is what it is referred to as. To refer to an obvious death as a cardiac arrest may be a logical fallacy but in this context it makes sense.
For the medic and officer to recall the events in terminology familiar and suited to their profession also makes sense. Terms that mean one thing to them and quite another to a layperson.
I really do think that's all that's going on insofar as that goes.

Without knowing Toronto EMS' local response plans, it's likely they were dispatched on a 9 Echo priority.

The information is only as good as the caller. That said, if their caller (MB) was not on scene and simply said my ex is dead and there's lots of blood ... they go in expecting a workable body, perhaps. If their caller (DM) isn't forthcoming at all -- which I reckon he wasn't -- they have even less to go on. It appears EMS arrived and entered before PD. Had they been informed of the gun on scene, PD response would have (probably) been faster and EMS may not have entered a potentially hazardous scene ahead of them.

I surmise very strongly that there was no mention of the gun or GSW in the 911 call because EMS stated there was no initial sign of injury on arrival. While suicides are unfortunately common EMS calls, those involving guns are less-so and due to the continued hazard of the mechanism PD response is often stepped up.
I also feel very strongly that EMS/PD had no knowledge walking into this scene that it was a suicide. Because neither of their callers told them.
I also feel like the medics had no knowledge of a gun on scene or a potential suicide by gun before they were released from the scene by police. They saw an obviously deceased person and initiated no lifesaving protocols. It is really not their job to investigate further than that. The police? Different story.
When the police realized, they tried to call EMS back to the scene but it sounds like they were already tied up on another call for service, which is not unusual, either.

I suspect there wasn't much information given by either caller which likely prompted a high priority response in accordance with their local policies as prioritized by AMPDS.

I'm basing this assessment strictly on the limited/incomplete information available regarding the timeline of events and the emergency calls for service juxtaposed my knowledge of the emergency services and Toronto's dispatch priority system.

I hope that helped more than confused!

 

[huntergerrard]

You know... at first when I read your post, I was going to hit 'reply' to say - think about it as if it were yourself, and how would you be feeling *then*, if 3 years after the fact, a witness suddenly comes up with a certain piece of information which happened on the night OF, which could possibly make you look guilty.

But in this particular case, my first thoughts are not right, because at the time when JC was giving her statements, she had NO IDEA that WM's death was being considered as other than she had already been told, a suicide, AND she had NO IDEA that in the event it WAS something else, that a possible perp would be his own SON.

So in *THIS* case, dang right it should be allowed! I feel so far like the Crown is not assertive or forceful enough. Why not question the officers as to what other possible causes of WM's death they considered at the scene, or why they did not collect any samples whatsoever from the scene, to ensure a proper investigation on behalf of the deceased, considering there was no suicide note. Seems pretty basic. Also, perhaps enquire from the officers how much their opinion/perspective was influenced by being told repeatedly at the scene that the deceased had an alcohol problem?

I'd like to know how often does this happen where an individual dies and perhaps family members wish authorities to believe it was suicide, and have tales, perhaps true tales, about the deceased's vices? The worst part is that when we're talking about suicides, it is almost never in the news... so therefore, in addition to whatever is NOT done to verify things at the scene, others, who may potentially have had information of importance, are completely left in the dark, because they don't even necessarily know about the death in the first place, until possibly much later. Or they find out about the death, but like in *this* case, they are told the death was due to a medical condition, as opposed to the actual cause, which was a gunshot wound! jmo

Do we know if WM was already cremated by the time JC found out (through email) of WM's death? It took her a while before she finally had correspondence with DM.

 

[Sillybilly]

Be patient.

Thanks ABro. Figured that might be the case.

 

[MsSherlock]

The source was 100% correct. This trial is two days old.

You're so correct, but I have to say that the DM/MB combo may be more than I can handle! The TB and LB trial didn't start off like a Keystone Cop movie. The first 2 days in this trial have me visualizing MB speeding over to Maple Gate in her Prius- bottle of wine in one hand and a box of Kleenex in the other, sobbing hysterically as she calls 911. DM and MB greeting EMS and LE as they arrive. Paramedics and cops all looking at a corpse saying "yeh, he's dead- heavy drinker and obviously his throat started to hemorrhage", a Coroner yanking a bag with a gun in it out from between the bed and nightstand, and a business as usual DM and hysterical MB running through the house with LE looking for more guns. And, oh, I can't forget Pedo- he's out in DM's car. Only day 2 of a 1 month murder trial and MB is definitely going to be on the stand? If this was the first chapter in a book, I'd be thinking the writer was being a tad bit creative.

 

[huntergerrard]

Finally caught up.

I was very interested to hear that DM was quite unemotional at finding his father dead in bed. Man, he didn't even try to put on a show for LE.

I have had experience with people close to me dying of suicide and I can tell you that when it happens, and you realize it has happened, it is unbelievable what happens to your brain and your body.

My neighbour hanged himself and I was home when his wife and young daughter found him. The adrenaline that rushed through my body when I head the screaming and the look on my friend's face and her daughter's absolute horror and disbelief will never leave me. Shock, shaking, unable to speak, crying, and then just staring. It was horrible. Those are the kinds of emotions that take over, when someone close to you dies of suicide and you find them.

I also want to point out the terrible job that TPS did with the initial "investigation" of WM's death.

My neighbour was escorted from the house by Police to my living room. She and her daughter were not allowed back into the house. Fire, Paramedics and Police were all in attendance. Victim Services arrived to talk to my neighbour and daughter. LE were everywhere.

I was questioned about the family and what had gone on there. They questioned both wife and daughter separately.

Eventually, Melissa started asking about her dog and my heart dropped. I hadn't heard a peep from Oscar and he's a Yorkie and barks like crazy. Not a peep. Oscar was Melissa's. I went to the house and asked the Officer guarding the house to find the dog. Thankfully, he found Oscar in Melissa's bedroom. The door was closed and Oscar was on the bed. Apparently he growled at the Officer so, the Officer escorted me to the room and I grabbed the dog and brought him to Melissa.

They had the house under lock and key. Homicide Detectives arrived to survey the scene and stayed for hours. Once again, they came to talk to the neighbours. Nothing was left undone.

Once again, I see shoddy Police work by TPS. I hope the Crown has better stuff to come because so far I'm unimpressed and I KNOW DM killed his father. I haven't a doubt in my mind. His behaviour upon "finding" his father dead, speaks volumes to me. He's an out and out liar. He was LIVING in that house with all his buddies. He wasn't just there a few nights a week. Give me a break.

MOO

BBM I believe DM was living there, too, at least most of the time.

Also, Sgt. Nimmo testified to pot in the basement, and a strong odour of marijuana. So, did DM smoke a joint before he called MB and the paramedics arrived, or he's obviously been in that house within the last few days unlike what he's said to first responders/police.

 

[Kamille]

The source was 100% correct. This trial is two days old.

The source claims she was one of the people initially questioned. I guess it wasn't by the first officer on the scene. He only questioned DM and MB and made no mention that she was even there. We'll wait for more testimony then.

A source who was on the scene at the Millard family home the night police investigated the death, said that those present included Dellen Millard, his mother and Wayne’s ex-wife, Madeleine Burns, and Dellen Millard’s ex-fiancee, who cannot be named due to a publication ban. As far as I can tell, these are the only people police initially questioned about Wayne Millard’s death.

Murder or suicide: The investigation into the death of Wayne Millard