I am sure that it feels like an attack when you are on the other side of the fence but, what we do here is to explore ALL possibilities, to leave no stone unturned and most important of all, our statements are our OPINIONS.
Websleuths Is Being Accused....
- Thread starter Tricia
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I am sure that it feels like an attack when you are on the other side of the fence but, what we do here is to explore ALL possibilities, to leave no stone unturned and most important of all, our statements are our OPINIONS.
close_enough
Inactive
i never paid any attention to posts about this Rev...i scrolled right past them...heck, i didn't even look at his blog until now....i simply never found anything of interest regarding him, & this case....his son might be Caylee's Daddy, is all i know....
i sure hope you don't have to get involved in a lawsuit, Tricia...he wouldn't win, IMO, but i'm sure you have better things to do....good grief!!....bless you!
i sure hope you don't have to get involved in a lawsuit, Tricia...he wouldn't win, IMO, but i'm sure you have better things to do....good grief!!....bless you!
Blink34
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Regardless of the state the finding of fact burden must be that a person or persons "..intentionally via written or spoken word.." mis-stated a verifiable fact about said person or party..
An opinion is not any of those, although several are based on Mr. Grund's own site as well as his son's various postings. The reality is anyone can sue anyone for almost anything, however, they would need to be prepared to provide evidence supporting such claim as to mistatements of facts and I feel confident that Mr. Grund and any of his associates have no interest in opening that CAN..
On the other hand, if Mr. Grund is making an accusation as it appears on his site that someone from here hacked into his wife's myspace, that would BE A verifiable fact that might subject Mr. Grund to a lawsuit of his own.
Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion on this matter and should not be construed as professional legal advice. Those seeking legal advice regarding any matter, should only do so through the attorney that has been retained for same.
I for one am curious as to how he defends the Anthony family on his site, but condems Mrs. Anthony and Casey here.
gypsiechavi
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Hello all. I know I'm new to posting in this discussion, but I was just so disgusted last night with this case I felt compelled to post.
Last night as I was lying in bed about to fall asleep I kept running the same thought over in my head.
There is no shame.
No one today seems to have any shame or pride. Nothing is private. It used to be only your close friends and family knew who you were as a person and could make judgment calls on your life. It used to be that if you acted out or did something questionable, they called you on it and you were held accountable by your own shame. With sites like myspace and facebook, blogs and social networking in general I see young people and some older folks posting the most ridiculously private and shameful things as if they were proud of them.
Thankfully not everyone uses these sites to bloat their egos by sharing with the entire world how they partied their a$$es off all weekend, did drugs, slept with multiple people, etc. But many in this younger generation do just this. Oh and there are lot's of photo's and video's posted to back up their claims of coolness.
I myself am 38 years old. I have three children. I was part of the "latch key" generation. My parents could've cared less about where I was, as long as I was home before the street lights came on. And if I were caught doing something bad I was held accountable. No if's and's or but's about it. I knew there would be consequences. And if I did do something crazy or silly or kid-like, then it was a SECRET. Something which usually was later found out by the people who knew me (Mom, Dad, etc) and I was once again held accountable. I had learned SHAME and PRIDE through good choices. I had developed that little voice that guides my actions. I had a conscience.
Now, hang with me here for a second. There are a few things in the above equation that are responsible for the learning of shame and pride in good choices and it shaped my behavior.
First of all, fear. I was fearful of the consequences of my actions or poor choices. Secondly, my group of friends (as we had no internet and had to go outside to seek friendships) was smaller. I was less likely to meet people who didn't really care about me and encouraged me to make poor choices. Oh there were those people around but not 500 of them on myspace egging me on. Instead I had one or two best friends (not BFF's but REAL friends) that always pulled me back to reality. I also had Grandparents who guided me in the absence of my mother and step-father. They EXPECTED something more of me than to run around like a lunatic doing whatever I wanted. And then I also had the sense of community that kept me grounded knowing that I would be the talk of the town. Like the time two friends and I drove my mothers car down the street and got caught. People who knew us, saw us and told my mother without fear my mother would turn things around on them. She would actually direct her frustration where it belonged.....with me. Scolding me and teaching me a lesson about lying, stealing and respect.
Now I see these kids all over these social networking sites bragging about things I would've been embarrassed of then and now. They are "best friends" egging one another on, encouraging shameful behavior. There is no respect for one's self or respect for others. There is bullying and promiscuity, false pride and disrespect. There is no real and true parental presence in their lives.
For example, my niece. She has a myspace page and has had this page since she was 12 years old. Her mother knows but either doesn't understand or doesn't care. I became "friends" with her on her page. One day I noticed she posted pictures of herself that were very questionable, as well as pictures and video of the front of her home, the school and grade she was in, etc. Things a pedophile could see and use to hurt her. First thing I did was call her mother to warn her. And guess what happened? I was screamed at on the phone! I think her mother felt embarrassed and "bothered" by it instead of concerned and appreciative of the information. I did not in any way approach her with venom or in order to shame her parenting skills. I was genuinely concerned for this child and the direction in which she was headed. Just like when I was a kid and called out for "borrowing" my mothers car and my neighbor reported to my mother my activities. Except like I said earlier, my mother held ME accountable and not my accuser. After all, they were my actions. I had to own them.
And so after turning this over in my head and relating it to this case I have an opinion of my own. And indeed part of that opinion is based on things I have read on this family's myspace pages they felt the need to make public just as if we knew one another personally and lived in the same town. I guess we could call that town the internet.
I believe this Casey girl (dare I call her a woman) cares nothing about anyone but herself. She does not see past her own nose. She is disconnected with the real world. Her family, as it appears to me, cannot handle her. There is/was no accountability or discipline. There is no shame. I am fairly sure Casey could pretty much do whatever she wanted without any real consequences because either her parents just threw their hands up and she had plenty of party friends encouraging her to continue with her shameful behavior, or she is just plain crazy. Either way someone should have stepped in long ago and rescued that child from a mother like that. After all, it is obvious in this little town we call the internet that she did not respect herself or others. She lies. She steals. She is promiscuous. She is irresponsible. In any town in the United States she would be viewed as the girl you don't bring home to your mother. Of course that would have been a generation ago..........
And so I have one thing to say to the family, to Casey, to the father or boyfriend and his family. SHAME ON YOU. Shame on you for not being engaged in your daughters life enough to care about her and her child. To not care enough to do something before any of this happened. To not care enough to do something now but point fingers at everyone but yourself. Shame on you for attacking and blaming others who just call it like they see it. After all, if you had cared long before this, maybe it would have never happened and no one would even know your name.
Last night as I was lying in bed about to fall asleep I kept running the same thought over in my head.
There is no shame.
No one today seems to have any shame or pride. Nothing is private. It used to be only your close friends and family knew who you were as a person and could make judgment calls on your life. It used to be that if you acted out or did something questionable, they called you on it and you were held accountable by your own shame. With sites like myspace and facebook, blogs and social networking in general I see young people and some older folks posting the most ridiculously private and shameful things as if they were proud of them.
Thankfully not everyone uses these sites to bloat their egos by sharing with the entire world how they partied their a$$es off all weekend, did drugs, slept with multiple people, etc. But many in this younger generation do just this. Oh and there are lot's of photo's and video's posted to back up their claims of coolness.
I myself am 38 years old. I have three children. I was part of the "latch key" generation. My parents could've cared less about where I was, as long as I was home before the street lights came on. And if I were caught doing something bad I was held accountable. No if's and's or but's about it. I knew there would be consequences. And if I did do something crazy or silly or kid-like, then it was a SECRET. Something which usually was later found out by the people who knew me (Mom, Dad, etc) and I was once again held accountable. I had learned SHAME and PRIDE through good choices. I had developed that little voice that guides my actions. I had a conscience.
Now, hang with me here for a second. There are a few things in the above equation that are responsible for the learning of shame and pride in good choices and it shaped my behavior.
First of all, fear. I was fearful of the consequences of my actions or poor choices. Secondly, my group of friends (as we had no internet and had to go outside to seek friendships) was smaller. I was less likely to meet people who didn't really care about me and encouraged me to make poor choices. Oh there were those people around but not 500 of them on myspace egging me on. Instead I had one or two best friends (not BFF's but REAL friends) that always pulled me back to reality. I also had Grandparents who guided me in the absence of my mother and step-father. They EXPECTED something more of me than to run around like a lunatic doing whatever I wanted. And then I also had the sense of community that kept me grounded knowing that I would be the talk of the town. Like the time two friends and I drove my mothers car down the street and got caught. People who knew us, saw us and told my mother without fear my mother would turn things around on them. She would actually direct her frustration where it belonged.....with me. Scolding me and teaching me a lesson about lying, stealing and respect.
Now I see these kids all over these social networking sites bragging about things I would've been embarrassed of then and now. They are "best friends" egging one another on, encouraging shameful behavior. There is no respect for one's self or respect for others. There is bullying and promiscuity, false pride and disrespect. There is no real and true parental presence in their lives.
For example, my niece. She has a myspace page and has had this page since she was 12 years old. Her mother knows but either doesn't understand or doesn't care. I became "friends" with her on her page. One day I noticed she posted pictures of herself that were very questionable, as well as pictures and video of the front of her home, the school and grade she was in, etc. Things a pedophile could see and use to hurt her. First thing I did was call her mother to warn her. And guess what happened? I was screamed at on the phone! I think her mother felt embarrassed and "bothered" by it instead of concerned and appreciative of the information. I did not in any way approach her with venom or in order to shame her parenting skills. I was genuinely concerned for this child and the direction in which she was headed. Just like when I was a kid and called out for "borrowing" my mothers car and my neighbor reported to my mother my activities. Except like I said earlier, my mother held ME accountable and not my accuser. After all, they were my actions. I had to own them.
And so after turning this over in my head and relating it to this case I have an opinion of my own. And indeed part of that opinion is based on things I have read on this family's myspace pages they felt the need to make public just as if we knew one another personally and lived in the same town. I guess we could call that town the internet.
I believe this Casey girl (dare I call her a woman) cares nothing about anyone but herself. She does not see past her own nose. She is disconnected with the real world. Her family, as it appears to me, cannot handle her. There is/was no accountability or discipline. There is no shame. I am fairly sure Casey could pretty much do whatever she wanted without any real consequences because either her parents just threw their hands up and she had plenty of party friends encouraging her to continue with her shameful behavior, or she is just plain crazy. Either way someone should have stepped in long ago and rescued that child from a mother like that. After all, it is obvious in this little town we call the internet that she did not respect herself or others. She lies. She steals. She is promiscuous. She is irresponsible. In any town in the United States she would be viewed as the girl you don't bring home to your mother. Of course that would have been a generation ago..........
And so I have one thing to say to the family, to Casey, to the father or boyfriend and his family. SHAME ON YOU. Shame on you for not being engaged in your daughters life enough to care about her and her child. To not care enough to do something before any of this happened. To not care enough to do something now but point fingers at everyone but yourself. Shame on you for attacking and blaming others who just call it like they see it. After all, if you had cared long before this, maybe it would have never happened and no one would even know your name.
I am fairly new to WS and must say I find these boards informative. The people here seem to truly care about the missing, the abused, the victims. In this country we can speak our thoughts without being threatened. That is what is so great about this country..we have these boards where we can express our thoughts and our opinions and our sadness and ever so often a happy note. The people here can SHARE. I for one went onto his myspace, saw what it was and got off as quick as I could. It scared the heck out of me and I am 60 yrs old. I am pretty much confined to my house and sometimes to my bed due to medical problems so I have pretty much read all comments. I have not heard any statements that would be cause for concern for WS. Some of us do not care for his myspace so we can TURN it off. He does not have to read WS, he can turn it off. That is called freedom. He does appear strange looking on his site. I CAN SAY THAT....I, along with many many others THANK WS for being her for us. WE ALL STAND BESIDE YOU TRICE. Thanks for all your caring and all you do for all.
Tricia..I am sorry for my ranting. I know you were asking for certain things and not a debate. It hurts me so bad when someone like this man wants alittle attention (his 5 min of fame) and trys to bring down something like WS down. He should go on NG and complain his heart out. Keep up the good work..we are here for you.
Elley Mae
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Hi Tricia..I know that I brought Jesse up more than once,He was known about IIRC early on,and was questioned by LE IIRC early on. On July 22 he shows up (the day of the bail hearing for Casey) at the court house/or police station to give a statement that he had spoken to Casey on June 24th or 25th and had heard Caylee in the background. Well I then questioned why he had not told LE that the first he had spoke to them. I saw his Dad's Myspace and I have no comment,but did agree with what was being said.
He's an exhibition on displaced anger.
Tricia,
It's recommended these days to have a protocol in place should one's child disappear. Obviously, I wouldn't want anything to happen to my grandchildren but were somthing to- your site, Websleuths, is on my list of 'immediate notifications'. You have members nationwide who would immediately go into action with all their heart and soul. Certainly I wouldn't worry about a little negativeness when the positiveness of this site is so obvious.
I believe there are posts about a trucking company in Georgia spreading the word to look for Caylee to it's drivers. Mr. Grund didn't see the good in this?
Again I write that Cindy Anthony said something along the lines of "call me a B!!!!, just keep looking for Caylee".
Thank you for your site and the members for their efforts.
Tricia,
It's recommended these days to have a protocol in place should one's child disappear. Obviously, I wouldn't want anything to happen to my grandchildren but were somthing to- your site, Websleuths, is on my list of 'immediate notifications'. You have members nationwide who would immediately go into action with all their heart and soul. Certainly I wouldn't worry about a little negativeness when the positiveness of this site is so obvious.
I believe there are posts about a trucking company in Georgia spreading the word to look for Caylee to it's drivers. Mr. Grund didn't see the good in this?
Again I write that Cindy Anthony said something along the lines of "call me a B!!!!, just keep looking for Caylee".
Thank you for your site and the members for their efforts.
DeltaDawn
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Unbeleivable..Caylee is missing, a child Mr Grund and his family seem to know well and care about............and he is goggling his name and his son's name on the interent and then thinking of suing people? Wow, I am surprised he isn't more concerned with finding Caylee and thinking anyone that comes under scrutiny right now, well so be it, if it helps to bring this sweet little girl home.
As always my signature line is Just My Humble Opinion.
As always my signature line is Just My Humble Opinion.
OneLostGrl
I'm going against the grain- I'm going sane
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Shortened for space but I wanted to say Excellent post! Just excellent and so friggin' true!
My own mother was the type you describe above, my entire life she made excuses for my behavior and I was never held accountable for my actions no matter what I did. Well, that is.. until I became an adult and mommy couldnt keep me out of trouble anymore.
Anyway, I don't want to hijack, I just wanted to respond to your post! :clap::clap:
saqqara
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Good morning everyone. I have two comments here, both in defence of this site and Mr. Grund and then a reminder for all.
I am a 38 year old mother of two, and a professional. I also listen to heavy metal music and have a very active lifestyle every second weekend when I don't have my kids. I have "questionable" friends. Mostly because my qualities for people have nothing to do with status or appearance or age. I like real people who are self-aware.
This leads to often a very amusing comments by my professional colleagues, my children and my fabulous and deeply christian ex in-laws. But they know me. They know I am good person, hard worker AND frankly I am a fabulous mother. They don't judge what I do, or what it looks like I am into.
Often I am bothered when people assume I am either a bad parent, into drugs or "scattered brained" because of my choice of music or because I go out every second weekend. But I have learned to shrug it off. I know, and the people that matter know, that no matter the appearance. I am a GOOD, KIND, HONEST person. Think what you will.
To Mr. Grund, if you are an odd person or someone others don't understand. .. I'm sorry you were hurt by people's comments. But you shouldn't be and don't worry - if you are a strong and upright individual opinions of strangers do not matter. Keep look for Caylee.
BUT if something said about you or your family or the myspace pages really bothered you, perhaps you need to think about the things you post. . . perhaps it bothers you because you arer not comfortable with that image. Just a thought, if that's not the case. Don't change. Be you.
To the people of this site. If you are here for the right reasons and all you want is to toss out ideas to try and assist LE and others to find this beautiful girl. Don't worry keep doing what you are doing.
BUT . . . if you were ashamed or second guessed what you said about Mr. Grund or others. Remember the lesson and pause before your next opinion is stated and perhaps make sure the language is less acrimonious. But don't stop posting and leave. You are here for the right reasons.
I am a 38 year old mother of two, and a professional. I also listen to heavy metal music and have a very active lifestyle every second weekend when I don't have my kids. I have "questionable" friends. Mostly because my qualities for people have nothing to do with status or appearance or age. I like real people who are self-aware.
This leads to often a very amusing comments by my professional colleagues, my children and my fabulous and deeply christian ex in-laws. But they know me. They know I am good person, hard worker AND frankly I am a fabulous mother. They don't judge what I do, or what it looks like I am into.
Often I am bothered when people assume I am either a bad parent, into drugs or "scattered brained" because of my choice of music or because I go out every second weekend. But I have learned to shrug it off. I know, and the people that matter know, that no matter the appearance. I am a GOOD, KIND, HONEST person. Think what you will.
To Mr. Grund, if you are an odd person or someone others don't understand. .. I'm sorry you were hurt by people's comments. But you shouldn't be and don't worry - if you are a strong and upright individual opinions of strangers do not matter. Keep look for Caylee.
BUT if something said about you or your family or the myspace pages really bothered you, perhaps you need to think about the things you post. . . perhaps it bothers you because you arer not comfortable with that image. Just a thought, if that's not the case. Don't change. Be you.
To the people of this site. If you are here for the right reasons and all you want is to toss out ideas to try and assist LE and others to find this beautiful girl. Don't worry keep doing what you are doing.
BUT . . . if you were ashamed or second guessed what you said about Mr. Grund or others. Remember the lesson and pause before your next opinion is stated and perhaps make sure the language is less acrimonious. But don't stop posting and leave. You are here for the right reasons.
my2cents
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I completely agree. There has not been anything (that I have read that) that has stated that he was involved in anyway. If there is nothing with respect to intentional statements, then he is not going to be able to prove the element of malice. He hasn't got a leg to stand on with this. No atty in their right mind would even take this case, imo. Regardless if the burden is on him or not, these statements do not merit a claim in tort. A judge would toss this out.
IN MY OPINION this guy is a raving loon just like the rest of the tools involved. And he is STILL commenting on his own blog today about what we are commenting on!
Hi Tricia,
I don't think you need to worry about the good Rev. Grund suing you or anyone since apparently God has told him not to.
In my unprofessional (I'm not a lawyer) opinion the posts he quoted, which I assume are the ones he has issues with, are clearly opinion.
Personally I think he's just using the situation to grandstand for his friends and followers. If he was truly concerned with Caylee and how the family is coping, he'd be out helping them and not on the computer looking for a fight.
Openmyeyes
On the road to Utopia
Tricia;
As a 5 year + member I came to WS looking for information about a very prominent case and what I found was a phenominal group of people that have huge hearts, keen thinking ability and the desire to share information AND opinions. I was directed to this site from another very high profile forum and found the integrity of the moderators and members to be the highest on the internet.
In the past news of these cases were so one dimensional. One would read about it in the papers, or perhaps hear about it on tv. Now we can keep up with them in real time.
Thanks to the internet we can get answers to questions, we can learn specifics, and we can bare our souls, if we choose. What the Rev. Grund needs to realize is that what we are speculating is probably what his neighbors and acquaintances are speculating, as well, only they might be afraid to express it.
This is a perplexing and heart-wrenching case. Too many of the immediate and visible
people at the center of this have publicly tried divert attention from themselves and areas where an investigation would naturally go. Why? We are discussing the why's and we can discuss the why's.
This site has helped in cases in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. I am proud to be a member of it.
OME
As a 5 year + member I came to WS looking for information about a very prominent case and what I found was a phenominal group of people that have huge hearts, keen thinking ability and the desire to share information AND opinions. I was directed to this site from another very high profile forum and found the integrity of the moderators and members to be the highest on the internet.
In the past news of these cases were so one dimensional. One would read about it in the papers, or perhaps hear about it on tv. Now we can keep up with them in real time.
Thanks to the internet we can get answers to questions, we can learn specifics, and we can bare our souls, if we choose. What the Rev. Grund needs to realize is that what we are speculating is probably what his neighbors and acquaintances are speculating, as well, only they might be afraid to express it.
This is a perplexing and heart-wrenching case. Too many of the immediate and visible
people at the center of this have publicly tried divert attention from themselves and areas where an investigation would naturally go. Why? We are discussing the why's and we can discuss the why's.
This site has helped in cases in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. I am proud to be a member of it.
OME
my2cents
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Quote:
"I have to be honest and admit I went before the Lord about dealing with this either in lawsuits or some other "form" of justice had He gave me a choice. I could do it my way or He could do it His. I chose His and it's fair to tell you that EVERY HIDDEN THING is about to revealed in the lives of those who have thrown stones during this time."
IN MY OPINION ONLY, I bet he is making Kool-aid for his following as we speak. :crazy:
"I have to be honest and admit I went before the Lord about dealing with this either in lawsuits or some other "form" of justice had He gave me a choice. I could do it my way or He could do it His. I chose His and it's fair to tell you that EVERY HIDDEN THING is about to revealed in the lives of those who have thrown stones during this time."
IN MY OPINION ONLY, I bet he is making Kool-aid for his following as we speak. :crazy:
songline
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Tricia;
I am not sure, but something is telling me he is in denial about who and what his son may be about. I do not see any reason for him to get so ruffled unless he is worried about his son.
I did not have time to follow this story, but did read the link you sent us to: it seems that he got into it not only because he knows the little girl but also because his son has something to do with this case.
Sometimes it is very hard for a parent to deal and cope: What is easier to do is blame, point fingers, and create a diversion;
I RECOMMEND THAT THAT THREAD BE combed and cleaned of all attacks. (but they must have a copy already)
a sticky go on that thread that tell posters that no blame or attack is acceptable without bringing evidence. They may need money and you may be a trget for it.
GreenEyedGirl
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:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:VERY well said!!! I was raised the same way-the consequences of my actions were my problem and still are to this day.
Leviosa
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Bravo, braavvooo! Bravo! [huge whistling crowd in the background!]
If you don't mind I have a few comments based on the magnificent post above. Of the first part, your writing skills are second to none. The reason I state this is I am a writer and it is a difficult task to try and 'say the way things were' let alone to write about those issues and bring real meaning to the words. With me? (Sorry, it's hard to 'say' in words what you've done so eloquently in written forma very difficult task!)
I totally agree with your assessment vis-a-vie the Anthony family and the inconsequential behavior demonstrated by Casey; however, something deep in my heart feels that if Caylee wasn't under the direct care of Cindy for the first two years of her life, then Casey would have been put on the street far earlier.
People seem to feel as though it was Casey's decision to leave the Anthony's dwelling. I don't feel this way at all. I feel that, 'that point' had come to Cindy and unfortunately Caylee was the leverage used to manipulate her. (Example: "DRAMMAA!") Furthermore, I feel Casey has manipulated everything and everybody throughout her life and now she may be in a situation where 'one meets those who are a little smarter, little wiser, and a lot more experienced,' hence, unable to manipulate LE.
Nonetheless as far as this 'Reverend' is concerned, as well as all of the Anthony's, and anyone who ever came into contact with Caseylet's just sayOrlando, should be grateful to this invaluable resource and come bearing gifts rather than their own 'Hidden Agenda.'
More on the "Hidden Agenda" later
Lev
If you don't mind I have a few comments based on the magnificent post above. Of the first part, your writing skills are second to none. The reason I state this is I am a writer and it is a difficult task to try and 'say the way things were' let alone to write about those issues and bring real meaning to the words. With me? (Sorry, it's hard to 'say' in words what you've done so eloquently in written forma very difficult task!)
I totally agree with your assessment vis-a-vie the Anthony family and the inconsequential behavior demonstrated by Casey; however, something deep in my heart feels that if Caylee wasn't under the direct care of Cindy for the first two years of her life, then Casey would have been put on the street far earlier.
People seem to feel as though it was Casey's decision to leave the Anthony's dwelling. I don't feel this way at all. I feel that, 'that point' had come to Cindy and unfortunately Caylee was the leverage used to manipulate her. (Example: "DRAMMAA!") Furthermore, I feel Casey has manipulated everything and everybody throughout her life and now she may be in a situation where 'one meets those who are a little smarter, little wiser, and a lot more experienced,' hence, unable to manipulate LE.
Nonetheless as far as this 'Reverend' is concerned, as well as all of the Anthony's, and anyone who ever came into contact with Caseylet's just sayOrlando, should be grateful to this invaluable resource and come bearing gifts rather than their own 'Hidden Agenda.'
More on the "Hidden Agenda" later
Lev
LinasK
Verified insider- Mark Dribin case
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Gypsy, this wins post of the day in my book! Excellent post that says it all about personal responsibility!:clap::clap::clap:
- Status