weekend discussion thread: 4/14-16/2012

[Hello_Kitty]

RaffertyLFP: Court is done for day - 8 witnesses Resumes on Tuesday with more Mt. Forest

Im guessing that these 8 may have the MF connection, putting MR in the area.JMO To have a whole chapter set up for this area, they really have not provided too much info....there has to be more than just the landscaping job as a connection to the area IMO

Perhaps the next witnesses were the contractors who worked with MR. Perhaps they had their lunch hour at the scene.

 

[snoofer]

The best scenario for being so rude being on the phone alot whilst he was dating and telling his dates he was a contractor or dance instructor taking calls/texting would be that he was actually dealing drugs and people were texting him to see if he had any. Someone who would have alot of contacts for drugs would be getting bombarded by calls absolutely all the time IMO.

and we do not know if he is involved in other sorts of activities either JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

<rsbm>

I'm pretty sure that type of coat has a satin type of lining. Usually when you cover something with a coat, you cover with the lining toward the item. In that case, i would think that not as much DNA would adhere upward to a slippery surface (compared to the woolen exterior), and that a good shake of coat would remove most, if not all, of what might have clung to the inside.

JMO

I respectfully beg to differ, Billy. Maybe hair would have come off easily, but if TLM is to be believed, there should have been DNA from saliva, tears, and nose secretions. Even if Tori didn't cry, I doubt that minute particles of saliva could have escaped being deposited after such a long time.

I believe we've already had a post or two about how difficult it is to completely remove DNA. Also, had the coat been dry cleaned, there would have been evidence of dry cleaning fluid found in the lab exams and nothing was raised in testimony to indicate this.

JMO

 

[gardenia]

thanks flossie for your post ...

from what i read, it sounds like CM was upset with TM for not agreeing to breed their dogs, and perhaps so upset that TM didn't go back to CM's house again. is it possible that TLM was privy to either this discussion or the grudge her mother felt towards TM?

 

[antiquegirl]

RaffertyLFP: Court is done for day - 8 witnesses Resumes on Tuesday with more Mt. Forest

Im guessing that these 8 may have the MF connection, putting MR in the area.JMO To have a whole chapter set up for this area, they really have not provided too much info....there has to be more than just the landscaping job as a connection to the area IMO

Chapter 8. Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

Chapter 9. Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8.

So, did they reverse the above two chapters then? Because yesterday's testimony sure sounded like Chapter 9 to me. :waitasec:

 

[snoofer]

anything for a "piece" I guess....I don't call that misrepresentation...that's too big of a word for MR to know..... I would call that just plain lies to suit the situation....who knows...maybe he was constipated a lot and thought he had something major wrong with him.... still doesn't make him a murderer or rapist...I need more than that to convince me...:moo:

with the amount of narcotics he was taking IMO he would have been very very constipated all the time and probably felt like he had colon cancer JMO

 

[snoofer]

thanks flossie for your post ...

from what i read, it sounds like CM was upset with TM for not agreeing to breed their dogs, and perhaps so upset that TM didn't go back to CM's house again. is it possible that TLM was privy to either this discussion or the grudge her mother felt towards TM?

I think there is alot CM could tell us.:moo:

 

[Jezbel]

Ok so another thought on the laneway and how he came to find it.

When I was younger there wasn't a whole lot to do in our town and i hung out with a lot of what we call boy racers lol, I also had my little kitted out car as did some of my female friends. Anyways we would go driving around a lot, all kinds of places, through the country side, along the cliffs, old closed down mental hospitals etc. If we came across small laneways we would often drive down them and see what was there, we found all kinds of secluded places. We would always drive the little back roads, more twisty and fun lol. Since he did a lot of driving around that area I think it's highly possible that's how he found it and ended up taking Tori there.

JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

when Tara testified: She and her boyfriend James Goris bought their OxyContin a few times from a woman named Carol McClintic a couple of months before Tori was killed, McDonald said. They went to her house twice -- one time her 18-year-old daughter Terri-Lynne was leaving the house as McDonald and Goris arrived, and a second time Terri-Lynne McClintic returned home while McDonald and Goris were there, she said.

The McClintics had two shih tzu dogs and McDonald had one, so they were discussing breeding them, court heard. She and her boyfriend were invited further into a bedroom in the dilapidated home and sat on the edge of a futon mattress, the only thing resembling furniture in the room, McDonald said.

"We sat on the edge and we started discussing the dogs and Terri-Lynne came in," McDonald said. "She (had gone) to go and use a payphone. She gave her mom a message then sat down. She was...very, very under the influence and I'm not sure if she had even noticed we were there that day."

Court was shown two items that were found in a bedroom in the McClintic house with McDonald's phone number on it -- one that McDonald said was in her writing, the other was not.

McDonald decided she didn't want to breed her dog with McClintics', and though Carol McClintic was upset, Goris continued to buy OxyContin from her. McDonald didn't go back to the McClintic house after that.

Tori had never met McClintic, but McDonald said she might have discussed the dog breeding at home in front of Tori and her brother Daryn. As of March 17 she will have been clean of both OxyContin and methadone for six months, she added.

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120307/030712_stafford_trial?hub=CP24Home

this is a tweet, if not allowed I apologize and please delete: Derstine asks McClintic about Rafferty's knowledge of the area around Oliver Stephens Public School and Tori Stafford. She says that to her knowledge Rafferty did not know Tara McDonald, James Goris or Tori Stafford and lived on the other end of Woodstock. It was McClintic who often walked in the area.
by Jon Hembrey edited by CBC News 3/23/2012 2:34:55 PM March 23 at 7:34 AM

If TLM never met Tory, how did she know that she was Tara's daughter? Did she stalk Tara? If she did she more than likely would know how Tory got home from school and Tory normally did not not walk home alone so how would TLM know that on that day she would be on her own.

The same applies to MTR, and while he went to the same bar as Tara, I highly doubt Tory ever went to Good Time Charlie's with her mom.

 

[Flossie JMO]

SUSPECT ACTED OUT OF REVENGE: TORI'S MOM
Charles Lewis and Adrian Humphreys, National Post
Published: Saturday, May 23, 2009


Ms. McDonald confirmed that she and her boyfriend, James Goris, had suspicions about Ms. McClintic's involvement early in the investigation and told police.

She said Ms. McClintic's mother confirmed her daughter knew Tori before she went missing. "At that time Terri-Lynne's mom said, 'Oh, well, she knew who Victoria was' and she said she had seen Victoria walking her dog. Now, I don't know if that meant she had seen Victoria walking our dog or if that meant that she had seen Victoria while out walking their dogs. She did make it clear that Terri-Lynne knew who Victoria was," she said.

Ms. McDonald said she did not know Mr. Rafferty.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1622098&p=2

 

[Flossie JMO]

If TLM never met Tory, how did she know that she was Tara's daughter? Did she stalk Tara? If she did she more than likely would know how Tory got home from school and Tory normally did not not walk home alone so how would TLM know that on that day she would be on her own.

The same applies to MTR, and while he went to the same bar as Tara, I highly doubt Tory ever went to Good Time Charlie's with her mom.

I really have no idea about TLM knowing Tori. JMO I never believed it was random, JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

SUSPECT ACTED OUT OF REVENGE: TORI'S MOM
Charles Lewis and Adrian Humphreys, National Post
Published: Saturday, May 23, 2009


Ms. McDonald confirmed that she and her boyfriend, James Goris, had suspicions about Ms. McClintic's involvement early in the investigation and told police.

She said Ms. McClintic's mother confirmed her daughter knew Tori before she went missing. "At that time Terri-Lynne's mom said, 'Oh, well, she knew who Victoria was' and she said she had seen Victoria walking her dog. Now, I don't know if that meant she had seen Victoria walking our dog or if that meant that she had seen Victoria while out walking their dogs. She did make it clear that Terri-Lynne knew who Victoria was," she said.

Ms. McDonald said she did not know Mr. Rafferty.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1622098&p=2

Okay, thanks for pointing that out. But how did TLM know that Tory would be walking alone that day?

 

[flipflop]

Chapter 8. Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

Chapter 9. Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8.

So, did they reverse the above two chapters then? Because yesterday's testimony sure sounded like Chapter 9 to me. :waitasec:

Thats what I was thinking as well. It was at the end of yesterday that the landscaping business owner discussed the area, then the day ended stating they would hear more on the MF chapter.

 

[Flossie JMO]

Okay, thanks for pointing that out. But how did TLM know that Tory would be walking alone that day?

I don't know if she knew Tori would be walking alone or not. I don't know if she knew when and where Tori normally would meet her brother either, or if there was a normal place and time.

 

[Macright]

SUSPECT ACTED OUT OF REVENGE: TORI'S MOM
Charles Lewis and Adrian Humphreys, National Post
Published: Saturday, May 23, 2009


Ms. McDonald confirmed that she and her boyfriend, James Goris, had suspicions about Ms. McClintic's involvement early in the investigation and told police.

She said Ms. McClintic's mother confirmed her daughter knew Tori before she went missing. "At that time Terri-Lynne's mom said, 'Oh, well, she knew who Victoria was' and she said she had seen Victoria walking her dog. Now, I don't know if that meant she had seen Victoria walking our dog or if that meant that she had seen Victoria while out walking their dogs. She did make it clear that Terri-Lynne knew who Victoria was," she said.

Ms. McDonald said she did not know Mr. Rafferty.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1622098&p=2

wow..thanks for that article..so that does answer the question that TLM did in fact know TS... can see now why innocent little Tori would think nothing of going off with TLM....:moo:

 

[Macright]

Okay, thanks for pointing that out. But how did TLM know that Tory would be walking alone that day?

probably the luck of the draw....:moo:

 

[Maple1]

SUSPECT ACTED OUT OF REVENGE: TORI'S MOM
Charles Lewis and Adrian Humphreys, National Post
Published: Saturday, May 23, 2009


Ms. McDonald confirmed that she and her boyfriend, James Goris, had suspicions about Ms. McClintic's involvement early in the investigation and told police.

She said Ms. McClintic's mother confirmed her daughter knew Tori before she went missing. "At that time Terri-Lynne's mom said, 'Oh, well, she knew who Victoria was' and she said she had seen Victoria walking her dog. Now, I don't know if that meant she had seen Victoria walking our dog or if that meant that she had seen Victoria while out walking their dogs. She did make it clear that Terri-Lynne knew who Victoria was," she said.

Ms. McDonald said she did not know Mr. Rafferty.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1622098&p=2

Link is not working. Thanks though.

 

[snoofer]

Both these nutters are responsible for Tori's death equally and the condition in which her body was found. Both were equally responsible for what Tori's family was put through. This crime could not have taken place if not for both of their actions; acting together. I am not sure why there is even a trial. JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

Questions if I may?

My understanding is that several of the women just met him once ... did any of them say exactly why they weren't interested in actually dating him? Did all of them "dump" him or did he dump them?

How many of the women had children under the age of 12?

Did you get a look at his expressions when each one testified? The media reported that he seemed upset during one woman's testimony last Thursday?

Thanks in advance!

(PS Well preserved lol! Like a pickle?)

And ... on to your other questions. Some of them are impossible to answer because if neither the Crown nor the defence asked a specific question, it was not stated. There is no story telling here - the witness only answers questions.

For instance, only two were asked if they were sexually intimate with MTR and they answered in the affirmative. It should be obvious that some of them never had the opportunity. Most of them were not asked if they had children, so there is no way to know for sure. They were not asked who dumped whom, but in a couple of cases, it seemed obvious.

All of them except RB met him through POF and there was communication via texts, MSM, and phone calls before some of them met with him.

Here is what I got from my notes:

#1 - AR

Current age - 25
Children? - not asked
Who dumped whom - not asked, but they only had one date before he was arrested

#2 - SL

Current age - 50
Children - Six of them (ages not specified)
Who dumped whom - not asked, not made clear if they even met in person

#3 - MW

Current age - 30
Children - not asked
Who dumped whom - She declined dates, they never met in person. Seemed to have been her choice, as he persisted and she refused.

#4 - AC

Current age - 33
Children - Girl now 16, boy now 13
Who dumped whom - Unclear, but ended 3-4 days after Tori went missing. It appeared to be her choice, but not sure.

#5 - Name under ban

Current age - 28
Children - not asked
Who dumped whom - Had one 15 minute coffee date. Further requests denied. Must assume she did the dumping.

#6 - SC

Current age - 29
Children - not asked
Who dumped whom - MR cancelled first date. Had one coffee date another time. She decided they had nothing in common, so she dumped him.

#7 - RB

Current age - 23
Children - not asked
Who dumped whom - She dumped him for another man after a several months' intimate relationship (ended Dec. '07)

HTH

 

[Hello_Kitty]

SUSPECT ACTED OUT OF REVENGE: TORI'S MOM
Charles Lewis and Adrian Humphreys, National Post
Published: Saturday, May 23, 2009


Ms. McDonald confirmed that she and her boyfriend, James Goris, had suspicions about Ms. McClintic's involvement early in the investigation and told police.

She said Ms. McClintic's mother confirmed her daughter knew Tori before she went missing. "At that time Terri-Lynne's mom said, 'Oh, well, she knew who Victoria was' and she said she had seen Victoria walking her dog. Now, I don't know if that meant she had seen Victoria walking our dog or if that meant that she had seen Victoria while out walking their dogs. She did make it clear that Terri-Lynne knew who Victoria was," she said.

Ms. McDonald said she did not know Mr. Rafferty.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1622098&p=2

I'm not sure I would take CM's word on that. Also, if that was so, wouldn't defense have called CM to testify about that?