Welcome our Chemist to Websleuths/Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #3

[Valhall]

Just got off the phone with Dogmom and everything is cool. She is taking care of a sick relative and should be on within the next couple of days.

Whew. All is well in Websleuth land.

Thank goodness! I was getting worried about her. I'll be praying for her relative and can't wait to have her back here!

 

[seagull65]

I agree that is is more than odd that a World of Disney bag would house the syringe and the bottle and be so close to Caylee's remains. I think we might keep in mind that the Gatorade bottle and syringe might have been placed there later, perhaps to frame someone else. And at that point it might make sense that cleaning solvents would be present.

that's true, to frame Casey or someone else, either way

 

[seagull65]

At the moment, I can't find where it says that the Gatorade bottle was inside the World of Disney bag, but It's probably there somewhere.

(snipped by me)

now that you mention it, I was saying the gatorade bottle was in the Disney bag, but maybe it was in the knotted bag and that wasn't the disney bag? Rats, I need to go review.

 

[seagull65]

http://www.wftv.com/_blank/18740668/detail.html
page 3 at this link
okay, it was in the Disney bag, the knotted bag was in the "same pile" near the remains

 

[Bforster]

http://www.wftv.com/_blank/18740668/detail.html
page 3 at this link
okay, it was in the Disney bag, the knotted bag was in the "same pile" near the remains

I think the whole Disney bag and gaterade bottle w/ needle was all a plant to go with the kidnapping story that KC made up.. Just like I think she left her purse in the car to make it seem as tho the vehicle was stolen and she was in danger, Then her friend took CA to her at Tony's and messed up her plans, so thats why she had changed her story to the script instead of sticking to the I dropped her off story.

 

[DogMom2JoeAndWillie]

Hey everyone! I wanted to say thanks for all the welcomes and kind things you've had to say! I'm so sorry that I've been MIA for a while...my dad got sick so I headed to Memphis to take care of him for a while....no internet access ...thought I would GO CRAZY! Missed all my buddies here at WS!!! I'm finally back home and reading through everything in attempt to catch up.

Thanks again for all the nice things you've had to say! Ya'll are the best!!

 

[DogMom2JoeAndWillie]

Thanks Tricia and Congratulations, DogMom. Nice to have you among us. I only got up to Trig and that was a long time ago. Can I send you my grandson's math homework? JK.

Haha, bring it on! I'd be happy to help out in anyway I can, you guys can always PM me homework questions if you want. No promises though...I made B's in Cal 1 and 2 and BARELY made an A in cal 3.

 

[butwhatif?]

Hey everyone! I wanted to say thanks for all the welcomes and kind things you've had to say! I'm so sorry that I've been MIA for a while...my dad got sick so I headed to Memphis to take care of him for a while....no internet access ...thought I would GO CRAZY! Missed all my buddies here at WS!!! I'm finally back home and reading through everything in attempt to catch up.

Thanks again for all the nice things you've had to say! Ya'll are the best!!

Welcome back Dogmom!

I'm gonna start throwing questions at you thick and fast.

1.Do you think the crystal light bottle contents are compatible with spit from chewing tobacco?
2. Do you think the contents of the syringe are possibly contaminated steroids? (specifically sustanon or its equivalents).

3.Did you suffer withdrawals from having no internet access? LOL

Glad to have you back. And TIA for your help.

 

[DogMom2JoeAndWillie]

Welcome back Dogmom! Thanks for the welcome back! Sorry it's taken me so long to respond. You gave me some tough ones and I had to do some reading and catching up before I could answer ya! I'll post my answers in blue...that's my favorite color

I'm gonna start throwing questions at you thick and fast. Bring it on, I'll do my best to answer!

1.Do you think the crystal light bottle contents are compatible with spit from chewing tobacco?
I'll be completely honest and say that I am STILL confused about their labeling and sample numbers. I'm thinking that the Crystal Light bottle you're talking about was 241...with the brownish-yellow liquid that smelled like and was found inside the garbage bag from the trunk of KC's car.....right? Just trying to make sure I'm talking about the right item.
The report says that they found no chloroform in their GC-MS analysis and that the FTIR analysis showed that the sample contained water. On page 11548 (handwritten in bottom right corner) you can see where they took their FTIR results and compared the sample to other compounds...there's a list of items that the brownish-yellow liquid could possibly be on this page, also.
Methanol, methyl ethyl ketone, 2-butanol. dimethyl disulfide, anisole, and p-cresole are listed as the compounds they identified when they analyzed with GC-MS (pages 11609-11623 show the chromatographs and mass spectra from their analysis).
Further along in the documents (handwritten page number 12092) the e-mail between Michael Rickenback and Heather Seubert indicate that the liquid in 241 was likely urine and that SA Nick Savage didn't want to conduct DNA tests.
I'm not sure what compounds you'd expect to find in a urine sample (haven't looked it up yet)...but if it smelled like urine, was yellowish in color, contained water, and then the analysts talked about the possibility that it was urine in their correspondence....my guess is that it's probably urine. I have no idea why they didn't do DNA testing... I'd think they'd want to know (even for curiosity sake) who was peeing in a crystal light bottle and why/how it ended up in KC's trunk.
If the trash was from TL's appartment...maybe one of the guys had to pee really bad while they were stuck in traffic....so they just peed in a bottle when they couldn't wait any longer (embarassed to say that I have guy friends who admit to doing it when they got desperate...when you gotta go, you gotta go!). Whoever peed in the bottle would have taken it into the house to throw it away (who wants a bottle of pee sitting around in the car?)... and then when KC stole their garbage she stole the pee-bottle, too?? Do we know WHY she had the bag of trash in her trunk? (OT, I know...but I just wondered since I'm thinking about it).
I hope this helps some....PLEASE correct me on anything I'm wrong about!

2. Do you think the contents of the syringe are possibly contaminated steroids? (specifically sustanon or its equivalents).
Thats 240-1-1, right? So the first page of results says it's got two parts...one that's water and one that's a hydrocarbon/oil based on FTIR analysis. Again, you can see the list of possible matches based on the FTIR analysis on page 11541 (the colorless part) and on pages 11544 and 11545for the other part.
The report from GC-MS analysis says that the whitish aqueous portion was probably a cleaning liquid (similar to 238.1 and smelled similar to cleaning product) and that the yellowish part 090115014 was some type of oily mix of testosterone compounds. They took part of the yellowish, oily portion from 240.1.1 (they were able to do this because the two portions were immiscible) and diluted "a small amount" with 200 mics of CH2Cl2. When they analyzed the diluted sample, they found that the sample was TOO concentrated so they needed to dilute it even further. They took their "small amount": 200 mics CH2Cl2 solution and diluted it with 1mL CH2Cl2. The notes are pretty vague (the wording is a little odd and they aren't being specific/detailed enough to suit me, lol) but what I'm thinking this means is that the FINAL solution that they analyzed had a total volume of 200 mics PLUS 1000 mics (same as 1mL) of CH2Cl2 added to the "small portion" of the yellow, oily part of the sample. Lets simplify it and assume that this was a 1:1200 dilution of the sample... we don't know how much of that "small amount" (or 1 microliter based on our assumption) is actually the testosterone compound.
Think about it like the yellow-oily sample is a packet of drink mix. The drink mix has sugar in it (just like the sample has testosterone in it) but it also has other components (like the sample has things other than testosterone). What you want to know is how much sugar was in the packet of drink mix, but your taste buds are SUPER sensitive to sugar so you can taste even the tiniest bit of sugar. When you taste the drink mix (without diluting it) all you can taste is TONS OF SUGAR, so you know you've got to dilute it so that your sensitive taste buds aren't overwhelmed by the sugar. Next, you put the drink mix in a cup of water (the first dilution) but you can still only taste sugar. You realize that you have to dilute it even more (the second dilution) so you pour the cup of water/drink mix into a gallon of water. Once you've gotten your drink mix diluted enough, you're sensitive taste buds can identify how much sugar is in the drink mix (and you can also identify what other things are in there...like grape flavor, color additive, preservative, vitamins, minerals, etc).
So thinking about how much they had to dilute their sample, I'd say that there would have to be a pretty significant amount of testosterone in that "small amount" they started with. I mean, they had to dilute it two different times to even do their analysis. I haven't studied up on injectable steroids or anything, but I'd think it's safe to say that if a tiny amount of the residue had THAT MUCH testosterone in it, then the person who was using the syringe was probably taking some type of testosterone shot.
I really hope this helps! If I don't make sense PLEASE let me know and I'll try again! Also, please correct me on anything I've gotten wrong. Tricia confirmed that I've got a chemistry degree but I'm not an expert by any means and I'd hate to disappoint you guys by giving crappy answers!
3.Did you suffer withdrawals from having no internet access?
LOL This is an easy one.... YES YES and YES I suffered withdrawls! I was so excited when Tricia called me to check in (she thought that I'd been scared off or something) and told me that she'd let everyone know why I had been MIA!!!
Glad to have you back. And TIA for your help.

:woohoo: I finally managed to get this one answered! Been working on it for a while, whew!! Doing my happy dance and hoping this helps!!! :dance:

 

[DogMom2JoeAndWillie]

Welcome Dogmom as our new resident chemist,

And my first question to you is What is the multiplicative inverse of a negative seven?
OMG that isn't chemistry sorry lol
I am so glad to have a chemist to be able to answer our questions, because chemistry is as understandable to me as the saying "the higher the ducks fly, the much"

I hope you have many happy days of sleuthing in your future

Heehee! I'm such a nerd... I'm gonna answer this one...even though you were just kidding.
:too much info: "Multiplicative inverse" is the same thing as "reciprocal". For any number, the reciprocal is just 1 divided by that number. When you multiply the reciprocal by the original number, the answer should always be = 1.

So.... the multiplicative inverse of -7 is.... (drumroll, please....)


1/-7 :blowkiss:

 

[DogMom2JoeAndWillie]

OK, I don't know where she went. LOL. I'll try and call her.

I'd better warn you guys about something. You know the movie Forrest Gump?Forrest always manages to be right in the middle of the exciting times of the day through no effort of his own.

I am the Forrest Gump of anything weird, crazy, and unbelievable. These three things follow me around and make life impossible sometimes through no fault of my own. It just happens.

You are getting this warning because I am afraid I will call Dogmom's home and be told she decided to leave the U.S. to study the effects of Bot-flies on the Madagascar Monkey.

Really, it could happen.

Tricia Gump, you're so wrong it hurts! There aren't any Bot-flies or monkeys in Madagascar, silly! (kidding, I really don't know if there are or not)
Thanks for calling to check on me, for letting everyone know where I had gone, and for telling my buddies that I'd be back soon! That was so thoughtful of you...you're the best, Tricia!

 

[Jolynna]

Is there any reason to draw a cleaning product up into a syringe?

Thank you for being here DogMom2JoeandWillie!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[butwhatif?]

Thanks dogmom....and my fave colour is blue too!

If it was urine in the bottle I would expect there to be THC too since they were all pot smokers ?
But then that would be in the tox results rather than chem results right?...heck....I'm confusing myself now. Damn PMS- cant focus properly atm.
I'll start looking up urine compounds when I'm thinking a little more clearly.

Re : your male friends peeing into bottles. Ive heard waaaay worse. My sis works as a union rep for a large casino here and apparently the punters cant drag themselves away from the tables long enough to urinate in the toilets and just pee right there under the table- no bottles, just straight onto the carpet.
EEEEEWWWWW!

 

[DogMom2JoeAndWillie]

Thanks dogmom....and my fave colour is blue too!

If it was urine in the bottle I would expect there to be THC too since they were all pot smokers ?
But then that would be in the tox results rather than chem results right?...heck....I'm confusing myself now. Damn PMS- cant focus properly atm.
I'll start looking up urine compounds when I'm thinking a little more clearly.

Re : your male friends peeing into bottles. Ive heard waaaay worse. My sis works as a union rep for a large casino here and apparently the punters cant drag themselves away from the tables long enough to urinate in the toilets and just pee right there under the table- no bottles, just straight onto the carpet.
EEEEEWWWWW!

I'm not sure if there would be THC in the urine sample or not. I know that THC is a fat-soluble compound and I read that the sample was mostly water. I know that you can detect THC in urine, cause drug tests are administered all the time for pot. I was just thinking that if this stuff sat outside in the summer heat for months, then the THC may have degraded over time. I'd think they would want to do some DNA testing on it (if it's really urine) to figure out whose it was and see if they could be linked to Caylee somehow.
Hehe, I don't have PMS to blame... I'm just too lazy to look it up right now! I'll get around to it sooner or later!
Guys are so gross sometimes....but you'd be even more amazed at how disgusting women can be. I worked at a retail-clothing store when I was in highschool....you will NEVER go into a fitting room barefoot again once I tell you what I used to find in there when I cleaned.....I've found a half eaten fried-chicken thigh, a human tooth, clumps of hair extensions/weave, used feminine hygeine products, soiled diapers and wipes/tissue, big wet stains on the carpet. Then again, the store I worked at was in West Memphis, AR... that might explain why it was so nasty...WM isn't the cleanest or safest place in the world.

 

[Harmony 2]

I am watching a basketball game and reading at the same time so not giving 100% to reading comprehension. The contents of the Crystal Light bottle was urine and not spit from chewing tobacco... am I understanding correctly?

 

[Bittiness39]

My question: not so much with the Gatorade/syringe as it has to do with long time dosage? If say, KC, drugged her child with Xanax on a regular basis so KC could party...where might that show up in hair samples of Caylee? TY.

 

[Harmony 2]

My question: not so much with the Gatorade/syringe as it has to do with long time dosage? If say, KC, drugged her child with Xanax on a regular basis so KC could party...where might that show up in hair samples of Caylee? TY.

Hi LittleBitty!

I hope this helps in answering specifically about Caylee.

page 13

page 14

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/11051-11110.pdf

 

[Bittiness39]

hi littlebitty!

I hope this helps in answering specifically about caylee.

Page 13

page 14

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedfiles/11051-11110.pdf

ty. :d

 

[Anothermom]

I think chemical composition is a completely different thing than "ingredients." Each ingrdient would have its own chemical composition.

Also, in response to testosterone in the syringe and bio-identical hormone replacement, I have some testosterone in a syringe, no needle. The syringe is marked with felt tip marker the dose to administer or squeeze out of the syringe and rub onto the skin. It is a white cream and the package says "10 C-Testosterone 1% Vanpen." The syringe is a light brown with a white plunger, again, there is not a needle attached to the syringe. The syringe holds 1 ML and the dose is marked in graduations of .2 ML, five doses per syringe. It's supposed to help your libido...if you know what I mean...

 

[Anothermom]

Did they ever release DR. G's opinion of Caylee's death. I know she stated homicide of unknown, or something along those lines, but didn't she state that she had a pretty definite idea about cause of death that was her opinion?