Welcome our Chemist to Websleuths/Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #3

[RR0004]

In the sentinel slideshow of today (the photo numbers keep changing or I would say which picture)...there is a photo of the syringe on a petri dish with gel on the needle and then a photo of the plastic packaging with blueish gel inside.

Wonder what this is?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/os-casey-anthony-evidence-pictures-021610,0,62313.photogallery

At first I was going to say they photographed the different aspects of the testing...at least of anything they may have found suspicious...but the more I think about it...I have no clue.

 

[wonders]

Please tell me that a DNA test was run on the cap and lip of the Gatorade bottle even if we haven't seen the results yet.
I would think with the cap being sealed on the bottle it would be pretty safe from the elements and hold some secret.
Thank you WS's.

 

[panama]

Hey! Guys! Ok, so I was looking for an expiration date on the Gatorade bottle when the pics of it were released several months ago. No dates were visible in those photos.

But there's a visible date on one of the pictures released yesterday. It's June 21, 2007.

2007!

I've occasionally bought things at the store that turn out to have already expired by a week or something. But an entire year?

This date is consistent with the bottle being unrelated to Casey or Caylee.

(The 2006 copyright date at the bottom isn't that significant, but hey, it's there. The (unique?) ID on the bottle could probably reveal where it was sold, or at least some more information about it. Probably the powers-that-be already have this information.)

Photo is attached.

(Um, if this doesn't actually merit its own thread, please merge with the Syringe/Chloroform in Bottle thread, and apologies in advance for the inconvenience. :innocent: )

 

[DaughterAlice]

You are ONE SHARP COOKIE!! :detective: Fantastic sleuthing!!

I have never truly believed that the gatoraide bottle + syringe really truly had anything to do with KC or Caylee. I do wonder if LE, SA, or defense are reading these posts. I wonder if they noticed this date already?

 

[panama]

Also, there's something that looks like an expiration date on the syringe wrapper. It could be coincidental though -- a serial number or batch number that happens to fit a date format. It looks like: 2008 02 20.

If it is a date, I don't think this necessarily means as much as the gatorade bottle's date, for a variety of reasons.

(The wrapper says RYVMED 3ML Luer Lock with Needle 22G x 1 1/2". We could try to figure out what this kind of syringe is usually used for, and where it's available, etc.)

Picture is attached.

 

[panama]

Thanks DaughterAlice . Yeah, I have to wonder. I bet they've tried to trace the serial number. Though, it seems like this kind of thing is good for exonerating Casey, not for implicating her. If it had a later expiration date, it doesn't say much either way. If it has an old expiration date, then it points to it not having to do with Casey/Caylee. So it seems like the kind of thing the defense would pursue, but not the state. (I'm just guessing though. I wonder if this is the first the defense would have seen of the date as well? Hmm.)

 

[spqr]

Hey! Guys! Ok, so I was looking for an expiration date on the Gatorade bottle when the pics of it were released several months ago. No dates were visible in those photos.

But there's a visible date on one of the pictures released yesterday. It's June 21, 2007.

2007!

I've occasionally bought things at the store that turn out to have already expired by a week or something. But an entire year?

This date is consistent with the bottle being unrelated to Casey or Caylee.

(The 2006 copyright date at the bottom isn't that significant, but hey, it's there. The (unique?) ID on the bottle could probably reveal where it was sold, or at least some more information about it. Probably the powers-that-be already have this information.)

Photo is attached.

(Um, if this doesn't actually merit its own thread, please merge with the Syringe/Chloroform in Bottle thread, and apologies in advance for the inconvenience. :innocent: )

BBM:

With all due respect, I differ on that theory. Just because the bottle had an expiration date from a year before, doesn't exclude that bottle being held onto by KC for repeat use. I myself have reused water/soda/juice bottles and refilled them with water to take to the gym, toss in my car, etc...

Just my opinion

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Hey! Guys! Ok, so I was looking for an expiration date on the Gatorade bottle when the pics of it were released several months ago. No dates were visible in those photos.

But there's a visible date on one of the pictures released yesterday. It's June 21, 2007.

2007!

I've occasionally bought things at the store that turn out to have already expired by a week or something. But an entire year?

This date is consistent with the bottle being unrelated to Casey or Caylee.

(The 2006 copyright date at the bottom isn't that significant, but hey, it's there. The (unique?) ID on the bottle could probably reveal where it was sold, or at least some more information about it. Probably the powers-that-be already have this information.)

Photo is attached.

(Um, if this doesn't actually merit its own thread, please merge with the Syringe/Chloroform in Bottle thread, and apologies in advance for the inconvenience. :innocent: )

And, yes, the "2006" date is basically irrelevant....probably when a label change in design or a company revision, etc. occured. (Ex "large beverage company" scientist talking here)


From the Gatorade site....

7. What is the shelf life of Gatorade?

Gatorade has a shelf life of approximately one year from its production.



Where is the date on the Gatorade bottle? What does it stand for?

The date on the first line of the neck of the bottle indicates when Gatorade is at its optimal freshness and flavor. Gatorade can be safely consumed past that date if the seal is intact and the product has been stored in a clean, dry, cool environment.


8. Why doesn't Gatorade use open-code 'best-used by' dating?

Gatorade is in the process of evaluating an open-dating system. Internationally, all countries except China, Australia, some Japanese products, Puerto Rico and Mexico, use an open code date.




Basically....I suppose, when purchased in a "convenience store", the dates are usually within the "optimal date"...in this case, June 21, 2007.
Often, when /if purchased in bulk from Sam's, for example, the stuff CAN sit for a while at someone's house before being used.
Also....IMO....the bottle COULD have been laying around in the general vicinity and just used to dispose of the items/syringe, etc....again, just a possibility, since that was known as an area to just throw/dump things....as we've seen, obviously poor little baby girls by their pathetic mothers, as well....ugggh.

Mind you...I'm NOT saying YOUR findings are not a possibility, either. It's GREAT research and thought on your part, as well.

 

[panama]

Another piece of info: the bottle says "not for individual sale" at the bottom.

ETA: The 8x20 on the UPC/Proof-of-Purchase along with the "not for individual sale" statement, as well as the fact that it's a 20 ounce bottle (from nutritional info) probably means it was from an 8-pack.

Pic attached.

 

[panama]

The small piece of plastic (Q238.2; picture attached) found in the bottle looks much like a sort of blister back that syringe (kits) are packaged in. Here's one (though a different brand); check out the enlarged image on the page (or here).

The white papery stuff in the plastic wrapper (see attached picture) could easily be the remnants of the backing of the blister back.

 

[butwhatif?]

I never really thought the gatorade and syringe had anything to do with the case.
But if you look at the first two pics here: http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?t=22178&highlight

.....to me it looks like the tip of the cap has come into contact with chloroform.
I spent alot of years getting cloroform into a syringe at work, and while the plastic of the syringe doesn't disolve on contact, the tip/cap is made of a weaker plastic and disolves easily with even a drop of the stuff.

Just an observation and I'm quite possibly way off, but wanted to throw it out there anyway.

 

[marspiter]

I never really thought the gatorade and syringe had anything to do with the case.
But if you look at the first two pics here: http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/viewtopic.php?t=22178&highlight

.....to me it looks like the tip of the cap has come into contact with chloroform.
I spent alot of years getting cloroform into a syringe at work, and while the plastic of the syringe doesn't disolve on contact, the tip/cap is made of a weaker plastic and disolves easily with even a drop of the stuff.

Just an observation and I'm quite possibly way off, but wanted to throw it out there anyway.

Just a quick question? What kind of work were you doing that required Chloroform to be placed into a syringe? Not trying to be snarky actually wondering as I thought it was only used as an industrial solvent in the making of Teflon, R22 and bonding of Plexiglass now (hasn't been allowed in consumer products since the 70's). Many years ago it was used as an anesthetic but wasn't that in vapor form?

 

[notthatsmart]

May be a stupid question, but it is for the chemist.

Wouldn't that level of chloroform in the trunk (parts per million vs parts per billion normal), kill any flies in the trunk? thanks

 

[Eidetic]

Pages 391-398 of this book are results of a series of experiments where chloroform was injected and inhaled by dogs and monkeys.
http://books.google.com/books?id=pl...Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=inject chloroform&f=false

With chloroform overdose, death is almost always due to the affect on the respiratory system (with the exception of asphyxiation simultaneously or being injected directly into the chest cavity piercing the heart.) . As the organ dies, the heart can still continue to beat after the blood pressure has fallen and respiratory ceases. If Caylee were still breathing shallow, or her heart continued to beat, this could explain the duct tape and why prosecution allege Caylee was chemically restrained before being taped.

Of course, it is always more concentrated when injected rather than inhaled. If I recall correctly, the lab report said it was a rather high concentration of chloroform, it was also noted they weren't sure how a 2-3 yr old child could ingest such a quantity.

Link to another chloroform discussion if it has already been shared in this thread, I apologize.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70561"]All About Chloroform#2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[ZsaZsa]

May be a stupid question, but it is for the chemist.

Wouldn't that level of chloroform in the trunk (parts per million vs parts per billion normal), kill any flies in the trunk? thanks

Maybe one of the Forensic Entomologists could do a post mortem on one of the coffin flies and tell us what killed it.

 

[chefmom]

May be a stupid question, but it is for the chemist.

Wouldn't that level of chloroform in the trunk (parts per million vs parts per billion normal), kill any flies in the trunk? thanks

Interesting, NTS! Something I've not thought about. (I'm not a chemist or anything. This question just made me go :waitasec

 

[Tulessa]

Maybe one of the Forensic Entomologists could do a post mortem on one of the coffin flies and tell us what killed it.

:dance:

 

[chefmom]

Maybe one of the Forensic Entomologists could do a post mortem on one of the coffin flies and tell us what killed it.

Lol, ZsaZsa! A tiny, little post mortem! Haha! Seriously, though. I wonder if the high amounts of chloro would inhibit the flies in any way? You know, make them want to stay away instead of allowing them to be drawn in droves to the body? Many on here have speculated that if Caylee had been in that trunk decomposing for any length of time it would have drawn hordes of flies. I tend to agree. However, I can't help but wonder if the high concentration of chloroform might have kept the flies at bay. KWIM?

 

[Eidetic]

Maybe one of the Forensic Entomologists could do a post mortem on one of the coffin flies and tell us what killed it.

The life cycle of the blow fly
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/in150

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/visibleproofs/education/entomology/blow_fly_life_cycle.pdf

Looking up Megaselia scalaris (coffin fly) now, were there any other type of insects collected from the remain site, trunk or trash bag from the trunk?

Coffin fly "Life Cycle
A female of Megaselia scalaris is capable of laying 20 eggs at a time and about 500 in her lifetime. Eggs are laid near suitable host material and larvae hatch in 24 hours. The larvae feed for 8 to 16 days and then crawl to a drier spot to pupate. The life cycle can be completed in 14 days under ideal conditions, but it can take as long as 37 days.

[text by Louisiana State U.]"

http://bugguide.net/node/view/14163

 

[ZsaZsa]

Lol, ZsaZsa! A tiny, little post mortem! Haha! Seriously, though. I wonder if the high amounts of chloro would inhibit the flies in any way? You know, make them want to stay away instead of allowing them to be drawn in droves to the body? Many on here have speculated that if Caylee had been in that trunk decomposing for any length of time it would have drawn hordes of flies. I tend to agree. However, I can't help but wonder if the high concentration of chloroform might have kept the flies at bay. KWIM?

To my mind it's just another effort to distract people from the fact that there were coffin flies present in KC's car along with decomposition from her daughter.
Does it matter if the coffin flies died of Chloroform or old age?