What does Linda Arndt know?

[andreww]

I appreciate your response but am a little confused as to what you are getting at. "Chronic" suggests repeated, ongoing activity. I find it difficult to believe that medical experts would use that term to describe what might have been a single occurrence that happened at least 48 hrs prior to her death. When Beckner stated that there was no way of knowing whether the abuse was chronic, I can only take that at face value meaning there is absolutely no way to prove this was ongoing.

 

[ninaskids]

Boy, do I hope you are right. I still can't get past the reference the GJ made to the Ramsey's assisting someone who they knew had committed "first degree murder". I can't make a connection between that verbiage and Burke's guilt, since he was too young to be charged with a crime of any sort. IMO, I have to think an adult was the perpetrator.

The only perp I would think of would be John Andrew. That the GJ is referring to besides Burke.
He was in Boulder on Christmas Day and supposedly showed back up at the airport the day after when all this happened. However, I never really thought it was him is because he proved he was with his family on Christmas night.
ON THE OTHER HAND--- If someone can't prove beyond a doubt where they were the night of a killing, then look closer at the person.

The GJ comments need to be taken with a grain of salt. They were dealing with a DA who was not going to prosecute. They needed to make it sound as bad as possible. The person the Ramsey's "helped" could have easily been Burke. The reason I say Burke is because of 3 different things.
1. The flashlight, which should have had numerous fingerprints on it, was wiped clean. Now how did that happen?

2. Burke's medical records have been sealed. I am not sure if his current adult records remain sealed but his med records from Boulder were definitely sealed. Now what could be in a child's medical history at age 1-9 that would necessitate sealing and privacy? All that kids go thru is shots, vaccinations, colds, flu, etc. Why would you seal THAT?
However, if Burke had a rage condition or sexual devianciancy that PR sought treatment for---that would be part of his medical history.

Suppose the cops got access to everyone's medical history. They certainly had JBs. And they see that Burke has been to a psychologist regularly for some condition which could cause him to get enraged and basically just attack. Especially JB. Even if Burke were innocent of hurting JB that night, the med records would send the police to him quickly as the one.

I am surprised no one else thinks a sealed med record of a small boy is strange.

3. The ransom note not having fingerprints is a huge red flag. And points to an inside job. If PR wrote the ransom note she was wearing gloves. If an intruder wrote the note, he wore gloves. But if PR was innocent of the crime or of covering up, she would have come downstairs as usual, not wearing gloves, and picked up the note, since it was "on the stairs".

Right? Maybe John didn't touch it, but she surely did. How come no fingerprints?????

yes, it was an inside job. Even John Ramsey told LA it was an inside job. Now my gosh why would he say that? Or did he not mean to?

 

[ninaskids]

BTW, Burke cannot be prosecuted now. He was too young to be prosecuted then and that is when the crime happened. This could be what LA means, when she says they will never be prosecuted.
Didnt' she say that before PR died? That means it was Burke. It has to be someone the cops can never touch.
That wouldnt' be John Ramsey. He is alive and well, and if Burke told someone his dad did it, his dad could be prosecuted. Same for John Andrew.

Even I can think of that. So it has to be someone that Linda A knows cannot ever go to jail for it. Burke.

 

[andreww]

A couple of things. Because the Grand Jury only recommended that the Ramseys be indicted for aiding in the coverup, it does not mean that another party was involved. It simply means that there is no way to determine which of the three of them actually twisted that garrotte.

As for Burkes medical records, not seeing that it would make much of a difference. Burke didn't construct the garrotte and strangle her. Burke didn't write the ransom note. And Burke was under the age of prosecution, so I don't see LE going to court with team Ramsey in order to see those records.

The ransom note not having fingerprints is a non issue. Paper is not the greatest surface to lift a print from unless the person had extremely oily skin work was sweating. Whoever wrote the note, Ramsey or Intruder, would have been stupid not to wear gloves, so Im not surprised that there were no prints. However it does leave the possibility open that the note was never on the stairs, but just placed on the floor by the author.

 

[andreww]

Again, Linda Arndt is simply saying that nobody will ever be prosecuted because at best only 3 people actually know what happened. One of those is dead, and the other two are even less likely to talk. Beckner even alluded to it saying the only way this will be solved is with confession.

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't think anybody meant to be offensive. We have two types of injury here, from long term abuse and from the attack that night that caused her to bleed. Although improbable, it is possible that the long term injuries may have been self inflicted and the injuries of that night may have been an attempt to stage a sexual assault in an attempt to mask the real motive of the murder.
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I get very tired of people suggesting JB caused her vaginal injuries herself. So I hope you won't be offended by my reply. It plays in to typical male attitudes that anything inserted into a female vagina feels good. Unless stimulation to the clitoris is involved, orgasm will not usually occur, and in a child of 6 the hormones that produce secretions that make this violation pleasurable are not present. The coroner stated JB was a "PRE-pubescent" female. Putting things into her vagina did NOT feel good, no matter who was doing it. It was also noted that the labia in children this age is fused closed and must be manually separated, something I doubt she'd do to herself.
Why is it so hard to envision abuse by a family member? Is the subject too close for comfort for some people?
The injuries indicted some level of pain was involved. Note to men- females do NOT like to feel vaginal pain. Stop reading 50 Shades of Gray. Sex is not supposed to be painful. Sexual assault invariably IS painful.
Yes, SOME little girls DO masturbate- so do little boys. And even very young boys can ejaculate, though viable sperm is not present till puberty. But in a little girl, sexual penetration is NOT pleasurable to HER. A little girl will not usually insert anything (even a finger) INTO her vagina, as this is uncomfortable/painful. A child that age does not know where the clitoris is or what is does UNLESS she has been shown by someone else. Masturbation in little girls usually consists of rubbing the external vaginal area/vulva- rarely does it involve putting anything into the vagina - unless she has learned that behavior from someone else.
Bottom line- someone ELSE caused those "chronic" injuries - as well as any that occurred that night- staging or not. Unless you think she broke the paintbrush herself and jabbed it in her vagina because it felt good. If that's the case, we are certainly approaching this CRIME from a different place.

 

[DeeDee249]

Again, Linda Arndt is simply saying that nobody will ever be prosecuted because at best only 3 people actually know what happened. One of those is dead, and the other two are even less likely to talk. Beckner even alluded to it saying the only way this will be solved is with confession.

Yes, and add to this the fact that one of the 2 remaining is also forever protected from prosecution, or even questioning, forever.

 

[DeeDee249]

A couple of things. Because the Grand Jury only recommended that the Ramseys be indicted for aiding in the coverup, it does not mean that another party was involved. It simply means that there is no way to determine which of the three of them actually twisted that garrotte.

As for Burkes medical records, not seeing that it would make much of a difference. Burke didn't construct the garrotte and strangle her. Burke didn't write the ransom note. And Burke was under the age of prosecution, so I don't see LE going to court with team Ramsey in order to see those records.

The ransom note not having fingerprints is a non issue. Paper is not the greatest surface to lift a print from unless the person had extremely oily skin work was sweating. Whoever wrote the note, Ramsey or Intruder, would have been stupid not to wear gloves, so Im not surprised that there were no prints. However it does leave the possibility open that the note was never on the stairs, but just placed on the floor by the author.

I disagree on the medical records for BR. Access to those medical records would indicate whether a parent ever discussed any inappropriate behavior- it wasn't about how many times he had strep throat or if he had chicken pox. Pediatricians also discuss EMOTIONAL health with parents- and that would include any aggressive, prematurely sexual, or abusive behaviors- either with a sibling or someone else. THAT is the information that would be useful in determining where the previous abuse may have come from.

 

[ninaskids]

A couple of things. Because the Grand Jury only recommended that the Ramseys be indicted for aiding in the coverup, it does not mean that another party was involved. It simply means that there is no way to determine which of the three of them actually twisted that garrotte.

As for Burkes medical records, not seeing that it would make much of a difference. Burke didn't construct the garrotte and strangle her. Burke didn't write the ransom note. And Burke was under the age of prosecution, so I don't see LE going to court with team Ramsey in order to see those records.

The ransom note not having fingerprints is a non issue. Paper is not the greatest surface to lift a print from unless the person had extremely oily skin work was sweating. Whoever wrote the note, Ramsey or Intruder, would have been stupid not to wear gloves, so Im not surprised that there were no prints. However it does leave the possibility open that the note was never on the stairs, but just placed on the floor by the author.

you may have missed my point about the med records. We all know that Burke did not fashion the garrote or twist it. He is the one who hit her or caused her to fall and hit her head! I say the med records being sealed is so odd that it HAS to be a red flag. Tell me what could be in a child's medical history at that age that needs to BE SEALED never to be revealed?????
That tells me it is Burke.

I don't see GJ wanting to see the records either. LA knew that Burke would never be chosen as the one who did it, because it would require Burke to admit it and even then Patsy would say Burke is insane or lying. I would love to know what she took him to a child psychologist for, if that is what is in the records.

I mention it to PROVE to anyone still on the fence, that it has to be Burke. He is the only one who cannot ever go to jail. Yes PR is dead, but if it were revealed she did it, she would be reviled in history.

If paper can retain fingerprints, which it can, then Patsy picking up the note and reading it, which she said she did do, would have left some print. Our fingers are covered in oil, and soapy residue. and in the morning, after washing your hands and face, putting on cream, you can transfer a print. but patsy def didn't want any prints on that note.

It doesn't matter if the note was on the "stairs" or on the floor. Someone read it or they wouldn't have placed the call.

PR never even put it on the stairs btw. She kept it in her possession someplace until time to call 911.
That story about finding it is such hogwash. Why or how would an "intruder" know that the small back staircase is THE PLACE to put a ransom note, when the kitchen or JBs bed is more logical?

You see, when you dig deeper with simple questions, you realize no intruder was ever in that house.

 

[ninaskids]

Yes, and add to this the fact that one of the 2 remaining is also forever protected from prosecution, or even questioning, forever.

Exactly. he can never be touched.

 

[questfortrue]

~RSBM~ I find it difficult to believe that medical experts would use that term to describe what might have been a single occurrence that happened at least 48 hrs prior to her death.

The difficulty some may have in understanding medical experts’ expression of “chronic” is why I mentioned it at all. Not being argumentative with you, as you are very clear what Beckner was saying. However, the autopsy report is public, and the “chronic” injuries to JB’s vaginal vault have been discussed for years on the threads. Since you brought over the new Beckner quote, that she had not suffered chronic abuse, my post was simply a clarification of the term “chronic” as defined in the AR and as understood within Beckner’s interview. And though you’ve expressed an understanding of this, keep in mind other readers might be confused about the discrepancy between Dr. Meyer’s AR and Beckner’s statement. ME's forensic pathology terms many times differ from commonly understood descriptions of injuries by laymen.

 

[DeeDee249]

you may have missed my point about the med records. We all know that Burke did not fashion the garrote or twist it. He is the one who hit her or caused her to fall and hit her head! I say the med records being sealed is so odd that it HAS to be a red flag. Tell me what could be in a child's medical history at that age that needs to BE SEALED never to be revealed?????
That tells me it is Burke.

I don't see GJ wanting to see the records either. LA knew that Burke would never be chosen as the one who did it, because it would require Burke to admit it and even then Patsy would say Burke is insane or lying. I would love to know what she took him to a child psychologist for, if that is what is in the records.

I mention it to PROVE to anyone still on the fence, that it has to be Burke. He is the only one who cannot ever go to jail. Yes PR is dead, but if it were revealed she did it, she would be reviled in history.

If paper can retain fingerprints, which it can, then Patsy picking up the note and reading it, which she said she did do, would have left some print. Our fingers are covered in oil, and soapy residue. and in the morning, after washing your hands and face, putting on cream, you can transfer a print. but patsy def didn't want any prints on that note.

It doesn't matter if the note was on the "stairs" or on the floor. Someone read it or they wouldn't have placed the call.

PR never even put it on the stairs btw. She kept it in her possession someplace until time to call 911.
That story about finding it is such hogwash. Why or how would an "intruder" know that the small back staircase is THE PLACE to put a ransom note, when the kitchen or JBs bed is more logical?

You see, when you dig deeper with simple questions, you realize no intruder was ever in that house.

There was a reason for her claim that she found it on the stairs. IMO, the Rs went through a very short list of people they could finger as potential suspects. One was their housekeeper, LHP. She was in a lower socioeconomic group, not as educated, and with limited financial means as well as having money problems- she had recently asked Patsy for a $2000 loan (which Patsy agreed to). They likely felt she did not have the educational or financial means to fight them. Thankfully, there was NO forensic evidence- not even a fiber- linking her to the crime scene. The other was former Access Graphics employee J Merrick. He left under unpleasant circumstances. The RN was written in such a way as to throw blame in several directions without actually naming names (which would lead to lawsuits like Chris Wolf's). So that was why things like the bonus amount being used as the ransom demand, and a SFF was also named. As for LHP- she and Patsy used that back staircase as a "communication center". They would leave notes for each other there. Patsy would leave her handbags there for LHP to vacuum out. When JR came up from the basement holding JB's dead body, the first thing he said before he shed a single fake tear was "this is an inside job". And I think LHP was first on the list. They would have sold her down the river. Sad, because when she heard about the murder (when police came to her house to question her) she was so supportive of Patsy, telling police she would never think Patsy would have harmed JB. When she realized she was being fingered for this- she began to see exactly what the Rs were trying to do.

 

[andreww]

If paper can retain fingerprints, which it can, then Patsy picking up the note and reading it, which she said she did do, would have left some print. Our fingers are covered in oil, and soapy residue. and in the morning, after washing your hands and face, putting on cream,

Actually Patsy said she never touched the note. According to her, she stepped over it, bent down and read only the first few lines. The note was handled by John after that.

I always wonder, if she only read the first few lines, she knew to tell the 911 operator that the note was signed SBTC?


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[andreww]

At deedee, I don't want to belabor this too much but different women get sexual pleasure from different things. Some prefer clitoral stimulation, others prefer insertion.

I don't actually believe JBRs injuries were self inflicted but I do accept the fact that it is possible they were. This would be a big hurdle to overcome if the Ramsey's had ever been charged in relation to that aspect of the crime.


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[questfortrue]

At deedee, I don't want to belabor this too much but different women get sexual pleasure from different things. Some prefer clitoral stimulation, others prefer insertion.

I don't actually believe JBRs injuries were self inflicted but I do accept the fact that it is possible they were. This would be a big hurdle to overcome if the Ramsey's had ever been charged in relation to that aspect of the crime.


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When I first read the post of this subject I had the same reaction as some others. I believed that DeeDee249 well-expressed her disgust in such as subject in detail and with sensitivity. If someone read my post which included the excerpt of LA’s interview on Good Morning America, it’d be noted that LA could barely get the words out, for the horror she felt about JB being violated in such a manner. LA stumbled in conveying this to the interviewer.

As for a defense attorney bringing this up in a trial, it’s my belief that would be akin to OJ wearing his famous shoes to court. The R attorneys spent countless hours dismissing anything which suggested prior abuse. They tried to work an agreement with the BPD to suppress that information in return for allowing an interview with the Rs to take place. They even released a press release that there had been no prior abuse.

Don’t take this reply as any kind of reproach, etc. It’s meant only to inform. Speaking only for myself, I understand no one was intending to be offensive, but keeping JonBenet in focus and what was done to her, her death and desecration, the hiding of her body in a filthy dank room, connecting any such subject even in casual discussion as a possibility, does become offensive, because it appears to diminish what was done to her and that she is a victim here.
JMHO

 

[UKGuy]

I don't think anybody meant to be offensive. We have two types of injury here, from long term abuse and from the attack that night that caused her to bleed. Although improbable, it is possible that the long term injuries may have been self inflicted and the injuries of that night may have been an attempt to stage a sexual assault in an attempt to mask the real motive of the murder.




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andreww,
You must brush up on your use of terminology. Chronic simply means not acute. i.e. prior to the current crime-scene.

Coroner Meyer noted internal healing of old scar tissue, this allows the determination of chronic abuse, i.e. Beckner's opinion is patently not founded on empirical evidence.

So you can rule this aspect out!

.

 

[andreww]

Chronic (medicine)
A chronic condition is a human health condition or disease that is persistent or otherwise long-lasting in its effects or a disease that comes with time.

 

[UKGuy]

At deedee, I don't want to belabor this too much but different women get sexual pleasure from different things. Some prefer clitoral stimulation, others prefer insertion.

I don't actually believe JBRs injuries were self inflicted but I do accept the fact that it is possible they were. This would be a big hurdle to overcome if the Ramsey's had ever been charged in relation to that aspect of the crime.


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andreww,
JonBenet was not a woman. She was a six year old girl, so all this masturbation talk with bizarre instruments is out of place.

Evidence of internal injury at that age is prima facie evidence of abuse, and diagnosed as such in a medical situation would mandate immediate reporting to the relevant authorities.

.

 

[UKGuy]

Chronic (medicine)
A chronic condition is a human health condition or disease that is persistent or otherwise long-lasting in its effects or a disease that comes with time.

andreww,
Thats if you are talking disease. Abuse might only occur twice, once chronically and once acutely. Your definition is also by analogy using some disease that has an obvious timeline, e.g. sadly Leonard Nimoy, RIP!

.

 

[andreww]

andreww,
JonBenet was not a woman. She was a six year old girl, so all this masturbation talk with bizarre instruments is out of place.

Evidence of internal injury at that age is prima facie evidence of abuse, and diagnosed as such in a medical situation would mandate immediate reporting to the relevant authorities.

.

I never said anything about bizarre instruments UKguy. I was simply suggesting that digital penetration via childhood masturbation might have been a theory offered to explain the chronic injuries. I don't think thats what happened but I think that it would have been brought up by the defence if the Ramsey's had ever been charged.