What evidence does the prosecution have?

[Dr.Fessel]

Retrieved [URL="http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_fl.htm]here[/URL], I'm sure there's a more technical version available somewhere, but this was one of the first results for "florida gun laws"


Also:


From: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000166/

Goes by the street names, speed, beenies, uppers.

 

[K_Z]

Intermediate range in regards to a gunshot wound is 6-30" with stippling according to this link. Can't help you with right or left handed.

http://www.pathologyexpert.com/boards/forensics/gsw.htm

More links with info:

Powder burns and stippling:

This link contains pics of GSW in clothing worn by victims who have been shot.
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_distanceGSR.htm

*Warning- this source contains links to autopsy pics of GSWs, which may be unsettling to some. The text contains no actual pictures.
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...NS/GUNINJ.html

 

[Dr.Fessel]

That is a pretty wide range---from 6 inches to 30 inches. If that is as close as the estimation gets, it is not very helpful.

The size of the powder burn on the hoodie will tell the story. The will do test with the same bullets Zimmerman used and test different distances till they get the same size pattern.

 

[Gayler99]

Retrieved

Also:

(snipped...)
From: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000166/

Is it possible that a diagnosis of ADHD would impair ones ability to handle a concealed firearm safely?

IMO.

I am not saying that GZ has ADHD as we have not seen his complete medical records yet. Just asking a question because of the drugs.

 

[AJ Noiter]

Is it possible that a diagnosis of ADHD would impair ones ability to handle a concealed firearm safely?

IMO.

I am not saying that GZ has ADHD as we have not seen his complete medical records yet. Just asking a question because of the drugs.

I highly doubt it. With that said, I am not a psych professional - I have only taken a few courses and even then I didn't really do much in the way of medicine.

 

[Gayler99]

Sorry duplicate post

 

[HiHater]

MSNBC says it was on his left ring finger.

Now I wonder if he was even left-handed.

 

[AngelWings444]

Is it possible that a diagnosis of ADHD would impair ones ability to handle a concealed firearm safely?

IMO.

I am not saying that GZ has ADHD as we have not seen his complete medical records yet. Just asking a question because of the drugs.

I don't think the diagnosis of ADHD would impair one's ability, but the medications alter your body. Adderall is like "speed." Some people use it to lose weight, some "kids" use it to help with tests, like SAT's and finals. JMO

 

[ariesgodofwar]

I don't think the diagnosis of ADHD would impair one's ability, but the medications alter your body. Adderall is like "speed." Some people use it to lose weight, some "kids" use it to help with tests, like SAT's and finals. JMO

I thought I would opine here, as someone who is both prescribed Adderall as well is rather well versed in close quarters combat and defensive pistol craft.

So, starting with Adderall. It is mixed amphetamine Salts, so yes, it is essentially speed. ADHD is an actual chemical imbalance in the brain. Typically evidenced by abnormally low dopamine levels in the synapses. If a person without abnormally low levels were to take Adderall, it would act as any stimulant does and the person would "speed" due to the excessive presence of neurotransmitters in the brain. However, for those like myself, it merely causes what is supposed to be there, to actually be there. I feel normal. In fact, I feel greatly less agitated and much more calm when I am on my medication. If fact, truth be told, our long distance Aviator's take the stimulant on mission, such as those B2 Pilots and others flying long distance missions. It heightens awareness and prevents drowsiness. 2 things you do not want when you are flying a half billion dollar aerial bombing platform. Adderall did not make GZ psychotic, a danger, or incapable of proper decision making assuming the medication was being taken at therapeutic levels. In fact, decision making capability is increased in ADHD patients.

As for the firearm and defensive pistol craft. I carry a firearm every day. Some things that are missed or ignored is that most who carry a firearm know the 20 foot rule. Meaning that anytime someone is within 20 feet, that they can cover the distance and attack you before you are able to draw and fire. So, as a result you do everything you can to prevent that from occurring. If GZ's intent was to draw down on TM and detain him, he would have done so with his weapon drawn. Meaning that GZ likely would not have let TM get close enough to swing. That and most folks, when faced with a firearm, will freeze.

I think it is clear by the evidence that there was stippling, per Investigator Gilbraith at the Bond Hearing. This is indicative of a very close range discharge. Much closer than anyone would reasonably be if they had a hand gun drawn and had a choice. I think this is clearly indicative that the engagement was not on GZ's terms. As for drawing the firearm, the Keltec is a very thin firearm.I do not know where George carried it (other than the reports that it was in his waistband). Most in-waistband carry is typically at the 5'oclock position, which is where I typically carry. If I was on my back, having my head beat as GZ alleges, I could very easily and quickly slightly shift my weight weakside, draw from concealment, and fire.

It was a good catch from another poster about the action not cycling and chambering a round. This could be a failure to cycle due to mechanical malfunction, however, the case was ejected, so likely not mechanical, as the rearward force will be unstoppable which is what pulls the case the ejector, but if there was a hand on the slide, this would possibly *advertiser censored* the cycling of the action and chambering of the next round.

Last point, while Zimmerman was involved in neighborhood watch, he was not patrolling at the time, he was going to the store. A gated community is private property, and as a property owner, GZ had every legal right to question Trayvon's presence on the private property.

 

[elementary]

I thought I would opine here, as someone who is both prescribed Adderall as well is rather well versed in close quarters combat and defensive pistol craft.

So, starting with Adderall. It is mixed amphetamine Salts, so yes, it is essentially speed. ADHD is an actual chemical imbalance in the brain. Typically evidenced by abnormally low dopamine levels in the synapses. If a person without abnormally low levels were to take Adderall, it would act as any stimulant does and the person would "speed" due to the excessive presence of neurotransmitters in the brain. However, for those like myself, it merely causes what is supposed to be there, to actually be there. I feel normal. In fact, I feel greatly less agitated and much more calm when I am on my medication. If fact, truth be told, our long distance Aviator's take the stimulant on mission, such as those B2 Pilots and others flying long distance missions. It heightens awareness and prevents drowsiness. 2 things you do not want when you are flying a half billion dollar aerial bombing platform. Adderall did not make GZ psychotic, a danger, or incapable of proper decision making assuming the medication was being taken at therapeutic levels. In fact, decision making capability is increased in ADHD patients.

As for the firearm and defensive pistol craft. I carry a firearm every day. Some things that are missed or ignored is that most who carry a firearm know the 20 foot rule. Meaning that anytime someone is within 20 feet, that they can cover the distance and attack you before you are able to draw and fire. So, as a result you do everything you can to prevent that from occurring. If GZ's intent was to draw down on TM and detain him, he would have done so with his weapon drawn. Meaning that GZ likely would not have let TM get close enough to swing. That and most folks, when faced with a firearm, will freeze.

I think it is clear by the evidence that there was stippling, per Investigator Gilbraith at the Bond Hearing. This is indicative of a very close range discharge. Much closer than anyone would reasonably be if they had a hand gun drawn and had a choice. I think this is clearly indicative that the engagement was not on GZ's terms. As for drawing the firearm, the Keltec is a very thin firearm.I do not know where George carried it (other than the reports that it was in his waistband). Most in-waistband carry is typically at the 5'oclock position, which is where I typically carry. If I was on my back, having my head beat as GZ alleges, I could very easily and quickly slightly shift my weight weakside, draw from concealment, and fire.

It was a good catch from another poster about the action not cycling and chambering a round. This could be a failure to cycle due to mechanical malfunction, however, the case was ejected, so likely not mechanical, as the rearward force will be unstoppable which is what pulls the case the ejector, but if there was a hand on the slide, this would possibly *advertiser censored* the cycling of the action and chambering of the next round.

Last point, while Zimmerman was involved in neighborhood watch, he was not patrolling at the time, he was going to the store. A gated community is private property, and as a property owner, GZ had every legal right to question Trayvon's presence on the private property.

Did he identify himself?

 

[jaded cat]

I thought I would opine here, as someone who is both prescribed Adderall as well is rather well versed in close quarters combat and defensive pistol craft.

So, starting with Adderall. It is mixed amphetamine Salts, so yes, it is essentially speed. ADHD is an actual chemical imbalance in the brain. Typically evidenced by abnormally low dopamine levels in the synapses. If a person without abnormally low levels were to take Adderall, it would act as any stimulant does and the person would "speed" due to the excessive presence of neurotransmitters in the brain. However, for those like myself, it merely causes what is supposed to be there, to actually be there. I feel normal. In fact, I feel greatly less agitated and much more calm when I am on my medication. If fact, truth be told, our long distance Aviator's take the stimulant on mission, such as those B2 Pilots and others flying long distance missions. It heightens awareness and prevents drowsiness. 2 things you do not want when you are flying a half billion dollar aerial bombing platform. Adderall did not make GZ psychotic, a danger, or incapable of proper decision making assuming the medication was being taken at therapeutic levels. In fact, decision making capability is increased in ADHD patients.

As for the firearm and defensive pistol craft. I carry a firearm every day. Some things that are missed or ignored is that most who carry a firearm know the 20 foot rule. Meaning that anytime someone is within 20 feet, that they can cover the distance and attack you before you are able to draw and fire. So, as a result you do everything you can to prevent that from occurring. If GZ's intent was to draw down on TM and detain him, he would have done so with his weapon drawn. Meaning that GZ likely would not have let TM get close enough to swing. That and most folks, when faced with a firearm, will freeze.

I think it is clear by the evidence that there was stippling, per Investigator Gilbraith at the Bond Hearing. This is indicative of a very close range discharge. Much closer than anyone would reasonably be if they had a hand gun drawn and had a choice. I think this is clearly indicative that the engagement was not on GZ's terms. As for drawing the firearm, the Keltec is a very thin firearm.I do not know where George carried it (other than the reports that it was in his waistband). Most in-waistband carry is typically at the 5'oclock position, which is where I typically carry. If I was on my back, having my head beat as GZ alleges, I could very easily and quickly slightly shift my weight weakside, draw from concealment, and fire.

It was a good catch from another poster about the action not cycling and chambering a round. This could be a failure to cycle due to mechanical malfunction, however, the case was ejected, so likely not mechanical, as the rearward force will be unstoppable which is what pulls the case the ejector, but if there was a hand on the slide, this would possibly *advertiser censored* the cycling of the action and chambering of the next round.

Last point, while Zimmerman was involved in neighborhood watch, he was not patrolling at the time, he was going to the store. A gated community is private property, and as a property owner, GZ had every legal right to question Trayvon's presence on the private property.

GZ was not a property owner, he rented.

 

[ariesgodofwar]

Did he identify himself?

On private property, at least where I live, there is no requirement that you identify yourself. However, there is also no legal requirement that TZ need respond, nor does it give one the right to detain another (not aware of any evidence that this was even the case). All I was saying is that George's presence was uncontestably lawful, and his inquiring into TZ's business on property to which he is a co-owner was indeed lawful should it have occurred.

 

[elementary]

GZ was not a property owner, he rented.

Thanks, I wondered about that property thing but have no experience in it. It's confusing because whom are we to believe about the putative legalities? It's also one thing to question someone entering the property, but it's another to pursue someone who is on the property when you have no idea if they live there or not.

 

[elementary]

On private property, at least where I live, there is no requirement that you identify yourself. However, there is also no legal requirement that TZ need respond, nor does it give one the right to detain another (not aware of any evidence that this was even the case). All I was saying is that George's presence was uncontestably lawful, and his inquiring into TZ's business on property to which he is a co-owner was indeed lawful should it have occurred.

Oh, okay, Thanks. Of course, GZ's presence was uncontestably lawful as was Trayvon's. His pursuit of Trayvon, IMO, is another question.

Was GZ a co-owner?

 

[ariesgodofwar]

GZ was not a property owner, he rented.

That is irrelevant as the owners interest would transfer as a result of the rental agreement (ie. George has a right to be on the private property on which the domicile he has a rental interest in is located. For example, you could not rent an apartment in a highrise and have the building owner prohibit you from the areas necessary to access your rental.

 

[AJ Noiter]

Thanks, I wondered about that property thing but have no experience in it. It's confusing because whom are we to believe about the putative legalities? It's also one thing to question someone entering the property, but it's another to pursue someone who is on the property when you have no idea if they live there or not.

If you take a look at the area in Google Earth/StreetView you'll see that the western section of land has nothing more than chicken wire for a fence. These pictures were as of January according to Google. Also, you'll find that in some areas the fence is no more than maybe 4ft tall. Just because it is a gated community doesn't mean they couldn't have gotten in via means other than the gate.

 

[Elley Mae]

I thought I would opine here, as someone who is both prescribed Adderall as well is rather well versed in close quarters combat and defensive pistol craft.

So, starting with Adderall. It is mixed amphetamine Salts, so yes, it is essentially speed. ADHD is an actual chemical imbalance in the brain. Typically evidenced by abnormally low dopamine levels in the synapses. If a person without abnormally low levels were to take Adderall, it would act as any stimulant does and the person would "speed" due to the excessive presence of neurotransmitters in the brain. However, for those like myself, it merely causes what is supposed to be there, to actually be there. I feel normal. In fact, I feel greatly less agitated and much more calm when I am on my medication. If fact, truth be told, our long distance Aviator's take the stimulant on mission, such as those B2 Pilots and others flying long distance missions. It heightens awareness and prevents drowsiness. 2 things you do not want when you are flying a half billion dollar aerial bombing platform. Adderall did not make GZ psychotic, a danger, or incapable of proper decision making assuming the medication was being taken at therapeutic levels. In fact, decision making capability is increased in ADHD patients.

As for the firearm and defensive pistol craft. I carry a firearm every day. Some things that are missed or ignored is that most who carry a firearm know the 20 foot rule. Meaning that anytime someone is within 20 feet, that they can cover the distance and attack you before you are able to draw and fire. So, as a result you do everything you can to prevent that from occurring. If GZ's intent was to draw down on TM and detain him, he would have done so with his weapon drawn. Meaning that GZ likely would not have let TM get close enough to swing. That and most folks, when faced with a firearm, will freeze.

I think it is clear by the evidence that there was stippling, per Investigator Gilbraith at the Bond Hearing. This is indicative of a very close range discharge. Much closer than anyone would reasonably be if they had a hand gun drawn and had a choice. I think this is clearly indicative that the engagement was not on GZ's terms. As for drawing the firearm, the Keltec is a very thin firearm.I do not know where George carried it (other than the reports that it was in his waistband). Most in-waistband carry is typically at the 5'oclock position, which is where I typically carry. If I was on my back, having my head beat as GZ alleges, I could very easily and quickly slightly shift my weight weakside, draw from concealment, and fire.

It was a good catch from another poster about the action not cycling and chambering a round. This could be a failure to cycle due to mechanical malfunction, however, the case was ejected, so likely not mechanical, as the rearward force will be unstoppable which is what pulls the case the ejector, but if there was a hand on the slide, this would possibly *advertiser censored* the cycling of the action and chambering of the next round.

Last point, while Zimmerman was involved in neighborhood watch, he was not patrolling at the time, he was going to the store. A gated community is private property, and as a property owner, GZ had every legal right to question Trayvon's presence on the private property.

Thank You for a very insightful post.

 

[Sun48shine]

I agree that the prosecution will have to try and explain Trayvon injury's as being defensive. The hard part will be fitting that in with the rest of the evidence. JMO.

Seems like the media is always misleading. Earlier reports reported scrapes to TM's knuckles, as if there were more. Now MSNBC describes that injury as 1/4 inch abrasion below the right ring finger knuckle. Does this change the possible theory of TM attacking GZ?

 

[vlpate]

I thought I would opine here, as someone who is both prescribed Adderall as well is rather well versed in close quarters combat and defensive pistol craft.

So, starting with Adderall. It is mixed amphetamine Salts, so yes, it is essentially speed. ADHD is an actual chemical imbalance in the brain. Typically evidenced by abnormally low dopamine levels in the synapses. If a person without abnormally low levels were to take Adderall, it would act as any stimulant does and the person would "speed" due to the excessive presence of neurotransmitters in the brain. However, for those like myself, it merely causes what is supposed to be there, to actually be there. I feel normal. In fact, I feel greatly less agitated and much more calm when I am on my medication. If fact, truth be told, our long distance Aviator's take the stimulant on mission, such as those B2 Pilots and others flying long distance missions. It heightens awareness and prevents drowsiness. 2 things you do not want when you are flying a half billion dollar aerial bombing platform. Adderall did not make GZ psychotic, a danger, or incapable of proper decision making assuming the medication was being taken at therapeutic levels. In fact, decision making capability is increased in ADHD patients.

As for the firearm and defensive pistol craft. I carry a firearm every day. Some things that are missed or ignored is that most who carry a firearm know the 20 foot rule. Meaning that anytime someone is within 20 feet, that they can cover the distance and attack you before you are able to draw and fire. So, as a result you do everything you can to prevent that from occurring. If GZ's intent was to draw down on TM and detain him, he would have done so with his weapon drawn. Meaning that GZ likely would not have let TM get close enough to swing. That and most folks, when faced with a firearm, will freeze.

I think it is clear by the evidence that there was stippling, per Investigator Gilbraith at the Bond Hearing. This is indicative of a very close range discharge. Much closer than anyone would reasonably be if they had a hand gun drawn and had a choice. I think this is clearly indicative that the engagement was not on GZ's terms. As for drawing the firearm, the Keltec is a very thin firearm.I do not know where George carried it (other than the reports that it was in his waistband). Most in-waistband carry is typically at the 5'oclock position, which is where I typically carry. If I was on my back, having my head beat as GZ alleges, I could very easily and quickly slightly shift my weight weakside, draw from concealment, and fire.

It was a good catch from another poster about the action not cycling and chambering a round. This could be a failure to cycle due to mechanical malfunction, however, the case was ejected, so likely not mechanical, as the rearward force will be unstoppable which is what pulls the case the ejector, but if there was a hand on the slide, this would possibly *advertiser censored* the cycling of the action and chambering of the next round.

Last point, while Zimmerman was involved in neighborhood watch, he was not patrolling at the time, he was going to the store. A gated community is private property, and as a property owner, GZ had every legal right to question Trayvon's presence on the private property.

:goodpost: Thank you for explaining the medication perfectly. It won't stop the speculation, but at least those interested will understand it better. Welcome to the fourm!

 

[Sun48shine]

:goodpost: Thank you for explaining the medication perfectly. It won't stop the speculation, but at least those interested will understand it better. Welcome to the fourm!

I can't remember the name of the other medication that GZ was prescribed prior to the shooting but a combination of both meds can lead to mood swings if nit taken as prescribed. I will try to find that link.