What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?

[GrainneDhu]

If TH was threatening suicide, she would have been taken to a hospital for observation at the very least.

I don't think in this situation, people would have shrugged it off, if they ever do.

Maybe. If she threatened suicide to Kaine and then denied she was thinking about it when LE got there, then it is a "he said, she said" situation.

Unless Oregon is very, very different from my state, they probably have a shortage of beds in psych units. I know in my state, LE is reluctant to take anyone in for a psych evaluation if they are denying any intention to harm themselves or to harm anyone else.

It is far from unheard of for someone to threaten suicide in the heat of the moment and then, when they've calmed down a bit, to deny any intention of hurting themselves. They aren't necessarily lying; it can be simply a matter of them coming to their senses.

I think all that anyone can really infer is that when LE responded to the 911 call, no one threatened suicide in front of the responding officers.

 

[Haeve]

<snip>
Unless Oregon is very, very different from my state, they probably have a shortage of beds in psych units. <snip>

Nope, not different at all.

 

[GrainneDhu]

They do it everyday across the country in these emergency restraining orders. All you need to do is get up in front of a judge and swear to stuff that might be true or a lie but the judge has to grant it as long as you say the right thing.

Now in the hearing coming up on the restraining order both sides will have to give evidence to their side of the story.

That is how they do it in my state.

Additionally, if someone alleges something in their application for a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) and cannot provide supporting evidence during the hearing or is shown to be lying, they can be ordered to pay all the court costs for the hearing, they can be found in contempt or various other unpleasant consequences. It is meant to provide a disincentive to lie in order to get a TRO.

However, the fact is that people do lie on their TRO applications.

The process is an attempt to balance the protection of victims against the rights of the accused. No one wants to deny a victim protection under the law but no one wants to facilitate denying someone their rights, either.

So the state made it relatively easy to get a TRO; all you have to do is fill out a form and make certain types of allegations. The person that the TRO is granted against can ask for a hearing and it must be granted within five days of their request.

At the hearing is where the person applying for the TRO must bring evidence to support their allegations. They can bring in stuff like police reports, medical reports, witnesses, letters, emails, diaries, etc, to support their claims. The person who was the target of the TRO presents their side of the story.

The judge examines the evidence and makes a decision about the TRO. They can revoke it, extend it, add more clauses, basically anything. There is always an end date to the RO. Plus, the target can also appeal the judge's order.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Maybe. If she threatened suicide to Kaine and then denied she was thinking about it when LE got there, then it is a "he said, she said" situation.

I wanted to add to my own post.

The above assumes that when LE arrives on the scene, the person threatening suicide seems lucid and rational. If the person is raving or is obviously not in contact with consensus reality, then everything changes.

But if LE gets a call about someone threatening suicide, arrives and the person seems rational, they don't always act on the report of the threat.

This can be very, very frustrating to the person who made the initial report. It is frustrating to everyone.

 

[carole]

Edited to focus on my question.

LOL! Is there video of this? What did the principal say wrong? I must have missed it. The principal is Mr Benjamin, right? But we've mostly heard from PISD from, is it Matt Shelby, I believe?

It was in the first few days in a press conference - the principal said "criminal investigation" and the LE there quickly jumped in and there was no more from the principal. Well before LE said criminal investigation.

 

[human]

That is how they do it in my state.

Additionally, if someone alleges something in their application for a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) and cannot provide supporting evidence during the hearing or is shown to be lying, they can be ordered to pay all the court costs for the hearing, they can be found in contempt or various other unpleasant consequences. It is meant to provide a disincentive to lie in order to get a TRO.

However, the fact is that people do lie on their TRO applications.

The process is an attempt to balance the protection of victims against the rights of the accused. No one wants to deny a victim protection under the law but no one wants to facilitate denying someone their rights, either.

So the state made it relatively easy to get a TRO; all you have to do is fill out a form and make certain types of allegations. The person that the TRO is granted against can ask for a hearing and it must be granted within five days of their request.

At the hearing is where the person applying for the TRO must bring evidence to support their allegations. They can bring in stuff like police reports, medical reports, witnesses, letters, emails, diaries, etc, to support their claims. The person who was the target of the TRO presents their side of the story.

The judge examines the evidence and makes a decision about the TRO. They can revoke it, extend it, add more clauses, basically anything. There is always an end date to the RO. Plus, the target can also appeal the judge's order.

Yup. But the judge has sealed this one because of the impact on an investigation.

That brings it to a whole new level.

We even have RO's printed in our daily paper. If there are minors in the situation, they are listed as "minors OBO" ( I don't know what OBO is.)

In my job as a former teacher, I had RO's presented . In a couple of days, many times it was null and void because the person who requested it had contact with the other individual. That would negate it.

I just see this RO as a whole different ballgame.

 

[human]

Re the suicide situation. This particular situation is not your ordinary situation by any stretch of the imagination.

I think if there was any talk of it, LE would have jumped right on it no matter what anyone said when they arrived there.

I just don't think that's what it's all about.

 

[Pensfan]

Most cases LE has nothing to do with getting the initial emergency restraining order.

They probably never even knew he was doing that.

If you were the judge that was handed Kaine's paperwork, wouldn't you call someone in authority over at the sheriff's office? The entire nation would hold this judge responsible if KH went home with the toddler and committed filicide/suicide. (IMO, if the judge was sane, he talked to a supervisor in the sheriff's office or a FBI agent before sending the toddler home with a newly famous, potential homicidal child killer.)

 

[Nikolai]

If Kaine is involved then I think Terry's involved, and him leaving her and divorcing her I highly doubt would happen in that case, unless its planned for some reason, which I doubt. Theres a chance he could be involved alone, but the police know more than us, and dont seem to think he's involved at all for some reason. He may have a good alibi and passed a polygraph, who really knows.

 

[socalgal2]

*parts quoted were snipped by me from the article.

FWIW and it certanly adds some insight to the events of Kaine leaving with baby K that day,, In he current People Mag. article that just came out yesterday, there is a quote "Terri told a friend that she was called to speak to investigators and when she came back home, Kaine and their daughter were already gone.
She didn't understand it, says the friend. They've taken the last thing she has left that's important".

IMHO It seems to me that that was indeed co-ordinated and LE was involved.

So these 911 calls were after Kaine was already gone and maybe Terri called 911 since she had no idea?

 

[Pensfan]

I wanted to add to my own post.

The above assumes that when LE arrives on the scene, the person threatening suicide seems lucid and rational. If the person is raving or is obviously not in contact with consensus reality, then everything changes.

But if LE gets a call about someone threatening suicide, arrives and the person seems rational, they don't always act on the report of the threat.

This can be very, very frustrating to the person who made the initial report. It is frustrating to everyone.

If the spouse claims that the individual is suicidal, LE will make every effort to get that person into an ER for an evaluation. In my city, LE won't leave the residence for a long time until they have attempted to talk the individual into voluntarily getting a psych evaluation. Many LE officers are very good negotiators.

 

[Pensfan]

FWIW and it certanly adds some insight to the events of Kaine leaving with baby K that day,, In he current People Mag. article that just came out yesterday, there is a quote "Terri told a friend that she was called to speak to investigators and when she came back home, Kaine and their daughter were already gone.
She didn't understand it, says the friend. They've taken the last thing she has left that's important".

IMHO It seems to me that that was indeed co-ordinated and LE was involved.

So these 911 calls were after Kaine was already gone and maybe Terri called 911 since she had no idea.

I think after the first 911 call that lasted 11? minutes, Kaine called the sheriff's office to tell them that he was going to leave and take the toddler. LE then called Terri to come down for an interview to get her out of the home so Kaine could leave with his child without an incident.

 

[Pensfan]

Nope, not different at all.

When units are filled to capacity, hospitals will leave the psych patients in the ER until a bed is available (patients are discharged or roommates reassigned.)
An employee is assigned to sit with any patient that is on suicide watch (in the ER waiting to be admitted upstairs).

 

[socalgal2]

I think after the first 911 call that lasted 11? minutes, Kaine called the sheriff's office to tell them that he was going to leave and take the toddler. LE then called Terri to come down for an interview to get her out of the home so Kaine could leave with his child without an incident.

This would make sense , but to me it falls into the whole MO that the LE has been doing,closing in and circling the troops so to speak around Terri.



The quote I posted in my OP is what Terri's friend told the reporter that Terri told her about what went on.:angel:

 

[DairyGirl]

I really don't think Kaine is involved at all. I am sure LE has checked his cell phones, did a LDT and all the things that they supposedly have done with Terri. Here is what I think. If Terri did this there had to be some signs. Maybe not to her friends and family but I don't think she could fool her husband. He lived with her and maybe he had seen disturbing behavior, maybe abusive behavior towards Kyron and didn't take any action. Maybe he is feeling guilty for not doing anything before it came to this point. Also, it was said that Kaine left on the advice of LE. If they suspected him I am sure they wouldn't be telling him to grab the baby and run.
His behavior since Kyron went missing might just be a combination of his personality, shock at the situation he's in and guilt over not taking action over things earlier.

 

[mtnone]

*parts quoted were snipped by me from the article.

FWIW and it certanly adds some insight to the events of Kaine leaving with baby K that day,, In he current People Mag. article that just came out yesterday, there is a quote "Terri told a friend that she was called to speak to investigators and when she came back home, Kaine and their daughter were already gone.
She didn't understand it, says the friend. They've taken the last thing she has left that's important".

IMHO It seems to me that that was indeed co-ordinated and LE was involved.

So these 911 calls were after Kaine was already gone and maybe Terri called 911 since she had no idea.

I don't think that makes any sense, (not that any of this does) since the paper work said Kaine moved out on Friday. The 911 calls were late on Saturday. If he was already moved out, who was threatening who at the house if only she and her parents were there? What was the custody issue if they were already gone the day before?

I read a rumor somewhere early last week that someone drove down their road, saw Terri getting mail at the mailbox and a moving van in the driveway. I think they said this was Saturday. Rumor only.

Of course on Friday Kaine is saying in an interview that he believes TH is dedicated to finding Kyron.

On Sunday TH is telling reporters that Kaine hasn't moved out at all, it's just a rumor.

By late Monday we have her friends gathered out front of the house and one saying Terri was blindsided by the divorce filing and the RO.

If he took the baby and moved on Friday or even Saturday, how on earth could she be all the surprised by the paper work on Monday?

I might be wrong, but I do believe every single thing we have been told by someone that KH as said has turned out be wrong at best, a lie at worst. Even the few words she has spoken for herself.

Soooo, now that we have that all cleared up :banghead:

 

[socalgal2]

I don't think that makes any sense, (not that any of this does) since the paper work said Kaine moved out on Friday. The 911 calls were late on Saturday. If he was already moved out, who was threatening who at the house if only she and her parents were there? What was the custody issue if they were already gone the day before?

I read a rumor somewhere early last week that someone drove down their road, saw Terri getting mail at the mailbox and a moving van in the driveway. I think they said this was Saturday. Rumor only.

Of course on Friday Kaine is saying in an interview that he believes TH is dedicated to finding Kyron.

On Sunday TH is telling reporters that Kaine hasn't moved out at all, it's just a rumor.

By late Monday we have her friends gathered out front of the house and one saying Terri was blindsided by the divorce filing and the RO.

If he took the baby and moved on Friday or even Saturday, how on earth could she be all the surprised by the paper work on Monday?

I might be wrong, but I do believe every single thing we have been told by someone that KH as said has turned out be wrong at best, a lie at worst. Even the few words she has spoken for herself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kaine went to the Lawyer Friday, Ir can't be ready that day so it makes the docs ready the next day. and the 911 calls, it seems that she might had no clue and was frantic. The 911 call about women in a driveway, the 911 about custody-handled over the phone. This make the 911 call make sense to me in Imo.

 

[captivagrl]

IMO Kaine was and is behaving like a husband that can't believe his wife is lying to LE. I don't think the marriage was on great terms before this because he heard "something" from "someone" last Saturday that made him act drastically. He gave her no chance to explain. He wanted to be physically and legally severed. The fact that the judge granted the RO with regard to the baby girl speaks volumes, IMO. Just 24 hrs before, on Friday, on national TV he still stated, along with Kyron's mother, that they were all working together.

 

[captivagrl]

And, just to add... if there is no arrest TH will file a motion to at least visit with her child. Parents are accused and even convicted of very bad crimes but they are still granted supervised visits with their biological children.

 

[mtnone]

:[/quote but I don't remember reading that he took baby K and moved out Friday. I think he moved out Sat. As for Teri's behavior and the 911 calls, it seems that she might had no clue and was frantic. The 911 call about women in a driveway, the 911 about custody-handled over the phone. This make the 911 call make sense to me in Imo.

Yes, you're right, I got my dates mixed up. The papers say he moved on Sat.

Still makes no sense that she said all was great and he hadn't. It also makes her friend saying she was blindsided by the divorce papers seem, ummm, less than truthful.