What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?

[oxymoran]

How does one go about proving their lack of involvement?

By providing corroborating evidence...eye-witness/electronic etc...to show you were doing something, the timing of which is mutually exclusive with your direct involvement with the execution of the crime ie you have an alibi.

OTOH...I accept that such an alibi does not prove you were not involved in the commissioning/planning of the crime.

 

[JBean]

How does one go about proving their lack of involvement?

IF you mean in a legal sense as in a court of law,they don't have to. The burden of proof would be on the state to show that the person was involved.

 

[ClueMeIn]

, try not to notice that weird thing you're doing with your eyes, I'm just gonna look at the floor...

:::giggle:::

OK, back to being serious, but that was funny!

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I was thinking with the 911 calls.I think it speaks volumes that when LE came during the first call.The child was not taken out of the home immediately and child protective custody called in right there and then.I feel maybe LE thought it was a domestic dispute and it was mutual fighting between them and left?The 2nd call I feel was when He possibly could have been leaving with the child and LE could not do anything about that.It was a legal matter?He is going to have to have the burden of proof in any thing he presents to the judge.The fact LE left during the first 911 call shows me possibly they did not feel a real danger existed.I personally feel it does not show a man of character to go behind her back and serve divorce papers.IMHO.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

OTOH...I accept that such an alibi does not prove you were not involved in the commissioning/planning of the crime.

Innocence can be impossible to prove. For example, say I were sleeping on the couch on the first floor of my house, and everyone else in my family was asleep upstairs. I am on the couch because I fell asleep while reading, which doesn't happen often.

My child disappears during the night. There are no signs of forced entry and LE can find no indication that the child was abducted by anyone outside the family. They can find no physical evidence which pertains to the child's disappearance from my home. The child has vanished into thin air.

There is evidence that this child was a lot of trouble to me and people thought the child was my least favorite one because of the way I treated the child or because of things I have said. None of these things rise to level of child abuse or neglect. I just get so weary having to deal with the problems this child has, on top of everything else. Sometimes I confide my feelings and thoughts to my friends (venting and wanting someone to understand) and sometimes I do get impatient.

To top it off, I have a large amount of life insurance on the child and I am the sole beneficiary. It was cheap to buy, and I bought it because I was worried about the high cost of funeral expenses, should they arise, due to my limited income. My father advised me to do this and to buy a lot since it was cheap. When the other children came along, I bought insurance on them, but I couldn't afford to buy more than $10,000 on each.

I am a single parent, I make just enough money to get by, have no boyfriend, all three of my children are under age 6, the father of my children lives far away and has a solid alibi and we get along fine, and AFAIK I have no enemies or stalkers or people who are mad at me. I have no criminal record and have never been reported to DSS.

I have a bachelor's degree in English and I manage a doctor's office. My favorite books are complex murder mysteries and my favorite t.v. shows are crime shows, especially CSI, and I only watch t.v. when the kids are asleep.

I am completely innocent. How do I prove it?

 

[ClueMeIn]

I am completely innocent. How do I prove it?
__________________

Book em' Danno!

 

[eyes4crime]

Kaine is an architectural engineer so by nature he is logical, exact and organized person, as exact as the calculus and physics courses he had to take to become what he is.

Trying to apply logic and ground rules to the media, and determining the criteria for what a 'team player' is, Kaine, and Kaine alone, has managed to refocus the public eye off of his missing son and onto himself.

With that said - I say get him off the stage! Let Desiree manage the press conferences. Her words are heartfelt, sincere, and resonate with people everywhere; she extracts compassion from the public, not scrutiny. Her agenda is clear and simple - she wants her son back - end of story.

Another huge plus for Desiree is that she appears to have 100% support from her LE detective husband and of course, he has the backing of LE everywhere. Please get off the stage Kaine and know that it does matter how one is perceived by the public. I have no doubt you are in crisis and in pain over your missing son, but please step aside for now. moo mho mhho

 

[JBean]

Innocence can be impossible to prove. For example, say I were sleeping on the couch on the first floor of my house, and everyone else in my family was asleep upstairs. I am on the couch because I fell asleep while reading, which doesn't happen often.

My child disappears during the night. There are no signs of forced entry and LE can find no indication that the child was abducted by anyone outside the family. They can find no physical evidence which pertains to the child's disappearance from my home. The child has vanished into thin air.

There is evidence that this child was a lot of trouble to me and people thought the child was my least favorite one because of the way I treated the child or because of things I have said. None of these things rise to level of child abuse or neglect. I just get so weary having to deal with the problems this child has, on top of everything else. Sometimes I confide my feelings and thoughts to my friends (venting and wanting someone to understand) and sometimes I do get impatient.

To top it off, I have a large amount of life insurance on the child and I am the sole beneficiary. It was cheap to buy, and I bought it because I was worried about the high cost of funeral expenses, should they arise, due to my limited income. My father advised me to do this and to buy a lot since it was cheap. When the other children came along, I bought insurance on them, but I couldn't afford to buy more than $10,000 on each.

I am a single parent, I make just enough money to get by, have no boyfriend, all three of my children are under age 6, the father of my children lives far away and has a solid alibi and we get along fine, and AFAIK I have no enemies or stalkers or people who are mad at me. I have no criminal record and have never been reported to DSS.

I have a bachelor's degree in English and I manage a doctor's office. My favorite books are complex murder mysteries and my favorite t.v. shows are crime shows, especially CSI, and I only watch t.v. when the kids are asleep.

I am completely innocent. How do I prove it?

Generally speaking and assuming you are pleading not guilty,you are not required to show that you didn't do it, the state is required to show that you DID do it.
They would have to show beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty. if they cannot show it, then you do not have to do anything. You can rest your case, but this is another topic entirely LOL

ETA: we cannot comment on how or if you would defend yourself, until we know how the state is going to prove you did it.

 

[aprilshowers]

Innocence can be impossible to prove. For example, say I were sleeping on the couch on the first floor of my house, and everyone else in my family was asleep upstairs. I am on the couch because I fell asleep while reading, which doesn't happen often.

My child disappears during the night. There are no signs of forced entry and LE can find no indication that the child was abducted by anyone outside the family. They can find no physical evidence which pertains to the child's disappearance from my home. The child has vanished into thin air.

There is evidence that this child was a lot of trouble to me and people thought the child was my least favorite one because of the way I treated the child or because of things I have said. None of these things rise to level of child abuse or neglect. I just get so weary having to deal with the problems this child has, on top of everything else. Sometimes I confide my feelings and thoughts to my friends (venting and wanting someone to understand) and sometimes I do get impatient.

To top it off, I have a large amount of life insurance on the child and I am the sole beneficiary. It was cheap to buy, and I bought it because I was worried about the high cost of funeral expenses, should they arise, due to my limited income. My father advised me to do this and to buy a lot since it was cheap. When the other children came along, I bought insurance on them, but I couldn't afford to buy more than $10,000 on each.

I am a single parent, I make just enough money to get by, have no boyfriend, all three of my children are under age 6, the father of my children lives far away and has a solid alibi and we get along fine, and AFAIK I have no enemies or stalkers or people who are mad at me. I have no criminal record and have never been reported to DSS.

I have a bachelor's degree in English and I manage a doctor's office. My favorite books are complex murder mysteries and my favorite t.v. shows are crime shows, especially CSI, and I only watch t.v. when the kids are asleep.

I am completely innocent. How do I prove it?

I say we start a thread on this topic .... very interesting me thinks. How DOES one actually prove their innocence ... when not guilty, yet it looks as all heck, they are?

 

[1Chump]

"What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?"

For me, the fact that he left TH when he felt she wasn't cooperating with LE. And he took his baby girl to protect her.

IMO, my initial response to hearing about the divroce/RO was "he is brilliant." Either he was taking advantage of the situation by filing for a planned divorce and insuring himself custody or to cast suspicion on the SM. Then I had to ask why the need to cast suspicion on the SM except to deflect suspicioun from him.

It was the divorce filing that "raised" my eyebrows. There was no need to file for divorce at this time. By filing for divorce, he made it public. He could have filed for a RO which would have been sealed from the public due to the involvement of the minor child. With the media missing him moving out, they had no idea there were problems in that marriage until the divorce was filed. The divorce filing is what lead to the reasons for the RO. Without the divorce filing, the RO could have been spun as threats/harassment by an unknown. The media found out about that filing too quickly. In my experience, the only time the media finds out that quickly about a court filing is when they have been tipped off.

Until then I had never given him much thought.

Just my opinion.

 

[1Chump]

If it has anything to do with a medical issue yes.

Is it medical issue or pschiatrict issue? I don't know Oregon law but in CA psychiatrict issues are protected under the Constitution. 911 tapes involving psych issues are not released. However, 911 tapes involving medical issues are released.

 

[sofia76]

I say we start a thread on this topic .... very interesting me thinks. How DOES one actually prove their innocence ... when not guilty, yet it looks as all heck, they are?

You can't. That's why in the US, one doesn't have to prove innocence, only guilt (beyond a reasonable doubt).

 

[1Chump]

Well, I don't know how easy it is. I tried to get one against a teenager once and nothing happened. He was climbing into my house by a second story deck, among other things. The kid was quite well connected in my city-his uncle was a big time judge. Maybe that's why.

Anyway, this one has been sealed because it might impact an investigation. That is so totally different.

I would think that a judge would have to ask LE some questions before doing something like that. But how would I know for sure? I don't.

IMO, We do not know that it is sealed because of the investigation. IMO, that is horrible speculation by the media. The RO involves a minor child which is most likely why it is sealed. Family law records involving minors are sealed from the public to protect the minor.

IMO, the divorce is public and the proceedings are open the public. But the child custody part is sealed and the proceedings are closed. RO's fall under the Family Court. As the RO involves a minor, it should be sealed just as the custody part is sealed.

 

[sofia76]

IMO, We do not know that it is sealed because of the investigation. IMO, that is horrible speculation by the media. The RO involves a minor child which is most likely why it is sealed. Family law records involving minors are sealed from the public to protect the minor.

IMO, the divorce is public and the proceedings are open the public. But the child custody part is sealed and the proceedings are closed. RO's fall under the Family Court. As the RO involves a minor, it should be sealed just as the custody part is sealed.

We do know why it's sealed. Well, not specifically. But the judge said it could interfere with the investigation.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5362380&postcount=889"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5362380&postcount=889[/ame]

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I say we start a thread on this topic .... very interesting me thinks. How DOES one actually prove their innocence ... when not guilty, yet it looks as all heck, they are?

This would be especially important if the investigation were focused upon one person, which would derail LE resources from being put to their best use.

 

[Cher352]

And that could be the exact reaction he was seeking.

Remember the engineer on the first Spector trial. He was also a very controlling type person.

My husband is a engineer and is anything BUT a controlling type person.

Seriously - thats one heck of a generalisation.

I am sorry if it appeared to be generalizing that all engineers act this way but I was just reminding people of all the discussion on engineers that was done when Spector's first trial resulted in a hung jury. In that case he was a very controlling person..IMO

 

[scrunchngo]

IMO, We do not know that it is sealed because of the investigation. IMO, that is horrible speculation by the media. The RO involves a minor child which is most likely why it is sealed. Family law records involving minors are sealed from the public to protect the minor.

IMO, the divorce is public and the proceedings are open the public. But the child custody part is sealed and the proceedings are closed. RO's fall under the Family Court. As the RO involves a minor, it should be sealed just as the custody part is sealed.

BBM - We do know that is the reason stated by both KH's attorney and the judge. Scroll to the bottom under Also Friday

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/search_for_kyron_horman_costs.html


A consortium of news agencies, including The Oregonian, failed Friday to persuade a Multnomah County judge to unseal Kaine Horman's petition for a restraining order against his wife and the order itself.

Circuit Judge Keith Meisenheimer decided that the right of Kaine and Terri Horman to be heard on the issue outweighed the public's right to know immediately what's in the restraining order and the documents supporting it.

He continued the hearing until July 13 so lawyers for the estranged couple could respond.

Prosecutors argued in an affidavit that disclosing the contents of Kaine Horman's petition would have the "significant potential" to harm the criminal investigation into the second-grader's disappearance.

The judge seemed to agree, saying that the public does not want the court to release any information that would "compromise the safe recovery of Kyron Horman."


Also, IMO the hearing scheduled for July 13 is a continuation of the petition filed by the "consortium of news agencies" to unseal the order. It is NOT a hearing for TH to respond to whatever it is in the RO that is not allowing her to see her child. Two different issues, therefore I would think, two different hearings.

 

[evelyn24]

Like Kaine may be trying to railroad his wife? The thought has crossed my mind as well. If he wanted to divorce Terri and she refused? He did not seem supportive of his wife at all and he must have known people were pointing the finger at her. Did he bear hug Tony at the first press release? I have to watch that again to be sure. JMO

So he kills his son and railroads his wife into take the fall, and fools all of LE in the process, and all in order to finally get a divorce?

ok

Isn't the most simple explanation that he actually has GUTS and common sense unseen in so many of these cases where the spouse or parents stand by the accused and deny deny deny when a child is missing or murdered? Maybe you're seeing a man who actually believes whatever the LE is telling him and truly does fear for his daughter's life, and THAT is why he hasn't been supportive since the beginning of this case, and finally left TH. Maybe there was stuff going on in the house that bothered him before Kyron went missing, like TH playing favorites, or TH being mean to Kryon over little things, you know? Maybe he saw signs that she was jealous of him being around ever since her "real" daughter was born.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

You can't. That's why in the US, one doesn't have to prove innocence, only guilt (beyond a reasonable doubt).

That is in a court of law.

What if you are the main suspect and you are innocent? Wouldn't you want to be able to prove that you didn't have anything to do with the crime, so LE could put their resources to solving it? Wouldn't you be afraid that you would be arrested eventually, or that the perp would go free? Wouldn't you be concerned if your reputation and the trust your family and friends had in you was being eroded?

In that situation, I think an innocent person would have good reason to despair if they could not prove their innocence.

 

[human]

I was thinking with the 911 calls.I think it speaks volumes that when LE came during the first call.The child was not taken out of the home immediately and child protective custody called in right there and then.I feel maybe LE thought it was a domestic dispute and it was mutual fighting between them and left?The 2nd call I feel was when He possibly could have been leaving with the child and LE could not do anything about that.It was a legal matter?He is going to have to have the burden of proof in any thing he presents to the judge.The fact LE left during the first 911 call shows me possibly they did not feel a real danger existed.I personally feel it does not show a man of character to go behind her back and serve divorce papers.IMHO.

what if the man of no character truly believed the woman took his child and did something with that child?