What IS Terri GUILTY of?

[Shadowboy]

Tried to post this story from the Seattle area in the "Murder for Hire" thread. But that thread is locked. Thought this case might illustrate how 1) someone tries to connect to a hit-person and 2) how a "successful" sting comes down.

http://www.seattlepi.com/sound/434873_sound115335134.html

 

[wvjules]

I think if she had been having an affair with another man there would be a phone record of it somewhere. She just wasn't that careful with her texting. :twocents:

Well along with that line of thinking, why haven't they been able to find enough phone/texting/email evidence of a plot to get rid of Kyron and/or Kaine?

I don't know how in one post someone can say she's a master maniuplator and able to hide a murder for 8 months (paraphrasing) but in another post say she's not careful when it comes to cummunicating. Which is it? She's either careful or she's not? :waitasec:

 

[stmarysmead]

Well along with that line of thinking, why haven't they been able to find enough phone/texting/email evidence of a plot to get rid of Kyron and/or Kaine?

I don't know how in one post someone can say she's a master maniuplator and able to hide a murder for 8 months (paraphrasing) but in another post say she's not careful when it comes to cummunicating. Which is it? She's either careful or she's not? :waitasec:

No. There is another way to view this IMO.

One need not be a "master manipulator" to do a fairly competent job of succeeding in murdering a small child to whom you have unlimited access.

Terri knew the school. She knew the chaos that would exist that day. She knew the wilderness of Sauvie Island. She knew Kyron loved and trusted her. She knew Kaine would give her the truck if she used the science project excuse. She knew that Baby K would make a great "prop"...allowing her to murder the little boy in front of her ...then concoct an alibi of "driving around" that exploited her own child so that she could succeed at murder.

That's not any difficult, complicated plan: that's the plan of a woman operating on home turf. Terri is no mastermind...she need not be. She just took good advantage of the opportunities she had...and had the confidence to think her chances were great.

But she was also not smart in other ways. She thinks she has such sexual control over men that she was no doubt astounded to have two of the recipients of her "favors" rat her out: The Landscaper and her post murder sexting friend. I believe Terri manipulated with sex her whole adult life. That is IMO why Kaine looked the other way to her drinking. Terri believed she had these men in such LUST for her...that her other dirty secrets would not be revealed by them.

Wrong again.

Dede may be another one she controls sexually. She seems to have a better grip there...but might wonder how long.

I believe her "carelessness" about her sexual seaminess was really just her attempt to keep others under control. She needs to control to have her secrets be safe. Or to manipulate. I still would like to know who is paying Houze.

So she can be both a competent child murderess and an over-confident sexual exploiter...all at once. She is not dumb enough to put plot details in texts...but she had to keep sexting, etc...to keep her "posse" under control.

She has been described as very organized. That fits too.

 

[Trident]

Who is Terri? Hmmm, let's see. While Kaine and Desiree search for the answers to their beloved son's disappearance. holding fundraisers to promote awareness, go to work to support their seperate households and other children, cooperate with LE, etc...Terri (at 40 years of age) sits quietly in her retired parents home, not working, not cooperating with LE, with a high profile attorney sitting in the shadows (even though she has been charged with zip) collecting child support for her almost adult son from someone other than his bio dad.

I have a real hard time believing she is the MOST UNLUCKY innocent person in the world. In fact, I'd bet on her guilt if I was a betting woman.

I'd like to know what people think TH is guilty OF, not necessarily who she is 'cause I don't believe any of us know enough about her to make a fair assessment.

Since I don't believe she killed Kyron or handed him off, I'm trying to figure out why she is so closed-mouthed, as if she is guilty of SOMETHING. However, the more I think about it, the more I remember that none of the family said a word for a week, until the first press conference. I wonder why that was. If my child were missing, I would have been screaming from the rooftops.

I believe there is something here we're all missing, and TH is catching the rap for it. That said, her keeping silent does make her look guilty "of something", but maybe she's just being smart and keeping her mouth shut like a good client.

And yet. . .I wonder what LE found out that they wish they hadn't.

My opinion only

 

[Aedrys]

For me, it's not just the silence. It's how long she's been silent. I just don't think a normal person would be able to be silent this long without breaking down and having to be institutionalized or wanting to shout from the rooftops and clear their name. I know those are both extremes, but what bothers is me is not that she's being silent, but that she seems content to be silent, not bothered at all that she's being looked at for the murder of a child, just willing to sit there and be silent no matter how long it takes or until LE gets something on her to arrest her with. Now, I don't know this for a face, but surely if she were causing trouble or police were called to her home, we would have heard about it over the scanner or it would have made the news. She has never made the news or the scanner for anything regarding her living at her parent's home since she moved in with them. Is not that odd to anyone else?

Now we don't know what goes on in that home, but to me, she seems to be way too comfortable. She's not only been silent but completely away from the public as well. I mean look, we got snow last week and I was housebound for two days before almost going nuts. It took me two more days to get the driveway cleared out, but I was so happy to get out of the house in my car, even if the roadways were still hazardous. I couldn't stand being trapped in my home and unable to go anywhere. Yet TH seems to not have a problem with that. How has she not gone stir crazy at this point? How can she so quiet it's like she's disappeared herself?

I would think if she's really innocent and enraged, being silent and trapped inside of her parents home would be the last thing she would want to do for what, going on eight, nine months now? This person who had mucho freedom before this when she was a housewife and could basically have a separate life during the day and do what she wants is okay with having nothing and doing nothing now, not even doing anything online? Something just isn't right with that picture. Could any of us last this long at home, never leaving, never speaking to anyone but our family and lawyer? That is what bothers me and makes her look very guilty to me.

No one is willing to give up everything, their whole life, to sit in a house and never leave it, never talk to anyone but the people in their house and their lawyers, and never have any sort of life again, except for TH. I can't believe she isn't suicidal by this point or hasn't tried to take her life. If she's innocent, the only person she's hurting here is herself. The investigation isn't stopping, the searches aren't stopping, everything is going on around her and she's the only one silent and stopping her life, hoping that LE never knocks on her door to arrest her. She thinks being silent will save her, that if she never says anything, she'll never get caught, and this mess will just go away. But this is kidnapping and murder, a still missing child we're talking about. That is never going to just go away because she refuses to talk.

Also, I have news for her. I just watched a case on TV last night where a double police shooting was finally solved after 46 YEARS, thanks to new technology, a finger print that was taken 46 years earlier, and a scar from a bullet fired by one of the policeman that was killed that hit the killer in his back. Unbelievable. The man got life, and he was in his seventies. So if you think being silent is going to save you, Terri, you're wrong. One day, they will come for you, no matter how long it takes. LE doesn't give up, and neither does justice.

 

[Michael25]

And yet. . .I wonder what LE found out that they wish they hadn't.

From the moment I heard that I was thinking he meant things we don't even want to know about that were discovered in the process of investigating (i.e. skeletons in the closet, things the "red squirrel" would be red in the face about, etc.) In other words, things in her private life that were probably best left private. It's odd how we can interpret things in so many ways, all of them equally valid.

IMO, I at least believe this...she wasn't the best stepmother, and on at least one trip to school she was neglectful in not making sure her stepson really did make it to class.

 

[stmarysmead]

For me, it's not just the silence. It's how long she's been silent. I just don't think a normal person would be able to be silent this long without breaking down and having to be institutionalized or wanting to shout from the rooftops and clear their name. I know those are both extremes, but what bothers is me is not that she's being silent, but that she seems content to be silent, not bothered at all that she's being looked at for the murder of a child, just willing to sit there and be silent no matter how long it takes or until LE gets something on her to arrest her with. Now, I don't know this for a face, but surely if she were causing trouble or police were called to her home, we would have heard about it over the scanner or it would have made the news. She has never made the news or the scanner for anything regarding her living at her parent's home since she moved in with them. Is not that odd to anyone else?

Now we don't know what goes on in that home, but to me, she seems to be way too comfortable. She's not only been silent but completely away from the public as well. I mean look, we got snow last week and I was housebound for two days before almost going nuts. It took me two more days to get the driveway cleared out, but I was so happy to get out of the house in my car, even if the roadways were still hazardous. I couldn't stand being trapped in my home and unable to go anywhere. Yet TH seems to not have a problem with that. How has she not gone stir crazy at this point? How can she so quiet it's like she's disappeared herself?

I would think if she's really innocent and enraged, being silent and trapped inside of her parents home would be the last thing she would want to do for what, going on eight, nine months now? This person who had mucho freedom before this when she was a housewife and could basically have a separate life during the day and do what she wants is okay with having nothing and doing nothing now, not even doing anything online? Something just isn't right with that picture. Could any of us last this long at home, never leaving, never speaking to anyone but our family and lawyer? That is what bothers me and makes her look very guilty to me.

No one is willing to give up everything, their whole life, to sit in a house and never leave it, never talk to anyone but the people in their house and their lawyers, and never have any sort of life again, except for TH. I can't believe she isn't suicidal by this point or hasn't tried to take her life. If she's innocent, the only person she's hurting here is herself. The investigation isn't stopping, the searches aren't stopping, everything is going on around her and she's the only one silent and stopping her life, hoping that LE never knocks on her door to arrest her. She thinks being silent will save her, that if she never says anything, she'll never get caught, and this mess will just go away. But this is kidnapping and murder, a still missing child we're talking about. That is never going to just go away because she refuses to talk.

Also, I have news for her. I just watched a case on TV last night where a double police shooting was finally solved after 46 YEARS, thanks to new technology, a finger print that was taken 46 years earlier, and a scar from a bullet fired by one of the policeman that was killed that hit the killer in his back. Unbelievable. The man got life, and he was in his seventies. So if you think being silent is going to save you, Terri, you're wrong. One day, they will come for you, no matter how long it takes. LE doesn't give up, and neither does justice.

Great post Aedrys, and it builds on another great post of yours asking...what secret is worth keeping THIS long at the cost Terri has paid?

I do believe Terri was a woman with a double life. If she killed Kyron, I think SHE believes she was only doing what she had to, to protect her own Life. I think Chris Coleman feels the same. Gee whiz, what do you do if people jeopardize you getting or preserving the Life you want? I think that is the mindset these two share.

I think Terri tried to manage her secrets by sending her son away..and working on Desiree to try and take Kyron. I think Terri probably feels it took her 3 marriage to achieve a level of comfortable living. She might have Kaine killed, and thereby keep the goodies...but she couldn't allow a kid she loathed to blow the whistle and cause her to loose everything.

So Kyron was "disappeared."

That's one scenario...the one I believe...and in this case, of course, she has to keep quiet and sequestered. She 's covering a murder!

But, if she's innocent...what is left to loose? Kaine is gone. Baby K is gone. Many people everywhere suspect her of the most heinous crime.

If she were to say..."I was intimately "entertaining" members of the Portland Landscapers Society out at Sauvie Island that day."...guess what! Her reputation immediately IMPROVES! If she says..." I was robbing the First National Bank of Oregon"...her image betters itself. Terri Horman has no secret, other than murdering a little boy who loved her...that would not improve her current situation.

No, there are two secrets. The one that was "fatal" to Kyron. And the one that made her abandon her Baby...and imprison herself in her aging parents home.

If she is not charged...I believe that Desiree will one day tell us both those secrets...as she knows and understands them.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I believe Terri is guilty of kidnapping Kyron and killing him.
Why do I think this?
Terri said that the last time she saw Kyron was when the 8:45 bell rang and she left him in the hallway heading for his class, said "by Mom, I'm going to class now."
Would that hall way be filled with other children and possibly parents escorting their children to their class also?
How in the heck could that event taken place with a hall way full of people and no one else seeing Terri or Kyron?
IMO Didn't happen.
IMO Terri left that school, had Kyron meet her out at the truck, Drove off with him.
I believe Kryon was seen by Kaine's truck, but not seen leaving the school in Kaine's truck.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Well along with that line of thinking, why haven't they been able to find enough phone/texting/email evidence of a plot to get rid of Kyron and/or Kaine?

I don't know how in one post someone can say she's a master maniuplator and able to hide a murder for 8 months (paraphrasing) but in another post say she's not careful when it comes to cummunicating. Which is it? She's either careful or she's not? :waitasec:

I never said Terri could "hide a murder for 8 months." I think if she killed Kyron, she got lucky and they just haven't found him yet.

I don't see TH as a great mastermind, far from it. And in fact, said in my last post that she wasn't too careful with her text messages. Didn't I? :waitasec:

I don't believe she is a "master manipulator." If people were manipulated by her, they either overlooked her flaws (other husbands, Kaine) or didn't realize how far gone and confused she was (Desiree). I don't blame those she manipulated because they are victims too.

Kyron was an innocent child. If TH manipulated him for her own whims, that is evil, in my opinion. She had control over his life, and he trusted her. She was the last adult with him when he disappeared. She should be taking responsibility for that and instead has receded from view and lawyered up, afraid to answer questions because she must know they have plenty against her already.

 

[mmmagique]

My own thoughts are that there is a lot of stuff that has come out and is unattractive, unappealing and outside accepted societal norms. I think that may be what LE referred to in that presser stating they had learned things they wish they hadn't, shocking upsetting things. Whether those things relate to Kyron's disappearance or are simply things discovered in the investigation and are unsavory, we do not know.

But what can shock hardened LEO's who have seen the worst of the worst? Surely not some sexy texting, an affair, or even bdsm or swingers.
Unfortunately, I can only come up with a few answers to that question. None of them good for Kyron.

 

[Trident]

But what can shock hardened LEO's who have seen the worst of the worst? Surely not some sexy texting, an affair, or even bdsm or swingers.
Unfortunately, I can only come up with a few answers to that question. None of them good for Kyron.

Good post. I can come up with more than a few, but as you said, none of them are good for Kyron.

 

[matou]

I've been thinking about the sexting docs that were released and in them Terri mentions that DeeDee gave her a drink and that it had made her "in the mood" so to speak. I wonder if alcohol generally had this affect on her. If Terri had a drinking problem and hid her drinking even in the home, I wonder if she could have harmed Kyron sexually. It is something I have thought about since learning about her sexting. She seems hypersexual. I wouldn't be surprised if her sexuality is the root of what happened to Kyron. Like others have already mentioned here, maybe Kyron knew about something and Terri didn't want Kaine to know. JMO

 

[scandi]

I've been thinking about the sexting docs that were released and in them Terri mentions that DeeDee gave her a drink and that it had made her "in the mood" so to speak. I wonder if alcohol generally had this affect on her. If Terri had a drinking problem and hid her drinking even in the home, I wonder if she could have harmed Kyron sexually. It is something I have thought about since learning about her sexting. She seems hypersexual. I wouldn't be surprised if her sexuality is the root of what happened to Kyron. Like others have already mentioned here, maybe Kyron knew about something and Terri didn't want Kaine to know. JMO

Hi Matou, I've often had the same thought. If Kyron even saw something he shouldn't have and threatened to tell his dad, it could mean the end of the marriage for Terri. There must have been a good reason Kyron didn't want to go back to Portland.

Watching a show last night where the hubby had killed his wife it was said she was a threat to him. The only way to remove that threat was to kill her. Dr Albau also said the same thing during the Scott Peterson case that removing a threat is an often cause for murder.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I've been thinking about the sexting docs that were released and in them Terri mentions that DeeDee gave her a drink and that it had made her "in the mood" so to speak. I wonder if alcohol generally had this affect on her. If Terri had a drinking problem and hid her drinking even in the home, I wonder if she could have harmed Kyron sexually. It is something I have thought about since learning about her sexting. She seems hypersexual. I wouldn't be surprised if her sexuality is the root of what happened to Kyron. Like others have already mentioned here, maybe Kyron knew about something and Terri didn't want Kaine to know. JMO

That makes a lot of sense to me and I can definitely see that being a motive for why Terri would kill Kyron. However, I would say that Kyron would be capable of telling his father about the abuse at least for the past 2-3 years. Don't people think Casey killed Caylee because Caylee was starting to talk, and she was only 3. So why didn't Terri harm him earlier if she was worried he might tell? Or do you believe that the abuse had started just a few weeks or months before he went missing?

ETA: If Terri and Kaine's sex life had slowed down in the weeks or months before Kyron went missing, could Terri be using Kyron as a replacement? Is that possible? Or do most people who abuse their own children/step children do it as soon as the kid is born?

 

[Aedrys]

That makes a lot of sense to me and I can definitely see that being a motive for why Terri would kill Kyron. However, I would say that Kyron would be capable of telling his father about the abuse at least for the past 2-3 years. Don't people think Casey killed Caylee because Caylee was starting to talk, and she was only 3. So why didn't Terri harm him earlier if she was worried he might tell? Or do you believe that the abuse had started just a few weeks or months before he went missing?

ETA: If Terri and Kaine's sex life had slowed down in the weeks or months before Kyron went missing, could Terri be using Kyron as a replacement? Is that possible? Or do most people who abuse their own children/step children do it as soon as the kid is born?

Well, we know the marriage had gone south, and apparently Terri was tired of being a mother. She sent her son away, and then it was just Kyron and the baby, who wasn't two yet. The baby can't talk, and the baby was mini - Terri. So the only thing left to get rid of was Kyron. I think she just got tired of being the perfect stepmother to him.

I don't think she sexually abused him. I think he was getting more attention from Kaine than she was, and her alternate life/sexual escapades weren't distracting her enough from a marriage she didn't want to be in anymore. She wanted to be free of being married to Kaine and tied down to being the perfect mom. I honestly think it's somewhat like the Casey Anthony case. I think she was plotting to kill Kaine for awhile, and then somehow for some reason Kyron got on her radar and she took care of him first. Maybe the science project and how much attention Kyron got from Kaine on it just drove Terri over the edge. Remember, she tried to get Desiree to take Kyron, but Kaine put his foot down and said no.

I don't think Kyron was sexual object to her, I just think he got in her way and the only way to get him out of her way, to Terri, was to kill him. Terri only cares about her own sexual needs, and I just don't think a seven year old child would do it for her. She liked full grown men she could manipulate. It was Kaine's sexual attention she wanted and wasn't getting, so that's why she looked outside of her marriage for that. Kaine is lucky that she didn't kill him first.

If she's guilty of anything, it's wanting to fulfill her own sexual desires and be the center of attention more than an seven year old child. And even now, her only desire is protect herself to the exclusion of everyone else, even her own baby. It had and still has to be about Terri, Terri, Terri. I think she couldn't handle Kyron coming before her anymore. The problem is, in a step situation, one of the things the stepparent has to accept is that the children of the spouse come first. I mean, she had a baby when they had agreed they weren't going to have other kids, and that wasn't enough to get Kaine's attention away from Kyron.

She was selfish, she got fed up with coming in second, and so Kyron had to go. I do think the science project plus Kyron going to stay with Desiree for the summer pushed Terri to do this when she did it. If Terri wasn't so selfish, she wouldn't be where she is today, that's for sure.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I agree, Aedrys. I don't think Terri saw Kyron was a sexual object, but just a problem she wanted to solve. I'm sure lots of things factored into her dislike of Kyron: jealousy, resentment about the responsibility, wanting her own child to come first, wanting freedom from his curiousity and questions, possibly even wanting more child support for her own daughter in a possible divorce, etc.

 

[TxLady2]

I just think if they had the evidence that pointed to Terri as the culprit she would have been arrested and charged by now. Nobody can be prosecuted on beliefs and opinions only. They took it to a grand jury, and nothing happened. Nobody saw her leave the school with Kyron, nobody saw him in the truck with her that day.
As for the MFH, I think it's the LS's word against hers and it can't be proven, so they won't be able to charge her without proof. People lie all the time. He lied for whatever reason, and LE looked like fools for trying to set her up.
I don't think she is guilty of anything related to Kyron. If she had been abusing him, he would have told his dad. And I see no evidence that she hated Kyron, other than the mom's statement. If you knew your child's step-parent hated your child, would you sit back and not do or say anything?
I still believe some predator snatched this child because the school was so crowded and no one was paying any attention. I will continue to believe that until LE releases the evidence to prove I'm wrong. It won't bother me one bit to admit that, as I've been wrong before. I just prefer to sit on the fence for now.

 

[Scamperoo]

So far Terri is Guilty of nothing but has since the beginning been the "focus" of LE, she may be guilty of something but then again she may not.

One cannot be considered guilty because they have the sense to hire a good lawyer nor because she seems to be the best hope for a conviction and at this point LE are obviously stumped. Her soon to be ex is not longer commenting only the birth mom continues to point at Terri and this is understandable. I feel however that if she thought Terri such a horrible person she would never have let him live with Terri nor would they have had such frequent email contact.

I don't know if Terri is involved, so far LE has so little they can't even focus the investigation so they have tried to involve friends of Terri's. So, she couldn't have done it, so her friends obviously helped her??? It just seems hinky to me or desperate.

I'm still on the fence, there just isn't enough to say she did or didn't and I can't decide because her lifestyle choices are not to my taste, or she is not a particularly likable human being.

I can't forget how little information we really have, other than suspiciously timed negative material that's dripped poisonously at appropriate moments to further muddy the waters.

I feel manipulated and I will wait until LE has enough evidence to charge someone. I also would like to point out that every time there is any serious activity in this case, it always comes before some sort of future funding situation...count me on the fence

 

[ThoughtFox]

If she had been abusing him, he would have told his dad. And I see no evidence that she hated Kyron, other than the mom's statement. If you knew your child's step-parent hated your child, would you sit back and not do or say anything?

To be fair to Desiree, she didn't know that Terri truly hated Kyron till LE showed her those emails and that only happened long after he was missing. Kaine didn't know either because he hadn't seen all of Terri's emails and text messages, obviously - or he would have known about the murder plot against him.

We can't hold them responsible for not knowing what was in Terri's heart and mind. She was secretive and had a double life. She was also a very good liar apparently, and while none of that proves she is guilty, it doesn't help her look innocent either.

 

[Aedrys]

I just think if they had the evidence that pointed to Terri as the culprit she would have been arrested and charged by now. Nobody can be prosecuted on beliefs and opinions only. They took it to a grand jury, and nothing happened. Nobody saw her leave the school with Kyron, nobody saw him in the truck with her that day.
As for the MFH, I think it's the LS's word against hers and it can't be proven, so they won't be able to charge her without proof. People lie all the time. He lied for whatever reason, and LE looked like fools for trying to set her up.
I don't think she is guilty of anything related to Kyron. If she had been abusing him, he would have told his dad. And I see no evidence that she hated Kyron, other than the mom's statement. If you knew your child's step-parent hated your child, would you sit back and not do or say anything?
I still believe some predator snatched this child because the school was so crowded and no one was paying any attention. I will continue to believe that until LE releases the evidence to prove I'm wrong. It won't bother me one bit to admit that, as I've been wrong before. I just prefer to sit on the fence for now.

Then why is Terri so intimidated that she has the best lawyer in Oregon? Why is she willing to cut off contact with her baby daughter? Why is she willing to isolate herself in her parents home, never leave, never have any kind of life? I know I couldn't just continue to sit there, month after month, and have people think I did something I didn't do. She continues to the keep wagons circled around herself. Why, if she's so innocent? What innocent person does something like this? Could any of us truly sit in a house for nine months or more and not say one word if we were innocent?

That's what I can't get past. Maybe there isn't enough evidence, maybe the MFH is nothing. But there Terri sits, quiet, contentedly so, not moving or saying a word anytime soon. I just don't think an innocent person could stand do that and let the world at large think they did something they didn't do, especially something so horrible as kidnapping and killing a child. That is not worth hiding sexual escapades or things that might make a person look bad. This is an innocent, helpless child we're talking about. What could be more important than that for Terri to cover and refuse to clear her own name? What could be more important than finding said child? Oh right, sitting there, saying nothing, hiding behind a power lawyer to save herself. If that's not selfishness, I don't know what is.

As much as I want to believe she's innocent, there are serious questions that continue to bother me here. Who knows, maybe this is the new breed of innocents, ones who don't say a word and hire the best lawyer there is. But to me, it says otherwise. To me, it says she's guilty of kidnapping and murdering Kyron, and nothing matters more to her than protecting herself, not even her own family, not even her own baby daughter. That bothers me to no end. Would any of us go that far to save ourselves if innocent? Think about, really think about it. I know I couldn't, not ever.