What One Thing?!?!

[SunnieRN]

Hello everyone!! Thank you so much for the pm's, wishes and thoughts!! My computer was compromised, then I ended up in the hospital, but am back home now!!

Thank you one and all, for your continuing fight for justice for Rebecca!! I hope to catch up soon!!

 

[stilettos]

Hello everyone!! Thank you so much for the pm's, wishes and thoughts!! My computer was compromised, then I ended up in the hospital, but am back home now!!

Thank you one and all, for your continuing fight for justice for Rebecca!! I hope to catch up soon!!

:rocker:Welcome back Sunnie! We missed you.

:yourock:

 

[SunnieRN]

Stilettos, I missed you and everyone here also! The brilliance of posters here is amazing! The ideas and theories brought forth are unbelievably insightful!! If justice for Rebecca comes around, the posters here will play a large part in that happening!! :seeya:

 

[ep0ch]

RZ's footprints on the white wall where she was hanging seems to indicate she was conscious and alive after she went over the balcony. I don't see any other explanation for how her footprints got there. I think this really supports suicide because she could not have been tied up and hung by a murderer unless she was at least unconscious.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rzbalcony.jpg

 

[defense101]

RZ's footprints on the white wall where she was hanging seems to indicate she was conscious and alive after she went over the balcony. I don't see any other explanation for how her footprints got there. I think this really supports suicide because she could not have been tied up and hung by a murderer unless she was at least unconscious.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rzbalcony.jpg

What??? That assumption doesn't make sense, were the Petit family unconscious prior to being tied up, were Mansons victims unconscious, we all of Angelo Buono and Kenneth Bianchi victims unconscious... no.

 

[jjenny]

Nobody ever claimed her footprints were found on the "white wall." What do you think she was doing to get her footprints on the wall? Climbing it?

 

[ep0ch]

What??? That assumption doesn't make sense, were the Petit family unconscious prior to being tied up, were Mansons victims unconscious, we all of Angelo Buono and Kenneth Bianchi victims unconscious... no.

None of those killers hung their victims or used loose bindings. The alternative is that a loosely bound and conscious RZ gets carried out to the balcony and dropped off the edge without her pulling out of her bindings and without putting up a struggle or damaging the narrow door, and without the killer leaving foot prints.
RZ being unconscious is very important to the murder theory in this case. That is why the injuries to her head are so important to those who believe it was murder.

 

[ep0ch]

Nobody ever claimed her footprints were found on the "white wall." What do you think she was doing to get her footprints on the wall? Climbing it?

They are pretty clear in the photo I linked to. Her feet were dirty from the balcony. She lifted her legs up and pushed off the wall while she was being asphyxiated. The autopsy report indicates her feet were scratched from the plants/ cactus tree under the balcony. She was moving around quite a bit while she was dying.

 

[jjenny]

They are pretty clear in the photo I linked to. Her feet were dirty from the balcony. She lifted her legs up and pushed off the wall while she was being asphyxiated. The autopsy report indicates her feet were scratched from the plants/ cactus tree under the balcony. She was moving around quite a bit while she was dying.

I don't know what exactly is clear on that wall. Police never claimed her footprints were on the wall. In a 9ft drop, which is how she supposedly died, she would have passed out within seconds. I sincerely doubt someone dying from a 9 ft drop is going to lift legs up and push of the wall (especially considering her legs were bound together).

 

[ep0ch]

I am not a physician, but I thought it would take a few minutes to die of asphyxiation, regardless of the fall. I attached a cropped image. You really don't think this looks like the toe prints of two feet close together? Look at how the marks appear to be moving all in the same direction. I know the police never never claimed her footprints were on the wall, but since when are you relying on what the police said?

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rzbalcony.jpg

 

[jjenny]

I am not a physician, but I thought it would take a few minutes to die of asphyxiation, regardless of the fall. I attached a cropped image. You really don't think this looks like the toe prints of two feet close together? Look at how the marks appear to be moving all in the same direction. I know the police never never claimed her footprints were on the wall, but since when are you relying on what the police said?

I really can't tell what that is. Supposedly her feet ended up 2 ft of the ground. Those marks are quite a bit higher than that. How exactly would she be able to get her feet up that high onto the wall?

 

[ep0ch]

Looking at this recreation:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7115100&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The case for murder[/ame]
the marks are about her waist level. About where you would expect them to be if she was pulling her legs up to push off the wall. Since the balcony is a few feet deep, she would have to raise her legs up quite a bit to even reach the wall.

 

[CanManEh]

If the rope that binds her hands is also connected to her feets it would be impossible for her to lift her legs up it wouldn't let her because its around her wrists .If she tried to kick out or pull her feet and lifts up to grasp the wall it wouldn't work because of the hands being bound the rope would be to tight her arms aren't gonna give enough in orger for that rope to be loose enough to kick upwords

 

[ep0ch]

If the rope that binds her hands is also connected to her feets it would be impossible for her to lift her legs up it wouldn't let her because its around her wrists .

According to the autopsy report, the rope used to tie the wrists was "not attached to the neck ligature or the ankle bindings." She was NOT hog-tied.

 

[jjenny]

Looking at this recreation:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The case for murder
the marks are about her waist level. About where you would expect them to be if she was pulling her legs up to push off the wall. Since the balcony is a few feet deep, she would have to raise her legs up quite a bit to even reach the wall.

Her feet were 2 ft from the ground. That's in the autopsy report. Those marks would not be at her waist level.

 

[CanManEh]

I understand that she wasn't hog tied what iam saying is if the rope was tied around her wrists then around her ankles u wouldn't be able to lift your legs up her arms are attatched to her body thier not gonna allow her to kick her feet up to her waist its gonna pull on the rope around her wrists which aren't gonna give any since thier attatched to her arms .

 

[ep0ch]

I understand that she wasn't hog tied what iam saying is if the rope was tied around her wrists then around her ankles

The rope was NOT tied like that though. There were 3 separate ropes on her wrists and ankles and neck.

 

[ep0ch]

Her feet were 2 ft from the ground. That's in the autopsy report. Those marks would not be at her waist level.

I thought about that also and I initially agreed with you. Remember, the autopsy report of the height off the ground is an estimate, apparently using the known length of the rope and the height of the balcony from the ground (not eyewitness reports). The recreation I linked to is to scale but puts her feet well above 2 feet. You can test it out yourself, assuming the standard door height of 80" (the recreation assumed a railing height of 36" but you get to the same place), and the coroner's measurements:
top of railing to knot is 110"
RZ's height is 63.5"
ground to feet is 26.5"
total =200 inches (height of her head would make this closer to 190")
exactly 2.5 times the height of the door

However, the sheriff photo shows the top of railing to ground as almost exactly 3 times the height of the door.

Somehow, there are 40 inches missing. I don't know how to explain this. Either the coroner was wrong, or the house is smaller than it appears (which would make the railing much lower than 36"). However, considering the 26.5" is an estimate from unknown measurements, I think she was much higher than 26.5". The scale recreation and the photo of the balcony appear to confirm this.

 

[CanManEh]

The rope was NOT tied like that though. There were 3 separate ropes on her wrists and ankles and neck.

Ok see that makes more sence then I was under the impression thier were 2 ropes one for the neck then another for wrists and ankles ..

 

[defense101]

None of those killers hung their victims or used loose bindings. The alternative is that a loosely bound and conscious RZ gets carried out to the balcony and dropped off the edge without her pulling out of her bindings and without putting up a struggle or damaging the narrow door, and without the killer leaving foot prints.
RZ being unconscious is very important to the murder theory in this case. That is why the injuries to her head are so important to those who believe it was murder.

No they were murdered in different ways, but my point was that they were not unconscious before being bound or tied up. You stated she would have had to be unconscious in order to be tied up.