What Shirt Was JB Wearing When She Was Killed?

[julianne]

There is no documented evidence that a douching product was used in the Ramsey household.

If there was and it was considered relevant Steve Thomas would have let us know all about it in his book, since it backs up his Toilet Rage theory.

It seems reasonable to assume that Patsy may have been rasing her voice to JonBenet in the bathroom, whilst either cleaning her up, or telling her off for not wiping herself down?

Why should Patsy apply an adult product to such a young child, if it were not such a serious homicide, then the use of such a product on a child may suggest it was being used to remove evidence of sexual abuse?

.

Thank you---I am reposting this, and I'll say it myself---There is NO evidence, not one bit, lending itself to the douching scenario. No evidence to support ONE instance of douching, let alone a continual pattern as some think. There is just nothing that supports it whatsoever.

 

[Veronica10]

Veronica, do you think we touched on a nerve here. Have a nice weekend!

Right back at ya Solace .

 

[BBB167893]

I'm with you, julianne.

 

[Solace]

Right back at ya Solace .

Morning Veronica. I saw a fascinating show last night about a man who is arrested for killing his son's teacher - it doesn't matter why - but anyway all through the show, he is interviewed and says I did not do it. There is a miniscule amount of DNA on the body from this man, but he still says he did not do it and I am not sure of his guilt myself while watching it. His wife stands behind him all through the show. At the end he admits he did it and gives an interview and when asked why he held to that claim, he says "because it makes it easier to live with yourself, you almost start to believe you did not do it".

I thought this fascinating because I have never seen someone come clean about the murder and why he held to it (besides the obvious of escaping jail time). I have more understanding of Patsy now and why she steadfastly holds to the "I did not do it" claim. I think this was an accident and she had convinced herself that she did NOT intentionally do it, so therefore she did not do it and what good will it do for her to go to jail, Berke needs her now.

 

[Veronica10]

"I have more understanding of Patsy now and why she steadfastly holds to the "I did not do it" claim. I think this was an accident and she had convinced herself that she did NOT intentionally do it, so therefore she did not do it and what good will it do for her to go to jail, Berke needs her now."

Happy Monday Solace. Yes, I think Patsy absolutely believed this. I can even imagine her at times being annoyed with the "criminality" (a word?) of the whole matter. I think the Ramsey's saw this as a private matter and when the police started to dig, they (especially John) started to get pissed.

Absolutely Patsy was devastated by what happened to JB, she did not intend for it to unfold as it did. The 10 years after the death of JonBenet must have been sheer hell for her, that being said, she still deserved to go to jail. I'm sure when her time on this earth ended, it was time for her to answer for her actions. As it will be for all of us.

 

[Solace]

"I have more understanding of Patsy now and why she steadfastly holds to the "I did not do it" claim. I think this was an accident and she had convinced herself that she did NOT intentionally do it, so therefore she did not do it and what good will it do for her to go to jail, Berke needs her now."

Happy Monday Solace. Yes, I think Patsy absolutely believed this. I can even imagine her at times being annoyed with the "criminality" (a word?) of the whole matter. I think the Ramsey's saw this as a private matter and when the police started to dig, they (especially John) started to get pissed.

Absolutely Patsy was devastated by what happened to JB, she did not intend for it to unfold as it did. The 10 years after the death of JonBenet must have been sheer hell for her, that being said, she still deserved to go to jail. I'm sure when her time on this earth ended, it was time for her to answer for her actions. As it will be for all of us.

And she also said to someone (when they stayed with friends immediately following the death) that "we did not mean for this to happen". The way I take that is you were involved. Because if you were were not, there would be no need to say this because we all know THAT NO PARENT MEANS FOR THEIR CHILD TO DIE, SO THEY DO NOT HAVE TO SAY THAT.

 

[JMO8778]

"I have more understanding of Patsy now and why she steadfastly holds to the "I did not do it" claim. I think this was an accident and she had convinced herself that she did NOT intentionally do it, so therefore she did not do it and what good will it do for her to go to jail, Berke needs her now."

Happy Monday Solace. Yes, I think Patsy absolutely believed this. I can even imagine her at times being annoyed with the "criminality" (a word?) of the whole matter. I think the Ramsey's saw this as a private matter and when the police started to dig, they (especially John) started to get pissed.

Absolutely Patsy was devastated by what happened to JB, she did not intend for it to unfold as it did. The 10 years after the death of JonBenet must have been sheer hell for her, that being said, she still deserved to go to jail. I'm sure when her time on this earth ended, it was time for her to answer for her actions. As it will be for all of us.

agreed,not only that, but she betrayed JB till the day she died.And on TOP of that,she and JR both betrayed a lot of their friends as well,pointing fingers and ruining the reputations of ppl they knew could not possibly be involved.Those are 2 totally different things,and she and JR both should have been held accountable for them.I'm convinced they will be someday in the next life;yes there is a God that forgives,IMO,**but He also holds ppl accountable for what they do,and I'm convinced there is NO way they can get away with causing so much hurt and pain,not just to JB(mainly to her though),but to others as well.NO WAY.God doesn't lie.
I think that goes for the lawyers and family members who support them as well.

 

[Veronica10]

agreed,not only that, but she betrayed JB till the day she died.And on TOP of that,she and JR both betrayed a lot of their friends as well,pointing fingers and ruining the reputations of ppl they knew could not possibly be involved.Those are 2 totally different things,and she and JR both should have been held accountable for them.I'm convinced they will be someday in the next life;yes there is a God that forgives,IMO,**but He also holds ppl accountable for what they do,and I'm convinced there is NO way they can get away with causing so much hurt and pain,not just to JB(mainly to her though),but to others as well.NO WAY.God doesn't lie.
I think that goes for the lawyers and family members who support them as well.

There have been times when I've found myself feeling sorry for them, and for the loss of their daughter I do, but you are so right when you say how they completely betrayed JB, her memory, their friends, etc, in the effort to save their asses. I think God is forgiving, but you must seek forgiveness and truly be sorry. JR and PR truly started down an evil path in an effort to save their skins. They should have tried to save their souls instead.

 

[BBB167893]

There have been times when I've found myself feeling sorry for them, and for the loss of their daughter I do, but you are so right when you say how they completely betrayed JB, her memory, their friends, etc, in the effort to save their asses. I think God is forgiving, but you must seek forgiveness and truly be sorry. JR and PR truly started down an evil path in an effort to save their skins. They should have tried to save their souls instead.

Even I am not without sympathy. There but for the grace of the gods...

 

[Solace]

Even I am not without sympathy. There but for the grace of the gods...

I am not defending them, but it must have been horrific and they were terrified. I can picture Patsy shaking her to no avail and waiting and waiting for her to regain consciousness and it is not happening. That house must have been insaaaaaaaaaaane.

 

[narlacat]

And she also said to someone (when they stayed with friends immediately following the death) that "we did not mean for this to happen". The way I take that is you were involved. Because if you were were not, there would be no need to say this because we all know THAT NO PARENT MEANS FOR THEIR CHILD TO DIE, SO THEY DO NOT HAVE TO SAY THAT.

Yes and I'm pretty sure she was doped up by that stage.

You know the old saying, the truth comes out when you're drunk...works the same for drugs...

 

[Toaster]

I am not defending them, but it must have been horrific and they were terrified. I can picture Patsy shaking her to no avail and waiting and waiting for her to regain consciousness and it is not happening. That house must have been insaaaaaaaaaaane.

I doubt the house was insane. A cold-blooded killer like Patsy probably calmly fixed herself a glass of ice tea and calmly wrote her novel of ransom.

 

[Ames]

<snipped>
I thought this fascinating because I have never seen someone come clean about the murder and why he held to it (besides the obvious of escaping jail time). I have more understanding of Patsy now and why she steadfastly holds to the "I did not do it" claim. I think this was an accident and she had convinced herself that she did NOT intentionally do it, so therefore she did not do it and what good will it do for her to go to jail, Berke needs her now.

I believe that OJ Simpson has done the very same thing....even though the murder of Nicole and Ron were not an accident....I believe that he has convinced himself that he did not commit those murders. When we all know otherwise.

 

[Ames]

Yes and I'm pretty sure she was doped up by that stage.

You know the old saying, the truth comes out when you're drunk...works the same for drugs...

Now ain't THAT the truth.

 

[Ames]

I am not defending them, but it must have been horrific and they were terrified. I can picture Patsy shaking her to no avail and waiting and waiting for her to regain consciousness and it is not happening. That house must have been insaaaaaaaaaaane.

I can picture the same thing Solace...after injuring JB to the point of no return...I am sure that she shook her (thats where I believe that those bruises on her head came from)....over and over again. Probably almost to the point of snapping her neck. I believe that this is when Patsy screamed...and John came running to find out what the heck was happening.

 

[Solace]

I doubt the house was insane. A cold-blooded killer like Patsy probably calmly fixed herself a glass of ice tea and calmly wrote her novel of ransom.

Hi Toaster: But if they were calm, that Ransom note is very shakey. The person who wrote it was shaking. You have to look at it again. The person writing this note is in extreme stress.

 

[Solace]

I can picture the same thing Solace...after injuring JB to the point of no return...I am sure that she shook her (thats where I believe that those bruises on her head came from)....over and over again. Probably almost to the point of snapping her neck. I believe that this is when Patsy screamed...and John came running to find out what the heck was happening.

Hi Ames: That is why I like to read everything because I had not read anywhere else about the bruising to both sides of her cranium. Cyril Wecht points this out. I disagree with his sex game theory but the shaking I can definitely see happening.

 

[BBB167893]

You know the old saying, the truth comes out when you're drunk

In vino veritas

I doubt the house was insane. A cold-blooded killer like Patsy probably calmly fixed herself a glass of ice tea and calmly wrote her novel of ransom.

I'm interested as to what makes you say that, Toaster.

 

[Ames]

Hi Ames: That is why I like to read everything because I had not read anywhere else about the bruising to both sides of her cranium. Cyril Wecht points this out. I disagree with his sex game theory but the shaking I can definitely see happening.

I am with ya...I do not agree with his sex game theory either. But, yes...I could see the shaking definitely happening, too.

 

[azwriter]

I believe that JB was in the red turtleneck when she went to bed that night, she wet the bed...Patsy got pissed...and flew into a rage...and used the collar of the turtle neck to choke her with. I believe that she probably wore the red turtleneck UNDER the white shirt to the White's party, and when they got home, JB was asleep...so, Patsy took off the white shirt and just left the turtleneck on her (it would have woke her up to try and pull off a turtleneck...IMO). Patsy didn't want to leave the red shirt on JB, the collar was all stretched out of shape...and it would have looked suspicious. I believe that right after the attack, Patsy changed JB back into the white shirt. That is why Patsy can't keep her story straight in her interviews about which shirt JB wore to bed that night. First she says the red turtleneck, and then she says the white shirt. Steve Thomas believes she was wearing the red shirt, also.

This sounds reasonable but I have problems with JonBenet being asleep when they arrived at the house. I think, as Burke first said, she was awake when they got home. You have to take the evidence of the pineapple into account in the big picture. In my world, she was awake, snacked on pineapple then got ready for bed, wearing the red turtleneck in advance for the next morning trip. And then your version comes into play, JonBenet wet the bed, a tired frazzled Patsy reacted to the bedwetting and things went on as you cited it. JMO