What's missing for Prosecution?

[QB.]

What about the Henkle Duct tape? I thought it was important to show how rare that tape was, did they present any of that info to the jury?

 

[pip]

I think the state is holding back all the details as long as CA, GA and LA remain witnesses for the state. If the A's start traveling down the defense road the state will start using all the ammo they have to prove them liars and the whole dynamic of the trial will change....which will lengthen the trial considerably. As long as the A's stick by the state, the rest is not needed and they will be spared the humiliation of being exposed for the coverups and lies for ICA they took part in. I think the state has laid out enough evidence for the jurors to convict her as is.

 

[Anais]

IMO it already came out in an indirect way that the story of George's behavior at the alleged drowning was not logical. The medical examiner testified that in her experience 911 is always called in children's drowning accidents unless there is a good reason not to. It applies to George as well. The soap opera talk wasn't a good reaon, IMO, it sounds more like an immature teen type of excuse ("OMG I can't tell mom") and not something a grown man would come up with. He also said on the stand that if he'd been there we wouldn't be here and it implies a whole lotta things that would have been different had he known that Caylee drowned that day. The pool might still be there and George and Cindy might still be living in the house with all the memories of Caylee but things wouldn't have gotten so far with the stupid nanny story and just maybe someone would have called 911.

BBM

You really hit the nail on target with your post. IMO this ridiculous opening statement/story came straight from the horses mouth, ICA herself. It reeks of her type of lies with unbelievable twisted fables labeled as facts that no normal person will ever buy into! Even if they do put her on the stand they will crucify her, (SA) and imho jurors will not but her fake crying and acting her way through it all.

IMO the SA has done a fabulous job linking the totality of the circumstantial evidence together like a Christmas present with a big red bow on the top!

 

[debbie0604]

Bold mine

I think before handing over to Baez, the State will bring on the FBI chemist who analysed the duct tape. I think we'll see the phone pings introduced into evidence, will see evidence of the tape used on Caylee's missing poster and I think Cindy will take the stand again to confirm another two important claims made in LDB's opening statement.


i.e.

• that the Winnie the Pooh blanket was missing from the house.
• that she did own another Whitney laundry bag

The State can then rest and concentrate on cross examination where depending on what doors Baez opens for them, they likely will be able to bring out many of the points you listed above, e.g. when Baez undoubtedly attempts to show ICA as a good and loving mother, he opens the door for the State to show otherwise, e.g. what loving mother totally puts the financial burden for her child on to her parents. If she had no income for two years how did she acquire money? And what victim of sexual abuse would routinely leave her infant daughter with her abuser?.

Baez needs to be very careful what doors he opens for the State. They are imo anticipating his every move. They also have those 6 felony convictions hovering over his head, should he attempt to go somewhere the rules don't allow. Many witnesses have imo been kept back strictly for rebuttal purposes.

The jury can re-visit any piece of evidence again. They can listen to the 5 hours of jailhouse tapes, they can read ICA's first written statement, they can view the many images of ICA caught on cctv and the pics at Fusian. They can read transcripts of all testimony, look again at the pictures of Caylee's skull with the duct tape in place. Those jailhouse tapes tell their own story of a cruel, manipulative selfish lying b*tch. They also imo go a long way in vindicating George Anthony's having anything to do with the disposal of his granchild's body.

Finally I hope for a lengthy zinger of a closing argument shared by LDB and JA where everything pointing to this woman's guilt is clearly laid out and the jury get to finally meet Caylee................. as she was in life.

BBM I totally agree! Great post!!

 

[SATA]

What the prosecution has proven so far, in my view, is that Caylee´s dead body was in the trunk of Casey´s car for three to five days. They have proven that Casey acted as if nothing had happened, partying, seeing friends, going about her life as she always had.
They have proven that she lied, lied and lied again (defense said that too in opening, so no surprise there).
But have they proven, so far, that Casey killed her daughter with pre-meditation? In my opinion NO. Not beyond reasonable doubt - and far from it. The internet searches are not enough. First of all, they cannot PROVE that it was Casey doing them, secondly, they cannot PROVE that those searches have anything to do with Caylee´s death.
And we haven´t even heard the defense yet!
Second degree murder is what I think the outcome will be judged from what I have seen and heard so far.
I am trying to put myself in the place of the jury, not expressing my real views.

I think Second Degree Murder will be what Casey will be convicted of.

"Second-degree murder is defined in the Code as all murders that are not first-degree but where the killing was still intentional. Generally speaking, it applies to those murders that take place in the “heat of the moment” and weren’t planned in advance. For example, a husband who had no plans to kills his wife but, once they start fighting, means to kill her, is guilty of second-degree murder. Like with first-degree, those convicted of second-degree receive an automatic life sentence. However, the judge can set their parole eligibility at anywhere between 10 and 25 years.
Second-degree murder is defined in the Code as all murders that are not first-degree but where the killing was still intentional. Generally speaking, it applies to those murders that take place in the “heat of the moment” and weren’t planned in advance. For example, a husband who had no plans to kills his wife but, once they start fighting, means to kill her, is guilty of second-degree murder. Like with first-degree, those convicted of second-degree receive an automatic life sentence. However, the judge can set their parole eligibility at anywhere between 10 and 25 years."

The punishment varies from state to state. In Florida it is up to 30 years to life.

 

[TxLady2]

I was really shocked and disappointed today to hear that the State will finish after one more full day of testimony. There is so much more that they could bring into evidence regarding KC's behaviors and character via her "picture gallery" (1,000s of images), pings (re where she was and when and how she was sneaking in and out of the house according to her parent's work schedule), her constant, over the top, use of pc/laptop, phone, text, etc...(how she could have possibly been responsibly caring for a child with all of this is startling) also, she never slept! LOTS and lots of bizarre strangeness that could have given a glimpse into who she was and what she was doing...

I hope that as a "layman" I'm not getting it. They've brought lots of evidence in for sure but they still haven't painted the full picture of who she truly is!

They haven't done "beyond reasonable doubt" yet and for those of us who have been following since the beginning, it's disappointing as we know well that there isn't a "reasonable doubt"!

I hope I'm wrong and that there are other strategies in play.

moo

I think playing those jailhouse videos with Casey gave the jury a pretty good look at who Casey Anthony really is. We got to see some parts of those visits that were not shown on the NG show, or at least some parts that I never saw.
I don't think the state is lacking anything, I think they have presented their case pretty well. And some of these witnesses who could testify to her character and the things she was doing before and after Caylee died MAY be put on the stand during the penalty phase, to show that she had no real concern for Caylee. JMO

 

[sophie01]

those dang "home depot" videos are still missing....wonder if home depot sold the laundry bags back then? wonder if ICA is on video purchasing them?? maybe we will see them today?? One can hope.....

I have a question .... is during this trial the first time we hsve heard mention of a home depot tape? I don't recall ever hearing before trial, and wonder if it is even true.

 

[sophie01]

I would like the state to make it clear that the duct tape didn't need to cover both her nose and mouth in order for Caylee to die from it. Even if it only covered her mouth (so that Caylee couldn't make much noise if she woke up) when she woke up, she would have been scared and started crying.

She would suffocate within a couple of minutes by not being able to inhale enough air through her nose.

Terrified and all alone, in the dark while 'mommy' went to Blockbusters then watched a couple of movies with TL.

Your right... not only that ... she could have made herself sick from crying, thown up and aspirated. I suppose they ( SA ) did the best the could... wish I was more comfortable with that .

 

[azscr4mbl3r]

I have come to believe we...well ME ... are so focused on filling in the holes in the story we ... ME.... forget it is circumstantial and sadly we won't get the holes filled in. I am still hopeful they can place her with the car during a more damaging period.... Like a video at amscot IE. I am still stuck with there was a dead body in the car and the car got dumped.
I think we all just wish things were more certain. I hope the jury doesn't over analyze like I do and just say well it was her car and she didn't report it stolen and there was a dead body in it. JB seems to be trying the penalty phase so that gives me hope.

 

[hpvdr]

Ummm... What would coming forward and saying it was an accident have accomplished once she was charged with murder? Other than giving away the defense's (IMO lousy) strategy? I see where you're coming from, but I don't think this would have any bearing on my decision if I were a juror. It'll be interesting to see if any of the jurors talk after the verdict and if so, find out what evidence weighed most heavily on their decision.

Guess I was thinking more along the lines of what ColoradoTeacher posted after my post on this thread:
"Circumstantial means that there might not be a direct link, but common sense makes that link.
I actually had jury duty today (I was not ultimately chosen )and part of the instructions said to use common sense when analyzing the evidence. I think the jurors in this trial will too."

Wasn't really saying that I was wondering why she didn't come clean in jail but as a juror I would say to myself WHY didn't she come clean, WHY didn't she try to figure it all out, if it was an accident?? Common sense as a juror would say to me Gee, if it was an accident and Casey had come clean some time in the past three years, the state might have worked something out with her, but instead Casey waited three years in jail, comes clean at the start of the trial through JB's opening statement, all the while still risking the death penalty.

I'm thrilled BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that jurors are told to use common sense, sure helped me to sleep better last night.

 

[Solace]

I think playing those jailhouse videos with Casey gave the jury a pretty good look at who Casey Anthony really is. We got to see some parts of those visits that were not shown on the NG show, or at least some parts that I never saw.
I don't think the state is lacking anything, I think they have presented their case pretty well. And some of these witnesses who could testify to her character and the things she was doing before and after Caylee died MAY be put on the stand during the penalty phase, to show that she had no real concern for Caylee. JMO

Exactly TxLady. If the State brings in ALL THE PINGS of KC's whereabouts, the jury would be inundated. They brought in all that is necessary to convict her. The tapes are indefensible. I thought they might bring in the "outline" of the baby in the trunk, which someone on this Board did an incredible job of showing, but I guess they thought it is too "speculative" and did not want to give the defense anything to speculate about.

KC's arrogance is beyond the limit in this case. I can see one getting "use to" all of it as KC appears to have done, but to laugh in court as she did yesterday when they were speaking about trash vs. garbage is not doing her any good at all. None. Having said that, I don't think it much matters. The evidence is soooooo overwhelming. The question now is life v. death.

To know that she "drove" around with Caylee in the trunk is beyond bizarre. This is the kind of thing serial killers do. And this is where Baez made the biggest blunder. He said George disposed of the body. And if that were true, that would mean George did not want anyone to find it. So whyyyyyy would he put the body in the trunk. He wouldn't. I realize that Baez is saying there was no body in the trunk. However, we have testimony from about 10 people and two dogs saying there was one and to this day, the car still smells.

She is in a very bad place and basically Baez put here there with this defense. She either takes the stand and defends the sexual abuse allegation or she lets Baez do his thing, which on opening, failed miserably. Now he has to prove this with his witnesses and who is he going to get.

 

[debbie0604]

In my opinion, we have to consider that we have read all of the discovery and the jurors have not. So we know more than the jurors know. I try to put myself in the jurors position, and see things the way they are seeing it. So far the state has shown evidence that KC is a liar who manipulated her parents, friends and boyfriend, had them believing that she worked for years as an event planner or coordinater at Universal. She sometimes wore (or carried) a lanyard with a Universal ID to enhance this lie, and also carried and "use" this laptop as if she was "working". She built this Zanaida story up to the hilt with her mother, IMO, and was possibly using internet searches such as 'chest trauma', 'spleen injury', etc. to enhance her lie regarding Zanny's car accident and hospitalization in Tampa should Cindy ask questions regarding Zanny's injuries (since Cindy is a nurse).

Because the state does not have to prove motive, and because this is definitely "no accident," (clearly because of duct tape on the mouth) and because KC and KC alone had the car, and there was definitely decomposition in the car based on witness testimony, Caylee's body was in the car while KC drove the car. KC dumped poor Caylee's body in the woods in July based on Dr. Haskell's testimony and Dr. G's testimony. Because KC lies and is now throwing GA into the mix, I think it's severely damaging to her that she would do this. JMO so far.

 

[TexasDoll]

x-posted...

Forgive me if this is a stupid question.

I didn't hear where the State hammered home the point that Caylee was found with a heart shaped sticker on her mouth?

It's like the State IS NOT "hammering home" any point, IMHO. Am I crazy? When will the State "bring this altogether" and hit it out of the park?

 

[leighg]

What the prosecution has proven so far, in my view, is that Caylee´s dead body was in the trunk of Casey´s car for three to five days. They have proven that Casey acted as if nothing had happened, partying, seeing friends, going about her life as she always had.
They have proven that she lied, lied and lied again (defense said that too in opening, so no surprise there).
But have they proven, so far, that Casey killed her daughter with pre-meditation? In my opinion NO. Not beyond reasonable doubt - and far from it. The internet searches are not enough. First of all, they cannot PROVE that it was Casey doing them, secondly, they cannot PROVE that those searches have anything to do with Caylee´s death.
And we haven´t even heard the defense yet!
Second degree murder is what I think the outcome will be judged from what I have seen and heard so far.
I am trying to put myself in the place of the jury, not expressing my real views.

I think Second Degree Murder will be what Casey will be convicted of.

"Second-degree murder is defined in the Code as all murders that are not first-degree but where the killing was still intentional. Generally speaking, it applies to those murders that take place in the “heat of the moment” and weren’t planned in advance. For example, a husband who had no plans to kills his wife but, once they start fighting, means to kill her, is guilty of second-degree murder. Like with first-degree, those convicted of second-degree receive an automatic life sentence. However, the judge can set their parole eligibility at anywhere between 10 and 25 years.
Second-degree murder is defined in the Code as all murders that are not first-degree but where the killing was still intentional. Generally speaking, it applies to those murders that take place in the “heat of the moment” and weren’t planned in advance. For example, a husband who had no plans to kills his wife but, once they start fighting, means to kill her, is guilty of second-degree murder. Like with first-degree, those convicted of second-degree receive an automatic life sentence. However, the judge can set their parole eligibility at anywhere between 10 and 25 years."

The punishment varies from state to state. In Florida it is up to 30 years to life.

I agree that they have not proven premeditation, but I do not believe that 2nd Degree Murder is one of the charges for which they can find her guilty? If I am wrong please let me know! Maybe I watch too much Law & order, and it may be different here in FL, but I believe the jury can only deliberate and vote on the charges against her. I remember a case on L&O where they eliminated manslaughter from the charges given to the jury and took a swing at 2nd Degree murder(I don't think murder 1 was allowed) because they didn't want to give the jury an 'out'. If I remember, it backfired and the defendant was found not guilty because the jury did not believe the motive.

I think either the SA will have to draw clear lines of poor parenting thru rebuttal witnesses to prove aggravated child abuse which is a criteria for 1st Degree murder or it will fall to the reasonable doubt of motive for murder and the jury will have the manslaughter charge to fall back on as they can not like nor trust the lying witch.

 

[strach304]

Her advance stories to GA and CA about working and spending the night with Zanny when she knew she had plans to stay with TL go to premeditation imo. No babysitter and TL didn't allow Caylee to sleep over.

I still think the SA need to show motive and ICA's chameleon like personality. More needs to be shown that disputes the good mom, never abused Caylee. They used RM even though he sold his story so imo Kio needs to testify. I'd like to see other family like RP and SP testify.

The 911 call about the protesters needs to be brought in with this new story of drowning and not calling 911. It clearly shows Casey has an independent mind and knows that is a natural reaction in emergencies.

GA and CA's supervisors showing they were at work during the pc searches. Cell phone ping expert who can explain to jury that Casey's pings on the day she claims she was home could also indicate she was in the area and not necessarily home. Any other pertinent ping activity that will show her sneaking into the home on crucial days like the time frame for the shovel, gas cans, etc.

I want more testimony about how obsessed Casey seemed to be with TL that may have played a crucial role in her decision to do what she did that day.

 

[strach304]

x-posted...

Forgive me if this is a stupid question.

I didn't hear where the State hammered home the point that Caylee was found with a heart shaped sticker on her mouth?

It's like the State IS NOT "hammering home" any point, IMHO. Am I crazy? When will the State "bring this altogether" and hit it out of the park?

Just thinking and hoping that JA does the closing or a shared closing with LDB. The evidence all laid out, the final story of what that evidence means told and deliberation.

 

[Puzzler]

I think the state has fallen down on motive--so far, anyway. Without a compelling motive brought into consideration, I think jurors are unlikely to find murder 1 proven beyond a reasonable doubt. :twocents:

 

[Roy23]

I am kind of surprised to see that some think the prosecution hasn't filled in all of the holes. This was probably the best prosecution I have ever seen in such a case that a COD wasn't determined. Once Dr. G got off the stand, I felt the State should hurry and conclude. I want that in the jury's mind and I believe she single handedly doomed them. That was the one person the defense should have just left alone.

I am ready for the Defense spin team. But ultimately I believe the jury will come back to Dr. G testimony that 100% of accidental drownings are called into 911. Add the duct tape over the mouth, decomposition in her car, Anthony personal items at the scene, her lying, not telling anyone that her daughter was missing for 31 days, avoiding her family, telling her Dad he was a great Dad and Grandfather in jail interviews, will do her in.

 

[bosslady31]

I did not read al the way through the thread, but I am curious about her diary and the entries she made on or around the day Caylee "went missing" saying she thinks she made the right decision and what not, and her new tattoo "the Beautiful life" will these br brought up?

 

[TorisMom003]

John Bradley - the computer expert witness from Canada - testified that Casey visited a site (how to make chloroform) 84 times. He didn't say when those 84 visits occured though. LDB did not follow through and didn't ask him that question either. I do wonder if the jury will want to know that (remember that there's at least one juror who does not own a computer -- who knows how computer literate the jury is -- did a lot of the computer forensics make sense to the jury? I worry about that.

I also wonder what motive if any the prosecution is going to go with? I know that they don't have to show motive but I wonder if they are going to show one?

My husband didn't follow this case at all until the trial started on TV and the internet, he never read any of the discovery materials, didn't watch any of the TV shows discussing this case, never read anything on the internet, i.e. he probably knew as much about this case as the jurors before this trial started. He has watched or listened to the trial online and he thinks it's a manslaughter case so far, not murder 1.

There is an IT guy on the jury. I'm sure that when the time comes for the jury to deliberate that he can answer any questions the rest may have about the computer and/or searches.