Where Precisely Do You Think Caylee Died?

[sarah7855]

I used to think this, too, until the duct tape findings.

I completely agree with you.

 

[snow_walker]

I think most of us went through a time when we thought the death was an accident, either the pool or forgotten in the car, or choking on a small toy or something.. When I first got interested in this case, it was as a 'supporter' of KC. I was a young single mother myself manyyears ago, I could just imagine how scared and heart sick I would have been had I somehow, negligently or accidently, killed my own child or let them come to harm. How stupidly I might have acted..

I mean I think I would have done all the right things.. tryed to save him, called the ambulance, stood up and told the truth to the authorities and my own family..and taken any punishment like an adult..but I could understand how horrible it would have been, and feel compassion for another young mother who just plain fell apart and 'ran away' from the situation.

However, as I looked at the known facts, it seemed impossible to imagine myself ever acting as KC is known to have acted after Caylee's death. Renting video's?? Partying?? The Good Life??? Stealing money?? then they found the duct tape .yeahit might have been put there post mortem to prevent decomp fluids leaking, but I know in my heart it wasn't.

 

[pistolina]

I’m not sure if Casey kept Caylee in the trunk before or not but I think she did on the afternoon/evening of June 16th because she was not going to let Cindy control her anymore.

I think Caylee died in the trunk of Casey’s car outside of Tony’s apartment. After an evening of watching movies Casey offered to take out the trash as an excuse to check on Caylee. But when she opened the trunk and saw Caylee, she knew that she was dead. Not knowing what to do she just put the trash bag in the trunk, closed it, and decided to deal with this horrible thing that happened another day.

 

[niaa]

I think in Casey's room since she had privacy and time.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

I still think the duct tape was a post mortem addition. We all know that KC doesn't think like the rest of us-I'm thinking it was her odd way of prepping the remains for disposal-(forgive me for being graphic, but) keeping critters out of orafices and such. The girl is not very mature and, her whole life, her only consistant coping mechanism is "lie and dissociate". I am NOT a KC supporter-have not been from the start-even as an accidental drowning, at this point, KC is still responsible for Caylees death (had she called 911 the child may have been salvagable-babies survive drownings all the time after pretty shocking time brackets). I'm just saying that, with all that has transpired and all that has been said, for whatever reason I keep coming back to "the baby drowned in the pool". Call it a feeling/hunch. Call it denial. Whatever it is-That's how I've ended up with it. IDK.

 

[KenoshaKid]

I still think the duct tape was a post mortem addition. We all know that KC doesn't think like the rest of us-I'm thinking it was her odd way of prepping the remains for disposal-(forgive me for being graphic, but) keeping critters out of orafices and such. The girl is not very mature and, her whole life, her only consistant coping mechanism is "lie and dissociate". I am NOT a KC supporter-have not been from the start-even as an accidental drowning, at this point, KC is still responsible for Caylees death (had she called 911 the child may have been salvagable-babies survive drownings all the time after pretty shocking time brackets). I'm just saying that, with all that has transpired and all that has been said, for whatever reason I keep coming back to "the baby drowned in the pool". Call it a feeling/hunch. Call it denial. Whatever it is-That's how I've ended up with it. IDK.

Then why leave the eyes and ears uncovered? Or the other orifices?

 

[Jolynna]

I still think the duct tape was a post mortem addition. We all know that KC doesn't think like the rest of us-I'm thinking it was her odd way of prepping the remains for disposal-(forgive me for being graphic, but) keeping critters out of orafices and such. The girl is not very mature and, her whole life, her only consistant coping mechanism is "lie and dissociate". I am NOT a KC supporter-have not been from the start-even as an accidental drowning, at this point, KC is still responsible for Caylees death (had she called 911 the child may have been salvagable-babies survive drownings all the time after pretty shocking time brackets). I'm just saying that, with all that has transpired and all that has been said, for whatever reason I keep coming back to "the baby drowned in the pool". Call it a feeling/hunch. Call it denial. Whatever it is-That's how I've ended up with it. IDK.

If KC had put duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose because of flies there would be casings on the tape.

http://entomology.montana.edu/historybug/gallery/house_fly_stages_photo.htm

No insect residue and I'd say the tape was probably put on before flies landed to lay eggs--when Caylee was alive. I don't see that KC did anything ritually to memorialize Caylee's death or keep her pretty. Caylee had silver duct tape over her face & was was wearing a t-shirt saying "big trouble coming in small packages". No jewelry, special toy, sunglasses or any of the things Caylee loved.

 

[miabellamoure]

If KC had put duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose because of flies there would be casings on the tape.

http://entomology.montana.edu/historybug/gallery/house_fly_stages_photo.htm

No insect residue and I'd say the tape was probably put on before flies landed to lay eggs--like when Caylee was alive. I don't see that KC did anything ritually to memorialize Caylee's death or keep her pretty. Caylee had silver duct tape over her face was was wearing a t-shirt saying "big trouble coming in small packages". No jewelry, special toy, sunglasses or any of the things Caylee loved.

and, not even...Caylee's beloved Momma doll

 

[Clock's Tickin]

Oh no! I don't mean way post mortem. I mean immediately post mortem to prevent creepy crawlies...AND, if the tape was all the way around her head as suggested-ears would have been included prior to decomp. Also, whose to say that eyes were not somehow prepped as well and whatever was there (assuming not duct tape) left with time.

 

[wenwe4]

Then why leave the eyes and ears uncovered? Or the other orifices?

If Caylee did drown in the pool - then pool water would initially leak from the nose and mouth. Maybe KC tried to stop the leakage of pool water - not even considering the decomp fluids (her just reacting in the moment - which appears to be her MO). The "packaging" of the duct tape around nose & mouth would be to stop the initial leakage and the heart sticker was the bow on the top. I wouldn't be surprised if the ladder was tipped over in the pool for a couple of days - so KC could be questioned by her p's but when they didn't notice - she figured she better clean up the scene. (just a random thought)

 

[seagull65]

The death might have occurred right in the A home (not necessarily by Casey herself), or many other locales. Impossible to vote in this poll because so many possibilities left out, i.e. TL's apartment or complex, and many others.... Why would Casey tape Caylee's face like that in order to suffocate her? If she wanted to kill Caylee she could do it in ways that would look like an accident, accidental drowning in the pool, etc. Since suffocation could be accomplished other ways, I think whoever taped Caylee's mouth did it for the purpose of silencing her, most likely during an assault. Either Casey is still not sure what really happened or who did it, or she can't face her family or the authorities with what happened. Looks like she was either involved in the disposal of the body (or had to handle the disposal completely) and got supplies from her house just like she was always bringing stuff from her parents' house to TL's, or the death occurred there and that was why the items were used from the house, or else the perp had access to the laundry bag and other items, either from the A home or from Casey's car or maybe she had the items with her where she was staying. Seems like if she were the murderer, she would have removed the tape before disposing of the body. MOO

 

[The Eunice Burns]

The death might have occurred right in the A home (not necessarily by Casey herself), or many other locales. Impossible to vote in this poll because so many possibilities left out, i.e. TL's apartment or complex, and many others.... Why would Casey tape Caylee's face like that in order to suffocate her? If she wanted to kill Caylee she could do it in ways that would look like an accident, accidental drowning in the pool, etc. Since suffocation could be accomplished other ways, I think whoever taped Caylee's mouth did it for the purpose of silencing her, most likely during an assault. Either Casey is still not sure what really happened or who did it, or she can't face her family or the authorities with what happened. Looks like she was either involved in the disposal of the body (or had to handle the disposal completely) and got supplies from her house just like she was always bringing stuff from her parents' house to TL's, or the death occurred there and that was why the items were used from the house, or else the perp had access to the laundry bag and other items, either from the A home or from Casey's car or maybe she had the items with her where she was staying. Seems like if she were the murderer, she would have removed the tape before disposing of the body. MOO

I disagree. BBM I'll take just one of your points to respond to.....Then what was the heart sticker for on top of the tape? IMO, that was a personal touch, a sendoff, done by someone very close to Caylee, someone who likes hearts and heart stickers. You wouldn't add that evil touch and then remove the tape. The tape whether or not it was used to murder her, was an act of finality, even more so w/ the sticker on it.

 

[La.Sandy]

I disagree. BBM I'll take just one of your points to respond to.....Then what was the heart sticker for on top of the tape? IMO, that was a personal touch, a sendoff, done by someone very close to Caylee, someone who likes hearts and heart stickers. You wouldn't add that evil touch and then remove the tape. The tape whether or not it was used to murder her, was an act of finality, even more so w/ the sticker on it.

I think of that heart sticker on the tape as a kind of good-bye kiss.
:blowkiss:

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I am starting to lean towards Casey's bedroom. At first I was thinking that Casey wouldn't do it there (although that would seem the most convenient place with the timing for a rage-after-the-fight-with-Cindy incident) because Cindy or George might walk in on her and discover what she was doing/had done. But I have come to the conclusion that Casey's room was probably "off-limits" to George and Cindy while Casey was in it. Cindy's story about listening through the door and hearing them breathe leads me to believe that Casey had demanded that her parents respect her privacy. . . And she had them trained well. She may have even kept it locked to keep them out; it wouldn't surprise me.

How many countless times have we cracked open a bedroom door to check on the well being of our children or grandchildren? Even with (especially with) light sleepers we mothers have learned how to open that door quietly in our own homes. So Cindy's story holds no water with me.

So establishing, in my own mind, that privacy was not an issue for Casey I think she could have felt secure enough to take Caylee's life right there ~ right at the time she was angriest. Chloroform to render her unconscious and miles of duct tape to finish the job ~ just in case the chloroform didn't complete the task.

All that said, I reserve the right to change my mind by the next full moon or sooner as my theory mutates with each erudite posters' facts and theories I read.

 

[momtective]

The death might have occurred right in the A home (not necessarily by Casey herself), or many other locales. Impossible to vote in this poll because so many possibilities left out, i.e. TL's apartment or complex, and many others.... Why would Casey tape Caylee's face like that in order to suffocate her? If she wanted to kill Caylee she could do it in ways that would look like an accident, accidental drowning in the pool, etc. Since suffocation could be accomplished other ways, I think whoever taped Caylee's mouth did it for the purpose of silencing her, most likely during an assault. Either Casey is still not sure what really happened or who did it, or she can't face her family or the authorities with what happened. Looks like she was either involved in the disposal of the body (or had to handle the disposal completely) and got supplies from her house just like she was always bringing stuff from her parents' house to TL's, or the death occurred there and that was why the items were used from the house, or else the perp had access to the laundry bag and other items, either from the A home or from Casey's car or maybe she had the items with her where she was staying. Seems like if she were the murderer, she would have removed the tape before disposing of the body. MOO

okay!

 

[chefmom]

The death might have occurred right in the A home (not necessarily by Casey herself), or many other locales. Impossible to vote in this poll because so many possibilities left out, i.e. TL's apartment or complex, and many others.... Why would Casey tape Caylee's face like that in order to suffocate her? If she wanted to kill Caylee she could do it in ways that would look like an accident, accidental drowning in the pool, etc. Since suffocation could be accomplished other ways, I think whoever taped Caylee's mouth did it for the purpose of silencing her, most likely during an assault. Either Casey is still not sure what really happened or who did it, or she can't face her family or the authorities with what happened. Looks like she was either involved in the disposal of the body (or had to handle the disposal completely) and got supplies from her house just like she was always bringing stuff from her parents' house to TL's, or the death occurred there and that was why the items were used from the house, or else the perp had access to the laundry bag and other items, either from the A home or from Casey's car or maybe she had the items with her where she was staying. Seems like if she were the murderer, she would have removed the tape before disposing of the body. MOO

BBM

I see your point, but there are just so many oddities about this case that we could play the "Seems Like If" game all day long. KWIM? Lol! It seems like if she were the murderer, she would have dumped the body somewhere besides down the street and around the corner. It seems like if she were the murderer, she wouldn't have left so many items with the body that connect right back to her home. It seems like if she were the murderer, she would have at least faked SOME concern for her daughter while she was out on bond. But all joking aside, it seems that she did do all of these things, and it seems like she were the murderer. MOO.

 

[seagull65]

I disagree. BBM I'll take just one of your points to respond to.....Then what was the heart sticker for on top of the tape? IMO, that was a personal touch, a sendoff, done by someone very close to Caylee, someone who likes hearts and heart stickers. You wouldn't add that evil touch and then remove the tape. The tape whether or not it was used to murder her, was an act of finality, even more so w/ the sticker on it.

Nothing loving about the heart sticker, I can't rule it out being placed there by Casey but I think it's much more likely she would just remove the tape rather than placing a heart sticker over it. (For several reasons, regret, guilt, because she wouldn't like seeing Caylee with the tape on and would want her to look prettier, also to make the death appear less like a murder, also to try to erase what she'd done, because she's a neat freak and grooms obsessively, as well as to not leave the tape due to it matching back to the home, fingerprints, etc.) Casey's friends are known to use heart stickers on things (check out the picture of Samantha holding her phone that's covered with heart stickers for example, you know the ones where they're in her van or SUV). KMTC also describes burying her pets with bags and hearts, quite near there (it wasn't Casey burying her own pets that way as has been widely misquoted). The sticker could have been put there as a message to Casey, or just a sick touch by a pedophile. I do think the heart is a cruel message, not a kiss goodbye. It was for display, that's why the tape wasn't removed, because this person likes to display their cruelty to be found, no desire to cover it up or make it look less awful. The sticker could have been obtained at the same time as the other objects (from Casey's car or home), or if it was a message to Casey, could have been from something Casey had given to that person with the sticker on it. As I've always said, I can't rule Casey out, if she were totally wasted or something, for example. It just doesn't fit with her history/m.o./treatment of Caylee up to that point. Anyway, back to the poll, interesting poll and it's a shame there weren't more options. But it could be any of those locations.

 

[seagull65]

BBM

and it seems like she were the murderer. MOO.

Very witty, I liked this

I know what you mean regarding the guessing game. There are simply so many people who were around Casey and Caylee right before her murder/disappearance like TL and the other people in and around his apartment, the Fusian friends, the DBC guys Tony was looking for the apartment with, etc, KC's LakeVaj/CastIron friends, the Sawgrass/DRFord friends and people from JPC's apartment and Jacksonville(RM/TB/AH) and many others, and SO many oddities in this case. You literally could play the guessing game all day. And I have!

Or, as many have chosen, you could just go with the (also very bizarre) story about how she just up and decided to murder her child one day to be free or out of spite or both, and chose duct tape as the means instead of "accidental" drowning in the pool etc, and decided to decorate the duct tape with a heart (without being insane though of course, it's taboo to mention insanity because that could be thought of as mitigating), and to leave the body with the tape and heart displayed on it right near her house, and supply this theory with all sorts of details right down to the supposedly sick psychology of every member of her family, and even which room it happened in and what the family members had been saying to each other preceding the attack with the duct tape and hearts! And then just stick with this particular, highly detailed theory and ridicule and basically try to chase off anyone who tries to discuss any of the other possibilities in the case. (Please note, I don't think you have done this. We have some here who do though and we see a bit of it surfacing in this thread.) I can't rule out this particular bizarre theory, because I know bizarre things can and do happen. When you have a little girl dead and disposed of in this manner, something very bizarre has happened. But I don't exclusively consider this particular theory, I try to look equally at every possibility. I think the answer will be bizarre, regardless, but could be something relatively simple that was overlooked due to Casey's behaviors/lying. Trust me, I don't rule her out either, or even the details of the popular theory. It could have happened.

 

[chefmom]

Very witty, I liked this

I know what you mean regarding the guessing game. There are simply so many people who were around Casey and Caylee right before her murder/disappearance like TL and the other people in and around his apartment, the Fusian friends, the DBC guys Tony was looking for the apartment with, etc, KC's LakeVaj/CastIron friends, the Sawgrass/DRFord friends and people from JPC's apartment and Jacksonville(RM/TB/AH) and many others, and SO many oddities in this case. You literally could play the guessing game all day. And I have!

Or, as many have chosen, you could just go with the (also very bizarre) story about how she just up and decided to murder her child one day to be free or out of spite or both, and chose duct tape as the means instead of "accidental" drowning in the pool etc, and decided to decorate the duct tape with a heart (without being insane though of course, it's taboo to mention insanity because that could be thought of as mitigating), and to leave the body with the tape and heart displayed on it right near her house, and supply this theory with all sorts of details right down to the supposedly sick psychology of every member of her family, and even which room it happened in and what the family members had been saying to each other preceding the attack with the duct tape and hearts! And then just stick with this particular, highly detailed theory and ridicule and basically try to chase off anyone who tries to discuss any of the other possibilities in the case. (Please note, I don't think you have done this. We have some here who do though and we see a bit of it surfacing in this thread.) I can't rule out this particular bizarre theory, because I know bizarre things can and do happen. When you have a little girl dead and disposed of in this manner, something very bizarre has happened. But I don't exclusively consider this particular theory, I try to look equally at every possibility. I think the answer will be bizarre, regardless, but could be something relatively simple that was overlooked due to Casey's behaviors/lying. Trust me, I don't rule her out either, or even the details of the popular theory. It could have happened.

Well said! No worries, Seagull. I know that the opinions of her guilt and or degrees of her involvement are many and varied, as it should be. A jury will decide for sure, and we will all have more info when this case goes to trial. I completely agree that no matter what someone may think about whether KC is guilty or not, this case is certainly bizarre, and therefore we may not be able to take everything we think we know at face value, as there are just so many uncertainties. And, yes, it seems insane almost to just think that KC just woke up one day and decided to get rid of her baby girl and then dumped her down the street. Insane being the operative word here, because if she did do this, she has to be extremely sick in the head. If someone else did do this, then I pray that LE or JB or someone will show the connection because the only thing that I care about is seeing justice served for that precious little girl, Caylee. As long as the right person pays for what they did to her, I will be a happy sleuther! KWIM?

 

[coco puff]

If you carry stickers around in your purse it caused them to loose the sticky and ruins them. Kind of like chapstick with the lid off. Every piece of lint and dirt attaches itself to it. We know that the heart sticker have plenty of stick on it because it was left on the tape. Someone put a fresh heart sticker on the duct tape, not one that has been rolling around in a pocket book or a car. Find the place where the stickers were kept and you find the murder site.