White Truck Focus and second person in truck.

[Morag]

To be fair, have you visited the site, or looked at the photos. From where he was working, there is a LOT (most) that he couldn't see, and little danger of kids running in front of him or walkers crossing his path.

Sorry, just feeling argumentative I guess.

It's not that he could or would see everything, but a perp should fear that he would. And even if there's only a little danger of the kids walking in front of him, a professional turf technician should fear that it could happen.

If I were kidnapping a child, I wouldn't do it with a witness only a few dozen yards away. And if I were mowing a field at a school, I would be looking constantly for little people to be moving in my direction.

I would definitely do my kidnapping on a non-mowing day, and I would definitely do my mowing in a hyper-alert manner. But that's just me....

 

[Donjeta]

I suppose he may have been very alert to people moving in his immediate vicinity and on the borders of the field he was mowing but IMO it doesn't mean that he paid that much attention to vehicles parked at a distance and people at a distance who did not seem to be moving towards him and his mower.

 

[Dee10]

Didn't the the guy mowing the lawn said he finished around 8:30? TH left around 9:00 according to LE, instead of 8:45 according to TH. If he was right on the time he finished, wouldn't he be long gone? If so, his testimony doesn't mean much according to the timeline IMO.

 

[Morag]

Didn't the the guy mowing the lawn said he finished around 8:30? TH left around 9:00 according to LE, instead of 8:45 according to TH. If he was right on the time he finished, wouldn't he be long gone? If so, his testimony doesn't mean much according to the timeline IMO.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100663409.html
...
He met with two detectives and a deputy district attorney at Skyline School early Friday to go over his timeline in detail.

Stensen told investigators that he left Skyline School as late as 8:45 a.m. or 9 a.m., which means he could have missed seeing the Horman truck being in the two spots investigators are interested in, especially since he spent his time and attention at the school mowing the soccer field.

BBM
So, yes, he could have missed seeing the truck, but would he have seen someone/anyone leaving from that door near Kyron's classroom?

 

[cypress]

Didn't the the guy mowing the lawn said he finished around 8:30? TH left around 9:00 according to LE, instead of 8:45 according to TH. If he was right on the time he finished, wouldn't he be long gone? If so, his testimony doesn't mean much according to the timeline IMO.

Yes, he said he finished mowing around 8:30, but that he left between 8:45 and 9:00.

So, if Terri or an accomplice was on the access road, there's a good chance he would've seen her, the other person, or he would've run into her. Literally.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100663409.html

Stensen told investigators that he left Skyline School as late as 8:45 a.m. or 9 a.m.,[...]

 

[Donjeta]

BBM
So, yes, he could have missed seeing the truck, but would he have seen someone/anyone leaving from that door near Kyron's classroom?

Judging from this pic, I'm gonna say maybe or maybe not. If he happens to be mowing the other direction and looks the other way when people come out of the door and the people don't linger there IMO it is possible for them to be concealed by the trees or the buildings and cars by the time he looks again.

But it appears Kyron was seen inside the school after he was finished mowing. He's not sure exactly when he left and if it's in the early range maybe the GK was already gone by the time whatever happened to Kyron.

What did he do between 8:30 when he finished mowing and 8:45 or 9:00 when he left the school area? It might have a bearing on what he saw because he wouldn't be worrying as much about children getting under his mower if he had stopped and was cleaning it up etc. Depending on where he was he might have seen better or worse than when mowing.

 

[SacreBleu]

Okay, because WS is about brainstorming, I'm going to throw this out there. It doesn't mean that I believe this is what happened...I'm just throwing out for discussion:

Terri was a very active parent at Skyline. Might she have gotten access to the key that opened that side door? Might she, after waving goodbye to Kyron, exited and made her way back to the side door, opened it with her secreted key, got Ky's attention before he got to his classroom and exited with him back through that side door and down the access road to the truck? This would have been a great intrigue for a 7-year old, no? Turf Guy was concerned about a group of kids he saw, but he might not have given a second thought to a kid with his Mom...

Yes, I do plan to write a novel one day.

 

[scandi]

Judging from this pic, I'm gonna say maybe or maybe not. If he happens to be mowing the other direction and looks the other way when people come out of the door and the people don't linger there IMO it is possible for them to be concealed by the trees or the buildings and cars by the time he looks again.

But it appears Kyron was seen inside the school after he was finished mowing. He's not sure exactly when he left and if it's in the early range maybe the GK was already gone by the time whatever happened to Kyron.

What did he do between 8:30 when he finished mowing and 8:45 or 9:00 when he left the school area? It might have a bearing on what he saw because he wouldn't be worrying as much about children getting under his mower if he had stopped and was cleaning it up etc. Depending on where he was he might have seen better or worse than when mowing.

Hi, That is a lovely photo of the school campus. I just wanted to point out that at the time of Kyron's going missing it was not at all as beautifully manicured as it appears here. There was allot more foliage especially in front of the school and by the access road. If one were parked back on the soccer field they would not to be able to see that road at all. And with the fact the school was built on what I call a daylight basement lot, if you were parked on the soccer field, I doubt you would be able to see a child walk out that w door closest to Kyron's classroom. It is up quite a bit higher in elevation than the soccer field. I read he saw two students walk over to a little garden they had. I don't know where it is located. xox

 

[tabacue]

Okay, because WS is about brainstorming, I'm going to throw this out there. It doesn't mean that I believe this is what happened...I'm just throwing out for discussion:

Terri was a very active parent at Skyline. Might she have gotten access to the key that opened that side door? Might she, after waving goodbye to Kyron, exited and made her way back to the side door, opened it with her secreted key, got Ky's attention before he got to his classroom and exited with him back through that side door and down the access road to the truck? This would have been a great intrigue for a 7-year old, no? Turf Guy was concerned about a group of kids he saw, but he might not have given a second thought to a kid with his Mom...

Yes, I do plan to write a novel one day.

I don't think your idea is far-fetched. I know it has been reported that TH was a "reading specialist" at Skyline....don't have time to search for the link, but below is a "linkedin" resume of sorts for her that lists her as a Reading Specialist. This may have been a fancy word for volunteer that reads to the kids, but it would have given her some sort of access.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/terrihorman

I just strongly believe that if she left with him that day, she walked right out with him (wherever she parked) and no one noticed.

I work backwards in threads I haven't read so I just started this one. This could have already been mentioned, but I wonder if there is any possibility that the second person people saw was actually Kyron. If the windows were tinted or they were far away, they wouldn't have been able to see all that well. I haven't seen a physical description of the suspected second person. One of my little ones like to sit on his knees or feet, which would make him look much taller (before the car is started of course). In a glance, might be mistaken for an adult.

 

[Morag]

Just bringing this related post over from another thread.


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5560990&postcount=9"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 8/27: KGW-TV Interview with Desiree and Kaine[/ame]

Thread: 8/27: KGW-TV Interview with Desiree and Kaine View Single Post
#9 Yesterday, 10:07 PM
Chili Fries
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 954

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelainwi
Was I the only one that caught near the end when they asked about the truck that there is a witness that saw Kyron near the truck. Desiree said it and shortly afterward Kaine said they should not be talking about details from the tips.

Good catch, it's at the end of the second part. It sounded to me like the reporter had heard that info too. Kaine said it was a tip, and that the veracity of the tip still has to be fully determined. So someone says that Kyron was seen by the truck with an unknown person maybe in the truck. Desiree said that if true it would contradict Terri's timeline (did she send him out to the truck while she was inside?) and that it means Kyron saw stuff that he shouldn't have (maybe she just meant Kyron being around an unidentified person).

Here is the link to part 2:

http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman...101688128.html

Edit: Desiree asks why would Kyron even be outside the school, near a truck with somebody else in it. She says if the timeline plays out the way it supposedly did then it contradicts Terri's story. Kaine says they've been briefed on tips and until it's been confirmed and brought to the public he's not going to maintain a sense of false hope that it's real info, until LE says it's airtight.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Chili Fries; Yesterday at 10:23 PM.

 

[cluciano63]

So is it Kyron? Is he the 2nd person in or near the truck that investigators hope to find a collaborating witness to back-up a sighting? Or was it Kyron and another person?

I hope that Desiree's slip does not bring out the crazies, claiming they saw Kyron by the truck. But unless the media picks up on it, the bit in the interview could almost be overlooked.

If the witness is a good one and an adult, they probably have a sense of the time, in relation to where they were and what they were doing when they saw him. But LE would want at least one more witness.

OT, I wish we know more about the e-mails.

 

[cypress]

My question is this -- if LE had this information from the very beginning, say from the first set of questionnaires, why not release it? This second person, likely a man, is involved in a kidnapping. If the witness is credible, and sure of what he/she saw, then this second person in the truck needs to be identified so that Kyron can be brought home. LE didn't delay in releasing a questionnaire with Terri's picture on it along with pictures of the truck, so why not release a composite of the man so that the public can help identify him?

Or, did a parent come forward after over two months, suddenly remembering he/she saw Kyron and another person near the white truck? The parents and students of Skyline were interviewed multiple times. The first questionnaire was sent to the parents and students of Skyline. Is it feasible that someone didn't remember this piece of information after being interviewed, after questionnaires, after two months of non-stop coverage, after multiple news conferences and interviews with the parents, and then suddenly, two months later, they remembered? Is their memory more stable two months after the fact than it was in the days following Kyron's abduction?

Why is it that children who saw Kyron that day and gave details shortly after the fact are dismissed but a witness who comes forward two months after the fact is given so much credence? Is it because the children don't fall in line with the accepted theory, and the mystery witness does?

IMHO, if the witness had emerged after the first batch of questionnaires, he/she would be more credible, but two months after the fact is iffy for me. Also, were there any other white trucks at Skyline that day (other than Turf Tech's)? Were those trucks driven by father's who have sons with a passing resemblance to Kyron?

It seems a little ridiculous to me that Terri would go to all the trouble to establish her alibi at the school, and then have her accomplice use Kaine's truck to abduct Kyron in full view of more witnesses than would have been there on a normal school day.

 

[BeanE]

White truck transciption

Kaine Horman & Desiree Young 8/27 pt.2
Video: http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horma...-kyron-horman-missing-portland-101688128.html

-2:50

Chit chat from reporter in the beginning not included. Only what's needed from her for context.

Reporter: Potentially one person in the truck... three people... the white truck, Terri's truck... can you talk...

Desiree: (interrupts) Kaine's truck (laughs)

Reporter: a little bit about that...

Reporter: Kaine's truck. I'm sorry... What are your thoughts on that new information? Do you feel as though Dede was in that truck?

Desiree: (interrupts) It just makes me feel stronger that, that there were people helping her... that Kyron saw it all and was involved and that there were other people helping her... which is what we suspected.

Reporter: So because... but do you believe that a man was spotted? I mean again, these are witness accounts, and I don't know how much information that you've been privy to about what the, what is the likeliest scenario?

Desiree: Well first of all, why would Kyron even be outside the school? Why would he even be near a truck with somebody else in it?

You know. I mean it's significant in a huge way to the case. If the timeline played out the way that it supposedly did? That contradicts that completely.

So I mean, other than that (shrugs), that's how significant it was to me.

Reporter: How authentic do you think that witness is? I mean how...

Desiree: (interrupts, shifts eyes to side) Very authentic.

Reporter: So it's a credible...

Desiree: (interrupts, shifts eyes to side and down) Yep.

Reporter: ...witness.

Reporter: And what exactly are they claiming that they saw?

Kaine: (audibly sighs/intakes breath, clears throat)

Kaine: Well I think, Sarah, I think to be more direct about it... I think that law enforcement needs to determine that still.

Desiree: Yeah, that part.

Kaine: We've been briefed on a lot of the information and the tips and the things that they're looking into, and that was part of that bucket of tips that they're...

Desiree: (interrupts) Yeah.

Kaine: ...that they're working their way through. Until they confirm and until they bring some of that information forward to the greater public, they're still looking into it, so I think us commenting on that is a little bit premature.

There's how we feel about it...

Desiree: (interrupts) Yeah.

Kaine: ...and then there are the facts. And the facts...

Reporter: (interrupts) How do you feel about it?

Kaine: How do I feel about it? I feel it's definitely significant. I don't know how credible the sources are. I'm hoping that they are because it helps us bring more of those pieces that we talked about before, the puzzle, in to paint the bigger picture, but until they're confirmed, I'm not going to maintain a sense of false hope that they're valid, until they're actually valid, until I see them and get from law enforcement that yep, this is verified, this is air tight, this is another piece that we found, and then I will believe it.

Desiree: Yeah.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I'm sorry.I'm a little confused.Someone saw Kyron near a truck with another man?where was the truck on that other side road near the soccer field?I don't feel this was Terri.I feel this was someone else and a different truck.

 

[Chili Fries]

I think this is interesting, maybe it's been posted but I haven't seen it...

If you look at the Google Maps streetview in front of Skyline school, a recent replacement photo appears. Here is the photo:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=11646+NW+Skyline+Blvd,+Portland,+OR+97231&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=11646+NW+Skyline+Blvd,+Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon+97231&gl=us&ei=ZlF5TLS7LIX7lweQu8TsCw&ved=0CBQQ8gEwAA&ll=45.606953,-122.857189&spn=0,0.030899&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.60687,-122.856894&panoid=HwS_vGof2EMvAfGbMCvI5g&cbp=12,32.24,,0,25.56

It was taken during the late spring or summer, all of the other streetview pictures of the areas along Skyline Blvd and Brooks Rd (and in the surrounding area) were taken in the fall or winter when there were no leaves on the trees. Here is the picture directly next to the replacement picture:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=11646+NW+Skyline+Blvd,+Portland,+OR+97231&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=11646+NW+Skyline+Blvd,+Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon+97231&gl=us&ei=ZlF5TLS7LIX7lweQu8TsCw&ved=0CBQQ8gEwAA&layer=c&cbll=45.606807,-122.856653&panoid=QCyhQCtCLmnZq8VPaSFEYA&cbp=12,0.12,,0,21.48&ll=45.606877,-122.856867&spn=0.009952,0.022724&z=16

It's also obvious that the summer picture is at least fairly recent because it is a higher definition picture, like Google is now using for their streetview pics.

So why was this one particular streetview picture replaced? In the Somer Thompson case a streetview picture of two girls who very much resembled Somer and her sister was removed during the investigation. A blank spot was left there, the picture was not replaced. I think in Kyron's case the replacement picture may give us a clue about when they learned that Terri's truck may have been parked in front of the school. If you notice in the replacement picture there is no Wall of Hope on the fence in front of the school. I believe the Wall of Hope was started a couple of weeks after Kyron went missing so the replacement streetview picture must have been taken before that. If the replacement picture is due to the Kyron investigation, and I think it likely is, then it tells me that LE knew about Terri's truck possibly being in front of the school early in the investigation.

Any thoughts on this? You can see the school sign in the replacement picture but you can't make out what it says and I haven't found another dated picture of it yet to give the replacement picture a definite time frame. Why would they replace that picture? The old one was obviously from the fall/winter, not the day Kyron went missing. And you can still see that area on the adjacent pictures.

 

[Morag]

I think this is interesting, maybe it's been posted but I haven't seen it...

If you look at the Google Maps streetview in front of Skyline school, a recent replacement photo appears. Here is the photo:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=11646+NW+Skyline+Blvd,+Portland,+OR+97231&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=11646+NW+Skyline+Blvd,+Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon+97231&gl=us&ei=ZlF5TLS7LIX7lweQu8TsCw&ved=0CBQQ8gEwAA&ll=45.606953,-122.857189&spn=0,0.030899&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.60687,-122.856894&panoid=HwS_vGof2EMvAfGbMCvI5g&cbp=12,32.24,,0,25.56

It was taken during the late spring or summer, all of the other streetview pictures of the areas along Skyline Blvd and Brooks Rd (and in the surrounding area) were taken in the fall or winter when there were no leaves on the trees. Here is the picture directly next to the replacement picture:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=11646+NW+Skyline+Blvd,+Portland,+OR+97231&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=11646+NW+Skyline+Blvd,+Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon+97231&gl=us&ei=ZlF5TLS7LIX7lweQu8TsCw&ved=0CBQQ8gEwAA&layer=c&cbll=45.606807,-122.856653&panoid=QCyhQCtCLmnZq8VPaSFEYA&cbp=12,0.12,,0,21.48&ll=45.606877,-122.856867&spn=0.009952,0.022724&z=16

It's also obvious that the summer picture is at least fairly recent because it is a higher definition picture, like Google is now using for their streetview pics.

So why was this one particular streetview picture replaced? In the Somer Thompson case a streetview picture of two girls who very much resembled Somer and her sister was removed during the investigation. A blank spot was left there, the picture was not replaced. I think in Kyron's case the replacement picture may give us a clue about when they learned that Terri's truck may have been parked in front of the school. If you notice in the replacement picture there is no Wall of Hope on the fence in front of the school. I believe the Wall of Hope was started a couple of weeks after Kyron went missing so the replacement streetview picture must have been taken before that. If the replacement picture is due to the Kyron investigation, and I think it likely is, then it tells me that LE knew about Terri's truck possibly being in front of the school early in the investigation.

Any thoughts on this? You can see the school sign in the replacement picture but you can't make out what it says and I haven't found another dated picture of it yet to give the replacement picture a definite time frame. Why would they replace that picture? The old one was obviously from the fall/winter, not the day Kyron went missing. And you can still see that area on the adjacent pictures.

Very interesting...but it might be something as simple as curiosity on the part of the google van drivers- just wanted to see what was happening out there, and made a replacement picture while they were at it. If someone has a big screen tv they can hook their laptop up to, maybe they can read the sign! No matter how cleverly I zoomed, I couldn't quite read what it said.

 

[pdx]

Any thoughts on this? You can see the school sign in the replacement picture but you can't make out what it says and I haven't found another dated picture of it yet to give the replacement picture a definite time frame. Why would they replace that picture? The old one was obviously from the fall/winter, not the day Kyron went missing. And you can still see that area on the adjacent pictures.

That's trippy; Good catch!

In the fall/winter ones, the Skyline School sign isn't there? And there appears to be a blue portapotty in the background. But, that pile of dirt is still sitting there at the top of the access road. But why is that section of the photo foggy?

 

[Chili Fries]

But why is that section of the photo foggy?

It's a smudge on the camera lens, you can see it in the other photos facing that way.

 

[debirlfan]

Reporter: Kaine's truck. I'm sorry... What are your thoughts on that new information? Do you feel as though Dede was in that truck?

Desiree: (interrupts) It just makes me feel stronger that, that there were people helping her... that Kyron saw it all and was involved and that there were other people helping her... which is what we suspected.

I found that statement interesting. "Kyron saw it all and was involved."

Could Desiree be suggesting that Kyron may have been a willing participant in his kidnapping?

I've always thought it was possible that he might have been very attached to TH, and that she might have told him that she and Kaine were splitting, and that unless he went with her, she would never see him again (or something along those lines) and convinced him to go willingly. If so, I think that would increase the odds that he might have snuck out of the school unseen - because he KNEW he was sneaking and had to avoid being seen, rather than just that he was going to the doctor and it didn't matter if anyone saw him.

 

[debs]

I found that statement interesting. "Kyron saw it all and was involved."

Could Desiree be suggesting that Kyron may have been a willing participant in his kidnapping?

I've always thought it was possible that he might have been very attached to TH, and that she might have told him that she and Kaine were splitting, and that unless he went with her, she would never see him again (or something along those lines) and convinced him to go willingly. If so, I think that would increase the odds that he might have snuck out of the school unseen - because he KNEW he was sneaking and had to avoid being seen, rather than just that he was going to the doctor and it didn't matter if anyone saw him.

This is the first plausible theory I have read. THANKS!