Whitney Houston passed away on 2/11/12 - Part 1

[Quiche]

I haven't clicked on every link and seen little of the TV coverage-- but, I'm intrigued by the position her body was found in the bathtub. Can anyone tell me if it was an oversized/extra long type bath? Because I know that it's pretty easy to slide down and sort of swim in a long tub. IOW, if she died, her body laying on her back, slumped then bobbed freely in the water, couldn't she end up face down?

Also, after listening to a few of her combative interviews, seeing the pictures of the night before, I have to admit I think she could have blown her own circuitry without being freshly inebriated. I'm certain she must have been feeling hungover (at best), and I imagine she could have been hypertensive (again, at best) in a natural state.

I see a perfect storm, intoxicated at the moment or not-- she was a high strung individual who'd abused her body for years, perhaps this string of parties were simply her last straw.

jmo

 

[gngr~snap]

I haven't clicked on every link and seen little of the TV coverage-- but, I'm intrigued by the position her body was found in the bathtub. Can anyone tell me if it was an oversized/extra long type bath? Because I know that it's pretty easy to slide down and sort of swim in a long tub. IOW, if she died, her body laying on her back, slumped then bobbed freely in the water, couldn't she end up face down?

Also, after listening to a few of her combative interviews, seeing the pictures of the night before, I have to admit I think she could have blown her own circuitry without being freshly inebriated. I'm certain she must have been feeling hungover (at best), and I imagine she could have been hypertensive (again, at best) in a natural state.

I see a perfect storm, intoxicated at the moment or not-- she was a high strung individual who'd abused her body for years, perhaps this string of parties were simply her last straw.

jmo

 

[JDB]

Stupid? Who said she was stupid? You obviously don't understand addiction. It's not a matter of realizing what the addiction has affected you and deciding to "get clean and be a proper mother." It's a SICKNESS. If she were clean and sober and saw the situation clearly, then yes she definitely would agree with you that that is what she needed to do. But an addict doesn't have insight. And as much as they may want to quit, the truth is most alcoholics/addicts are never able to beat their addiction.

I have to disagree with your last statement. I am an alcoholic and I beat my addiction. Why because I wanted to. I saw what it was doing to me my family and the ones I cared about. I had a choice the bottle or lose everything. I beat the addiction . As of March 1st it will be two years. Alcoholism is a disease that is treatable but first the person has to be willing to take that first step.

 

[OneLostGrl]

If it's true she had 3 different prescriptions for Benzo's I have all the answers I need. So sad

 

[Quiche]

Thank you! Exactly what I envisioned.

 

[cluciano63]

I have to disagree with your last statement. I am an alcoholic and I beat my addiction. Why because I wanted to. I saw what it was doing to me my family and the ones I cared about. I had a choice the bottle or lose everything. I beat the addiction . As of March 1st it will be two years. Alcoholism is a disease that is treatable but first the person has to be willing to take that first step.

You must be a very strong and determined person...but I have to agree with the poster's last statement that most addicts do not beat the disease. And some try, and still can't manage it.

I lost my sister to alcohol and she did try several times, to "take the cure", as it were, and often felt she had beaten it, writing such optimistic, heartbreaking letters upon her return from rehab. She hated what she was doing and what was happening because of it, but she, at least, was not strong enough to overcome her addiction. I think many people try, with the best intentions, but still can't win. And she was hardly surrounded by "enablers" as Whitney likely was, willing to do her bidding and fetch and carry, etc...JMO

All the best to you and congratulations on your willpower and courage, it is a huge achievement.

 

[Luzianne]

I have to disagree with your last statement. I am an alcoholic and I beat my addiction. Why because I wanted to. I saw what it was doing to me my family and the ones I cared about. I had a choice the bottle or lose everything. I beat the addiction . As of March 1st it will be two years. Alcoholism is a disease that is treatable but first the person has to be willing to take that first step.

But statistics show that most alcoholics/addicts do not achieve lifetime sobriety. And Jane Velez-Mitchell, who is also an addict with almost 18 years of sobriety, just said a few hours ago that when someone has the substance in them, THEY ARE NOT ACCOUNTABLE/CANNOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. Having the insight to take that first step is a problem. There needs to be a moment of clarity for an addict to decide that they want to stop. Most addicts don't get to that point. Under The Influence is a wonderful book that explains alcoholism very well.

For one, it says:

Myth: An alcoholic has to want help to be helped.

Reality: Most drinking alcoholics do not want to be helped. They are sick, unable to think rationally, and incapable of giving up alcohol by themselves. Most recovered alcoholics were forced into treatment against their will. Self-motivation usually occurs during treatment, not before.

http://www.lakesidemilam.com/DiseaseOfAddictionExpandedOverview.htm

http://www.lakesidemilam.com/UnderTheInfluence.htm

 

[OneLostGrl]

I have to disagree with your last statement. I am an alcoholic and I beat my addiction. Why because I wanted to. I saw what it was doing to me my family and the ones I cared about. I had a choice the bottle or lose everything. I beat the addiction . As of March 1st it will be two years. Alcoholism is a disease that is treatable but first the person has to be willing to take that first step.

Some of us can't quit. Some addicts, many addicts never get clean. I lost a father, a step father (though not a "father" in any sense, just the man who married my mother) an uncle and a cousin to addiction/suicide. My uncle killed himself because he felt he'd never get clean and wanted to spare his kids growing up with addict. He couldn't reason, the man chose death over wellness because he didn't think he was strong enough.. because the addiction took over his ability to see things clearly.

Me? It took far more then hurting those I loved to make me change, I justified my actions and in my sick mind everyone else had the problem, not me. We do that, many addicts, to remain in our addiction. I lost my marriage, sold pills, lived in my car and gained 3 felonies before I got well. Some of us have deeper bottoms and some addicts never climb out no matter who they hurt.. including themselves. The disease is treatable but it never goes away.

So glad you got well!

 

[JDB]

You must be a very strong and determined person...but I have to agree with the poster's last statement that most addicts do not beat the disease. And some try, and still can't manage it.

I lost my sister to alcohol and she did try several times, to "take the cure", as it were, and often felt she had beaten it, writing such optimistic, heartbreaking letters upon her return from rehab. She hated what she was doing and what was happening because of it, but she, at least, was not strong enough to overcome her addiction. I think many people try, with the best intentions, but still can't win. And she was hardly surrounded by "enablers" as Whitney likely was, willing to do her bidding and fetch and carry, etc...JMO

All the best to you and congratulations on your willpower and courage, it is a huge achievement.

I am sincerely sorry for your lost. That is why I made sure I stated that it is a disease. Have I beaten it I have no clue. But I know I have it. Just like a person that is diabetic .

 

[SuziQ]

O/T everyone should google Snoop and Martha Stewart. Funniest crap I've ever seen. 2 people that did not want to be in the same room, and they are cooking. I was wondering what the felon with felon show was about, some kind of community service punishment I suppose.

Snoop and Martha are hysterical. FWIW, Martha is a big rap fan (who knew?). Evidently she's good friends with a few rappers like Snoop and Ludacris.

 

[joedotnet]

The other night Dr.Drew said that the drugs they found in her room were all anti-depressants. That she didn't need 3 because they were all the same. Anti depressants make you feel good so do you think she could feel invinsible and feel nothing could happen to her?

anti depressants don't make you feel good. they may help you get up in the morning, they may assist in facing the world, they may help with depression but they don't make you feel good. they possibly may make you feel better than when not on them...but it isn't an "invincible" feeling at all.

 

[SuziQ]

I don't think WH had anti drepressants in her room. She had anti anxiety pills.

 

[SuziQ]

If it's true she had 3 different prescriptions for Benzo's I have all the answers I need. So sad

And I hope they weren't from the same doc. No excuse for that whatsoever.

 

[georger]

Just jumping off your post Luz


PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:


There were no essential oils, it was just a thought and sharing someone had. That is what it is.

.

Well that is a relief! :woohoo: No Essential Oils, whatever that is!
Acutllay there is a long list of potential sunstances which could qualify,
up to and including "oil of arsenic", which I hope we can safely assume was not in Whitney's dish-of-essential-oils? near her tub?

See: essential oils - gonzo list:
http://www.anandaapothecary.com/essential-oils.html
But Olive oil was mentioned. I could find no contraindications or warnings related to olive oil drug interactions, at any of the sites below, and at the FDA drug interaction website Olive oil isnt even in the data base:
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/HowToReport/ucm053074.htm
http://google2.fda.gov/search?q=olive+oil&client=FDAgov&site=FDAgov&lr=&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&output=xml_no_dtd&getfields=*
http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/estradot-50-with-olive-oil-1019-3918-3023-0.html

Let's just leave it at that, before getting sidetracked further in gonzology.

Thanks.

lease:

 

[georger]

They never said olive oil. And essential oils are not oily. They are used with a carrier oil. And olive oil is a carrier as well as almond, hazelnut oil, water, etc.

I just mentioned this today and if anyone would read what I said, I said it was just a thought as to maybe she was using essesntial oils. What is the problem? I would rather speculate it was something natural as opposed to a drug over dose. jmo

That is my opinion also - infact "essential oils" seem to be those substances (some not even oils!) which have an aromatic trait, as a primary ingredient. Again the list of socalled "essential oils", at a gonzo website: I dont think "essential oils" is even a pharmacological catagory?

http://www.anandaapothecary.com/essential-oils.html

 

[georger]

"The photo shows the tub still filled with water. There's a gravy dish at the bottom of the tub, which Whitney typically filled with olive oil to keep her skin soft."


http://www.tmz.com/2012/02/14/whitney-houston-death-bathtub-photo/#.TzwwbM5Fuwg

Maybe you need to share this with the Coroner's Office, or a reporter
who can present it publically?

Just a thought.

 

[georger]

When I saw the posts about "essential oils" and their possible connection, I immediately thought, "What about body oils, in general, that many people use when bathing/showering?" For all we know, Ms. Houston could have slipped while getting into or out of the tub due to the greasy, oily residue left by whatever oils she might have used. Many women put body oils into the tub while they bathe, but I put lotions/oils on after I've had my bath or shower and while my skin is still wet. This allows for deeper absorption of the skin-softening agents in these products. The use of any oil-based skin product in the bathtub or shower is an accidental slip-and-fall waiting to happen. jmo

I am 10,000% confident that anything which wound up in Whitney's system, will be revealed in tox and histo tests, period! Whether it came from socalled essetial oils, rubbing oils on, breathing aromatic fumes, ... etc regardless of vehicle of deliverance.

3-8 weeks and it will be public information, unless locked up by the court
pending legal filings.

Anything else is pure speculation imho.

 

[gngr~snap]

Well that is a relief! :woohoo: No Essential Oils, whatever that is!
Acutllay there is a long list of potential sunstances which could qualify,
up to and including "oil of arsenic", which I hope we can safely assume was not in Whitney's dish-of-essential-oils? near her tub?

See: essential oils - gonzo list:
http://www.anandaapothecary.com/essential-oils.html
But Olive oil was mentioned. I could find no contraindications or warnings related to olive oil drug interactions, at any of the sites below, and at the FDA drug interaction website Olive oil isnt even in the data base:
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/HowToReport/ucm053074.htm
http://google2.fda.gov/search?q=olive+oil&client=FDAgov&site=FDAgov&lr=&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&output=xml_no_dtd&getfields=*
http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/estradot-50-with-olive-oil-1019-3918-3023-0.html

Let's just leave it at that, before getting sidetracked further in gonzology.

Thanks.

lease:

I am guilty! I did think perhaps Whitney had added a toxic esssential oil to the olive oil for aromatherapy. HOWEVER after looking at the after photo of the tub with the water still in it. (assuming the gravy boat was holding the "oil") there is no oily "film" on the top of the water as I would expect to see. I have no idea why a gravy boat was there or if the water was even tested for additives. She might have used epsom salt or something similar to try and "detoxify" OR not.
I will put this issue to bed and it will remain there UNLESS her tox screen shows minimal or not a high enough level to cause death.
I'm sure at autopsy her blood and urine were both checked for alcohol.
Those results are available rather quickly.
The ME already knows the results of that test and i have a sneaking suspicion she was not WAY over the legal limit at the time of death.
Time will tell.
Here is a pic of the water. I see no oil.

 

[shana]

I would like to know IF the bathtub photo is legit, who sold it to Splash?

btw, today at some "news" site, I saw a thumbnail of a photo (or more likely an artist's rendering) depicting Whitney on her stomach in the tub. I did not click it to see more.

It's always difficult having to wait for a COD. Unfortunately, such delay generates fodder AND plenty of money to those who exploit a public tragedy, by whatever means, until the official results are released.

I would expect WSers to be mindful of that.

RIP Whitney

 

[gngr~snap]

I would like to know IF the bathtub photo is legit, who sold it to Splash?

btw, today at some "news" site, I saw a thumbnail of a photo (or more likely an artist's rendering) depicting Whitney on her stomach in the tub. I did not click it to see more.

It's always difficult having to wait for a COD. Unfortunately, such delay generates fodder AND plenty of money to those who exploit a public tragedy, by whatever means, until the official results are released.

I would expect WSers to be mindful of that.

RIP Whitney

It was a "recreation" photo NOT Whitney! IOW bs!

Is this bs too?

A man on the third floor right underneath Houston’s suite suddenly experienced water cascading into his bathroom from above at 2:30am.

He swears to me that it was Whitney’s bathtub that was overflowing. He also says that a flat screen television had been been broken–the screen was smashed. My sources at the hotel say there was a “leak” but that it wasn’t from Whitney’s room.

Is Forbes a reliable source? or another National Enquirer?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerfriedman/2012/02/12/whitneys-death-an-earlier-incident/