Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? Poll

[andreww]

This would explain the reason to make the letter so long (so this info is buried).

I really don't believe there was a deliberate attempt to make it long. I believe Patsy simply had no idea what to write or what kind of language to use. She was upper crust and had likely only ever associated with upper crust people. What would a low life criminal sound like or say? She had no clue, so she simply used movie references. The note is just the product of what she could pull out of her head during that stressful time.


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[CorallaroC]

Intent is WHAT he did.

Motive is WHY he did it.

I don’t care for the way the word “theory” is used on the forums. If you go to my “theory” ( http://tinyurl.com/qa5mfbh ) you’ll see a bit of an explanation. I always preferred to call it My Speculative Piece, because IMO that’s all that it is, and it’s the most that any of us has. Thomas and Kolar? Speculation. Anyway, that’s my opinion about that.

So, I say “theory” of intent because IMO none of us are talking real life theories. I’m certainly not. And, I say “theory” of intent because it is a “theory” of WHAT, if IDI, the killer did BUT it is NOT a “theory of WHY he did what he did.

Yes, differentiating between motive and intent can be tricky, and maybe sometimes there’s some overlap. I’ve probably made some mistakes (show me, I’ll say thank you and admit I was wrong) but the “theory” is about what was done. So: “theory” of intent.

Did I make that phrase up? I would be surprised to find out that it is unique to me, but I don’t recall ever seeing it used before. Provisionally, I will take credit.
…

AK

:hypno:
AK...
Perhaps you have repeated the above utter nonsense to yourself too many times. It might be wise to consider the possibility that your "made-up phrase" only makes sense to YOU. And that by repeating it or trying to explain it in a public forum, you could be diminishing your credibility even more THAN your intruder theory itself.

No more explanations please, certainly not for my benefit. I no longer care. period.

 

[UKGuy]

:hypno:
AK...
Perhaps you have repeated the above utter nonsense to yourself too many times. It might be wise to consider the possibility that your "made-up phrase" only makes sense to YOU. And that by repeating it or trying to explain it in a public forum, you could be diminishing your credibility even more THAN your intruder theory itself.

No more explanations please, certainly not for my benefit. I no longer care. period.

CorallaroC,

LOL ...



.

 

[CorallaroC]

Thanks UK Guy, you made me laugh along with ya this morning. Once upon a time you gave me good advice, I should've listened lol.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Am I right that JB's arms were up above her head when she was found lying with the rope and garrote tied loosely to her ankles ? It doesn't seem a normal position to me to tie one's hands up her head to strangle her ? She was already unconcsious from the head bash imo.. So this rings me that maybe while staging rope strangulation , the rigor mortis had already set in and her arm muscles were stiffened in up position and R only could apply the rope thing not being able to change her arm position ..

* Death with head bash before midnight
* At about 05:00-05:30 staging + strangulation by J+ ransom note + 911 call

* The white horizontal lines on her waist back are the bloodless zones due to her tight pants imo..

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body. Rigor mortis and lividity are some of the key factors that are used when Estimating the Time of Death.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Honestly so far I haven't seen any evidence of them looking for an intruder. They will say this in interviews. But it's always an attempt to get people to stop considering them as suspects. So they'll say things like, "We should be looking for the murderer, not focusing on us so much." (not an exact quote, but I've heard them say things similar to this many many times.) However, the behaviour and actions from the Ramsey's don't seem to indicate they are looking for the killer in any way at all. Not even shortly after the murder.

John's interviews seem to be more focused on what he and Patsy went through, how they were accused in the media, rather than finding this mysterious intruder. He doesn't use his media time to try to move the case forward. It's almost like his interviews fit the BDI theory. He's not going to bother going on and on about catching this mysterious intruder, here is how he can help, but he still wants to talk about how the media treated his family (since he may think that him and Patsy did nothing wrong and were just protecting their son).

 

[SapphireSteel]

John's interviews seem to be more focused on what he and Patsy went through, how they were accused in the media, rather than finding this mysterious intruder. He doesn't use his media time to try to move the case forward. It's almost like his interviews fit the BDI theory. He's not going to bother going on and on about catching this mysterious intruder, here is how he can help, but he still wants to talk about how the media treated his family (since he may think that him and Patsy did nothing wrong and were just protecting their son).

Again, JR behavior is so controlling that I consider it a minor miracle Domestic Violence isn't more considered in this case.

It explains EVERYTHING.

If JR was/is one of those Control Freaks who bullies the crap out of his family it explains the odd off tap behavior of both Patsy and Burke.

It explains the stab at JR in the Ransom Note (the only way PR perhaps could hint the truth)

It explains Burkes ongoing silence, and JR's taking to the Airwaves (again) to reclaim his spot as Americas Most Grievingest Dad and Vote for Ramsey.

Ugh

 

[andreww]

I don't even know what to say about John. He never says anything relevant, he's simply a media spokesperson. With Lacey's exoneration in the books it is unlikely that he will ever speak to fact or evidence again. Why would he? His speaking points are now about persecution, forgiveness and the future. Impossible to get tripped up on any one of those topics.


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[andreww]

And btw, merry Christmas to all, be you IDI or RDI. As we are mere hours from the 19th anniversary of this crime, let's hope that there is a Christmas miracle and that we have an arrest by the 20th anniversary.

I'm talkin about you John [emoji848]


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[Ellie9]

Am I right that JB's arms were up above her head when she was found lying with the rope and garrote tied loosely to her ankles ? It doesn't seem a normal position to me to tie one's hands up her head to strangle her ? She was already unconcsious from the head bash imo.. So this rings me that maybe while staging rope strangulation , the rigor mortis had already set in and her arm muscles were stiffened in up position and R only could apply the rope thing not being able to change her arm position ..

* Death with head bash before midnight
* At about 05:00-05:30 staging + strangulation by J+ ransom note + 911 call

* The white horizontal lines on her waist back are the bloodless zones due to her tight pants imo..

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body. Rigor mortis and lividity are some of the key factors that are used when Estimating the Time of Death.

Her arms were tied up above her head yes. We're not sure if her arms were tied before or after death. All we know is that it was reported the ties were way too loose to indicate that they could have actually restrained a conscious, uninjured, scared child. So rope at least appears to have been put on after head bash. The rest of the timing all speculation.

The strangulation though had been her official cause of death according to autopsy. So it seems that she was unconscious from the head bash, probably appeared dead, and the strangulation killed her. I'm not sure if there is a consensus, but I heard a few times that the strangulation would have taken place around two hours or so after the head blow.

As far as I can tell we were never given a time of death from examiner. This is why so many theories can be all over the pace with timing.

.....
Uh, anyway . Merry Christmas!


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[STANDREID]

The whole family is weird but Patsy is the creepiest of all so she gets my vote as the most likely.

 

[Annapurna]

Yeah the coroner was sloppy, probably irritated to be called away from christmas. He did not do any of the tests that would determine cause of death at the scene.

The hand bindings are strange. The length between them seem to suggest they were put on after rigor had set in. I believe that the length could also be explained by someone using up all of the remaining cord. Then there is no cord to have to dispose of. Additionally the tape may have been ripped off of something. It was only the one piece, and one less thing to get rid of. Then the only remaining evidence to hide/dispose of is her panties and the tip of the brush. Simple enough to throw into the furnace. No plastic or nylon which wouldn't burn well.


About Domestic Violence:

I think the whole house was dysfunctional. It's possible that PR was the aggressor, not JR. She seems more unstable.
She's not the victim type. She seems very "take charge" by stories of her event planning and as class mom and all that. We usually assume the male must be the perpetrator (as stats support) but female perpetrated domestic violence is underreported.

PR was clearly controlling with her children. It's possible she used her children against JR, to control him too. Its also possible she used her children against each other (your sister would never do that! etc.) That would cause rivalry and be specifically harming to BR as he was older and likely to be less compliant. I believe PR may have had Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This can cause some really toxic households. I think her mother Nedra shows some signs as well. If this kind of controlling behavior was normalized in her upbringing, she would probably mirror it with her own children. Frequently away from home, JR may have not known the extent of her behavior. NPD can cause a great deal of anxiety in the children of someone with it. I remember the housekeeper said BR's bedwetting stopped when he stopped being the target of PR's attention.

I think the Paughs show symptoms of being an enmeshed family, which is often comorbid with an NPD parent. The way PR and her sister were part of pageants and the way Nedra pushed for JB to be Miss America show signs of them trying hard to please their mother. PR is very much a people-pleaser

I know this is out of left field, but I have some sneaking suspicions about some sexual abuse going on in PR's family home. If she grew up with this, it again might normalize certain behavior. If the SA was never acknowledged in her family and she never got any help dealing with it, she may have just repressed it or stayed in denial. Trauma at a young age can cause a kind of "compartmentalization" in people. If PR had that, it may have contributed to her reasoning for staging the scene. She would have wanted to hide and deny the problem more than maybe she would have already. In doing this she also allowed herself to deny that it even really happened. To lie to herself much more easily. Perhaps to the point where she believes herself.

To continue the idea of PR experiencing SA at a young age, I have another idea (completely without evidence other than knowing what happens in other families). Perhaps (big perhaps) BR was being molested by PR's father Don Paugh (I don't feel like looking up if that's his name, correct me if I'm wrong). JB was clearly molested. She was molested on an ongoing basis. It seems likely that BR was involved. PR and JR don't seem like molesters (I know that means less than nothing). If BR was molested, he would have learned that behavior of predation and could have inflicted in on JB. It seems like if JR was molesting JB, they probably wouldn't have stayed together. Same sex maternal sexual abuse is somewhat rare and tends to happen under different circumstances.



Anyhow, all totally conjecture. Ignore if you like.


.........

Merry Christmas everyone. Non-denominational prayers and positive energy to all, especially to the memory of the one who brings us all together.

I hope the Ghost of Christmas Past visits one of us and brings us to Boulder, 1996. Full Moon tonight too. Any witches out there? A powerful night for magic tonight. Ask the spirits to guide us.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yeah the coroner was sloppy, probably irritated to be called away from christmas. He did not do any of the tests that would determine cause of death at the scene.

The hand bindings are strange. The length between them seem to suggest they were put on after rigor had set in. I believe that the length could also be explained by someone using up all of the remaining cord. Then there is no cord to have to dispose of. Additionally the tape may have been ripped off of something. It was only the one piece, and one less thing to get rid of. Then the only remaining evidence to hide/dispose of is her panties and the tip of the brush. Simple enough to throw into the furnace. No plastic or nylon which wouldn't burn well.


About Domestic Violence:

I think the whole house was dysfunctional. It's possible that PR was the aggressor, not JR. She seems more unstable.
She's not the victim type. She seems very "take charge" by stories of her event planning and as class mom and all that. We usually assume the male must be the perpetrator (as stats support) but female perpetrated domestic violence is underreported.

PR was clearly controlling with her children. It's possible she used her children against JR, to control him too. Its also possible she used her children against each other (your sister would never do that! etc.) That would cause rivalry and be specifically harming to BR as he was older and likely to be less compliant. I believe PR may have had Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This can cause some really toxic households. I think her mother Nedra shows some signs as well. If this kind of controlling behavior was normalized in her upbringing, she would probably mirror it with her own children. Frequently away from home, JR may have not known the extent of her behavior. NPD can cause a great deal of anxiety in the children of someone with it. I remember the housekeeper said BR's bedwetting stopped when he stopped being the target of PR's attention.

I think the Paughs show symptoms of being an enmeshed family, which is often comorbid with an NPD parent. The way PR and her sister were part of pageants and the way Nedra pushed for JB to be Miss America show signs of them trying hard to please their mother. PR is very much a people-pleaser

I know this is out of left field, but I have some sneaking suspicions about some sexual abuse going on in PR's family home. If she grew up with this, it again might normalize certain behavior. If the SA was never acknowledged in her family and she never got any help dealing with it, she may have just repressed it or stayed in denial. Trauma at a young age can cause a kind of "compartmentalization" in people. If PR had that, it may have contributed to her reasoning for staging the scene. She would have wanted to hide and deny the problem more than maybe she would have already. In doing this she also allowed herself to deny that it even really happened. To lie to herself much more easily. Perhaps to the point where she believes herself.

To continue the idea of PR experiencing SA at a young age, I have another idea (completely without evidence other than knowing what happens in other families). Perhaps (big perhaps) BR was being molested by PR's father Don Paugh (I don't feel like looking up if that's his name, correct me if I'm wrong). JB was clearly molested. She was molested on an ongoing basis. It seems likely that BR was involved. PR and JR don't seem like molesters (I know that means less than nothing). If BR was molested, he would have learned that behavior of predation and could have inflicted in on JB. It seems like if JR was molesting JB, they probably wouldn't have stayed together. Same sex maternal sexual abuse is somewhat rare and tends to happen under different circumstances.



Anyhow, all totally conjecture. Ignore if you like.


.........

Merry Christmas everyone. Non-denominational prayers and positive energy to all, especially to the memory of the one who brings us all together.

I hope the Ghost of Christmas Past visits one of us and brings us to Boulder, 1996. Full Moon tonight too. Any witches out there? A powerful night for magic tonight. Ask the spirits to guide us.

PR is more unstable = PR is not the victim type

Can you see the contradiction in those words? If PR is unstable, she could be the victim type AND the aggressor type, all in one.

All we know is how controlling PR appeared OUTSIDE the home.

Within the home it was entirely different.

JR alone was the multimillionaire CEO who went and powered up his plane without turning a hair when he found his daughters body.

PR packed the suitcases.

Who seems more In Charge the next day when observers were Within the Home?

JR, that's who.

JR who had to go find the body because everyone else was too useless too.

JR who took control of the crime scene

not PR who just sat about like a useless stunned mullet summonsing support for herself.

JR was the Action Man of the Day = JR was the Action Man of the Night Before Too

 

[Annapurna]

I agree with you in some ways. I think its possible that JR "directed" the staging. Telling PR to write the note. Staging and cleaning the body. I imagine that he could have told PR to bring him the materials, the cord and the tape, which could explain her fibers on things.

I think you're right about her being a victim and an aggressor, I hadn't considered it that way. It would suit her need for attention and desire for control. She could have been a victim of JR and the aggressor toward her children. She does always, always look at JR when he is talking. This body language suggests she cares very much about what he is saying.

In all I think this still supports the idea of a highly dysfunctional household. PR, the people pleaser, does everything she can to project an image of perfection. The better they look on the outside, the less people suspect any abuse on the inside.

 

[AndHence]

With the popularity of Serial, The Jinx, and Making a Murderer, I hope there's a 20th anniversary doc about the murder of JonBenet. Something to draw renewed interest to the case.

 

[Ellie9]

With the popularity of Serial, The Jinx, and Making a Murderer, I hope there's a 20th anniversary doc about the murder of JonBenet. Something to draw renewed interest to the case.

A really detailed, methodical examination would be fantastic. Also it would be best if they, being celebrities or in the media anyway, get access to information and sources that we couldn't.

This is gory, forgive me here, but there are some pictures we don't have, like her face. I can't help but to wonder if there are a few key facts they are leaving out so that they have some things to investigate if a person admits guilt or admits knowledge of the events of the night. Like, was something written on her (aside from the heart on her hand which may have been done by JBR herself). Were there other clues that we just don't have? If there are, I wonder at what time they would be released, if no one admits guilt or knowledge?

 

[SapphireSteel]

With the popularity of Serial, The Jinx, and Making a Murderer, I hope there's a 20th anniversary doc about the murder of JonBenet. Something to draw renewed interest to the case.

Powers that be in Colorado don't WANT renewed interest in the case

Reputations will be ruined

They dropped the ball again and again and tried to cover it up

Thereby rendering Jonbenet Virtually Unsolvable except by (perhaps) time which seems to be leading more and more down the RDI path.

A deathbed confession will solve it - but the scene was so messed up by the first respondents it is now virtually impossible any other way.

I don't expect a deathbed confession btw. I think JR's power and control is sufficient to ensure the Truth is NEVER heard, at least until after he's died.

 

[Annapurna]

As much as I would love a tantalizing new clue I doubt there will be one. I think Kolar said himself that there are a few things but nothing big held back.

That heart is something I forget about a lot. It doesn't even look like a heart to me. I bet JB and Daphne were coloring that night. They were doing crafts together (with FW & JR as reported) making paper beads I think. It would not surprise me if they got a craft box of some kind out with markers in it.

It's one of those pieces of evidence that takes great significance (especially to IDI usually) but really probably means nothing.

Although it does make me wonder about the supposed "no no no" written on a picture with JR's face in a heart? Since that's straight out of a movie also, it could have been an extension of the RN.

So many "funny little clues".

 

[eileenhawkeye]

“Kitty Green’s film Casting JonBenet represents the type of daring and meaningful cinema that Rooftop Films wants to support,” said Rooftop’s Founder and Artistic Director Mark Elijah Rosenberg. Green’s film is a sly and stylized documentary about the infamous murder of child model JonBenet Ramsey, using casting tapes and recreations by people from the community to create an emotional investigation of the case and its ramifications. “

http://www.vimooz.com/2015/12/11/2015-rooftop-filmmakers-fund-grant-winners/

Looks like it will be part of the Sundane Film Festival: http://www.sundance.org/blogs/progr...-announces-projects-selected-for-2015-support

 

[Annapurna]

Thats exciting! It sounds like it might be mostly about the media circus though :/