"Who would leave children that young alone?"

[fabgod]

BBM- I'm assuming that she didn't know that children had been left alone at this point as if she had known then she wouldn't of ignored it. The Mccanns told the police that Madeleine had said they were crying though adding that they had checked

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077680/Rebuttal of "Fact" 11

It's a case of she said/they said.

What's interesting is that she says she saw a man looking into the Mccanns apartment (although says further down she didn't see any strange person or action before or after the event) and that someone had tried to burgle her.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

What Yvonne Martin said is hearsay and not admissible in court.

The apartment was 50 metres as the crow flies and near 77 metres in walking distance. Their view of the actual apartment was pretty much obstructed but they could see the building. They asked to be seated where they were because it was closest and due to the checks they'd be making.

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077600/Rebuttal of "Fact" 9

Just for your purposes of considering all angles, you do know that the McCanns were seated with their backs to apartment 5a don't you?

Oh, I just realised the source you are quoting from, is set up to disprove the Madeleine McCann Research Group which I am guessing from the statements is a group that is against the McCanns and the madeleinemythsexposed site is run by I dont know who?
Not a problem but hardly comparable to the official police files imo

 

[BritsKate]

I really don't consider what evidence would be admissible in a court of law when forming my personal opinion. Here's the thing - the McCann's and friends say one thing - and several others, with apparently nothing to gain, say another.

The McCann's conceded having left Maddie to cry the previous evening. Why should the neighbour who heard the children crying bear more responsibility here than a child's parents? The neighbour is certain the child was crying 75 minutes. He said/she said or not - the very fact that the McCann's willingly admit they left their children alone calls into account their veracity as to check in times. They were socializing, drinking, dining and enjoying their holiday. It isn't unreasonable to believe time got away from them.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I really don't consider what evidence would be admissible in a court of law when forming my personal opinion. Here's the thing - the McCann's and friends say one thing - and several others, with apparently nothing to gain, say another.

The McCann's conceded having left Maddie to cry the previous evening. Why should the neighbour who heard the children crying bear more responsibility here than a child's parents? The neighbour is certain the child was crying 75 minutes. He said/she said or not - the very fact that the McCann's willingly admit they left their children alone calls into account their veracity as to check in times. They were socializing, drinking, dining and enjoying their holiday. It isn't unreasonable to believe time got away from them.

I believe the crying was not just the evening before.

Pamela Fenn's statement confirms she heard it on the evening of 1 May.

Madeleine herself asked her parents why the hadn't come when she and her baby brother cried on the evening of the 2nd of May.

That is two nights that the children were left alone to cry...for extended periods of time, which implies to me that no half hourly checks were ever made until the night of the crime...the final night of the holiday.

One could take the logic one step further and assume the children were left alone to cry/not cry, every single night of the holiday, un-checked and disregarded, until THIS night.

What changed? A sudden need for a "cover up", that's what.

:banghead:

 

[sherlockh]

I believe the crying was not just the evening before.

Pamela Fenn's statement confirms she heard it on the evening of 1 May.

Madeleine herself asked her parents why the hadn't come when she and her baby brother cried on the evening of the 2nd of May.

That is two nights that the children were left alone to cry...for extended periods of time, which implies to me that no half hourly checks were ever made until the night of the crime...the final night of the holiday.

One could take the logic one step further and assume the children were left alone to cry/not cry, every single night of the holiday, un-checked and disregarded, until THIS night.

What changed? A sudden need for a "cover up", that's what.

:banghead:

Yes, Pamela Fenn heard the crying on May 1st. On May 2nd she wasn't there that evening. We don't know much about the night of May 2nd. One of the reasons why I think whatever happened to Madeleine happened that night. The story that Madeleine came to them telling about the crying twins does not ring true to me. It is one of their covers for Madeleine still being alive that night, and possibly the twins were crying because of the commotion so they covered that also since they did not know if anybody had heard. They got lucky the neighbor was out. All JMO.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yes, Pamela Fenn heard the crying on May 1st. On May 2nd she wasn't there that evening. We don't know much about the night of May 2nd. One of the reasons why I think whatever happened to Madeleine happened that night. The story that Madeleine came to them telling about the crying twins does not ring true to me. It is one of their covers for Madeleine still being alive that night, and possibly the twins were crying because of the commotion so they covered that also since they did not know if anybody had heard. They got lucky the neighbor was out. All JMO.

The last confirmed (non Tapas) sighting of Madeleine was 5.30pm May 3 when Kate/Kate and Gerry (it differs) signed her out of the creche.

This means she cried unattended for (at least) two evenings, and went missing on the third.

 

[sherlockh]

The last confirmed (non Tapas) sighting of Madeleine was 5.30pm May 3 when Kate/Kate and Gerry (it differs) signed her out of the creche.

This means she cried unattended for (at least) two evenings, and went missing on the third.

The last confirmed (non Tapas) sighting of Madeleine was 5.30pm May 3 when Kate/Kate and Gerry (it differs) signed her out of the creche.

This means she cried unattended for (at least) two evenings, and went missing on the third.

Signed creche records don't really mean anything if nobody checks. So what confirmed sighting is there? The confused nannies? Or the one from Miguel Matias that contradicts the McCann's and friends statements that the McCann's were not at the restaurant? CCTV images show the friends at the restaurant but not the McCann's.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/PARAISO.htm

In fact, if you get into it then there is no credible sighting of Madeleine not only for May 3rd but also for the days before that. Some people even speculate that Madeleine never even went to Portugal. Gerry had to go to England to get a sample of Madeleine's DNA. McCann's state that Madeleine didn't use a toothbrush??? It took 3 weeks and a trip to England with Kate's digital camera before Gerry came up with one (photo shopped?) photo of Madeleine on May 3rd. It is all very confusing (and rather unbelievable IMO) and it makes it very difficult to establish exactly when Madeleine had died.

 

[Donjeta]

Shouldn't the airline be able to tell how many children the McCanns traveled with?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Signed creche records don't really mean anything if nobody checks. So what confirmed sighting is there? The confused nannies? Or the one from Miguel Matias that contradicts the McCann's and friends statements that the McCann's were not at the restaurant? CCTV images show the friends at the restaurant but not the McCann's.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/PARAISO.htm

In fact, if you get into it then there is no credible sighting of Madeleine not only for May 3rd but also for the days before that. Some people even speculate that Madeleine never even went to Portugal. Gerry had to go to England to get a sample of Madeleine's DNA. McCann's state that Madeleine didn't use a toothbrush??? It took 3 weeks and a trip to England with Kate's digital camera before Gerry came up with one (photo shopped?) photo of Madeleine on May 3rd. It is all very confusing (and rather unbelievable IMO) and it makes it very difficult to establish exactly when Madeleine had died.

Not quite sure what this means?

The creche workers confirmed Madeleine's presence...

Do you have a link for the photoshop claim? The photo of Madeleine holding the tennis balls was taken at the resort...

:dunno:

TIA

 

[fabgod]

The PJ take the last confirmed sighting as being approx 5.30pm on the 3rd May 2007, I understand SherlockH when he/she states the confused Nannies and it is questionable as to how "independent these sightings are.

I read somewhere that KM tried to contact one of the nannies on several occasions, possibly successfully, that then begs the question why?
Having said that why? could also be asked regarding Gerry McCann writing to Martin Grimes (the Dog Handler) boss?

Back on topic, why would the McCanns sign Madeleine out from the creche if she was having "High Tea" at the pool at 5.30pm?

 

[sherlockh]

Not quite sure what this means?

The creche workers confirmed Madeleine's presence...

Do you have a link for the photoshop claim? The photo of Madeleine holding the tennis balls was taken at the resort...

:dunno:

TIA

I think (or hope) the nannies were not purposely covering for the McCann's. They were however friendly with them and probably thought they were being helpful. Then there is the creche sheet that might have inspired them to assume Madeleine was indeed present.

There is a long theory on the net that I mostly subscribe to. It explains a lot of things. It has a lot of links in it as well:
http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com/p/theory-english.html

I am not a photo expert, but I think it is easy enough to insert a certain date into a digital photo (poolside photo). As for the tennis photo, sunburned arm with white hand..I dunno...just strange. Kate says she took it on May 1st, and Rachel said Jane took it on May 3rd. Who knows when it was taken?

Here is an interesting comparison between the tennis court and pool photo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BJfm_veCJF8

Hope that I didn't go too much off topic. I wouldn't leave any kids that young alone

 

[fabgod]

I think (or hope) the nannies were not purposely covering for the McCann's. They were however friendly with them and probably thought they were being helpful. Then there is the creche sheet that might have inspired them to assume Madeleine was indeed present.

There is a long theory on the net that I mostly subscribe to. It explains a lot of things. It has a lot of links in it as well:
http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com/p/theory-english.html

I am not a photo expert, but I think it is easy enough to insert a certain date into a digital photo (poolside photo). As for the tennis photo, sunburned arm with white hand..I dunno...just strange. Kate says she took it on May 1st, and Rachel said Jane took it on May 3rd. Who knows when it was taken?

Here is an interesting comparison between the tennis court and pool photo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BJfm_veCJF8

Hope that I didn't go too much off topic. I wouldn't leave any kids that young alone

Sherlockh
Thank you for the excellent link provided above and repeated below,


http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com/p/theory-english.html

Makes it very clear as to why such efforts are made into discrediting certain results and statements/events in my opinion, well worth a read.

 

[osadelnorte]

Not quite sure what this means?

The creche workers confirmed Madeleine's presence...

Do you have a link for the photoshop claim? The photo of Madeleine holding the tennis balls was taken at the resort...

:dunno:

TIA

Hi, I'm new to this thread...besides the photo of Madeleine holding the tennis balls, there is also the one of her, Amelie and Gerry sitting poolside. That one was taken in the resort too, ostensibly. Which picture is supposed to have been Photoshopped?

ETA: Okay, I read ahead and I see now. That Unter... site is very interesting, thank you for sharing it. I had not seen it until now.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yes thank you for sharing the site. :cheers:

I intend to read thoroughly and fact check...I am wary of any assumptions whatsoever in this case and there is a LOT alleged. For instance, the familys presence at breakfast every day - were they or weren't they? It should be easy enough to test this allegation.

I have actually kicked around the idea of writing my own book on Madeleine, condensing checked fact from all sources and putting forth a solid theory in the hope that it may somehow help to counteract all the speculation and half truths still floating around.

Ironically that will probably coincide with a lot of whats on this site. I believe this author has nailed some family dynamics to a T.

 

[brit1981]

I do not think any police organisation have claimed that the two photos were photoshopped, this has just been put around on some internet forum by someone unconnected to the case and who has never had access to the originals of the photos or the camera they were taken with or the computers the mccanns had access to. But the kidsclub workers have said madeleine was with them on that day so unless people are now going to claim they are wrong, I do not see the point of photoshopping photos.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I've seen claims that they were photoshopped. I'd pretty well written that off as carp anyway...under the KISS theory.

The website is worth a look and well written but factually flawed.

 

[Clutchbag]

It remains a mystery though why maddies last photo was not released until weeks later

 

[SapphireSteel]

The ways of the McCann.

They probably spaced these things out for when the headlines dropped away.

For a while there, it felt like there was a new suspect, every single month, like clockwork.

They have a PR team, their job is to work the media.

:cow:

 

[Clutchbag]

The ways of the McCann.

They probably spaced these things out for when the headlines dropped away.

For a while there, it felt like there was a new suspect, every single month, like clockwork.

They have a PR team, their job is to work the media.

:cow:

and when all else fails they regurgitate year old sightings and amend them as well, last case in point, in 2007 or 2008 there was the story about that taxi driver spotting madeleine in the back of hiscab at 8pm on thursday 3rd may, lo and behold the story appeared as NEW last year but this time it was that he spotted her on 4th May, thus creating the illusion that she WAS alive post 3rd May I suppose, ho hum

 

[fabgod]

The whole "spokesman" thing is bizarre imo,
I can understand that they may have needed a spokesperson in the early days but in the past couple of years, why would they need a spokesperson?
Is it too much for them to make a personal statement every so often, do they really need Clarence Mitchell to be trotted out to say they sympathise with April Jones parents or that they are releasing a new book, is it that difficult for them to personally do that?

I would suggest that they have a spokesperson in place to manage what is said, for what reason? only they know.

The moment the story changed for me, was the news that Gerry McCann was planning a "big event" that would have featured people like Elton John, this was in the first few weeks of Madeleine going missing (3rd June 2007 to be exact), who would be even thinking like that at that time, surely as Parents they would have been hoping and praying that Madeleine would be found the next day, not planning for months ahead to keep the profile up, a major faux pas from my way of thinking.

 

[Clutchbag]

The PJ take the last confirmed sighting as being approx 5.30pm on the 3rd May 2007, I understand SherlockH when he/she states the confused Nannies and it is questionable as to how "independent these sightings are.

I read somewhere that KM tried to contact one of the nannies on several occasions, possibly successfully, that then begs the question why?
Having said that why? could also be asked regarding Gerry McCann writing to Martin Grimes (the Dog Handler) boss?

Back on topic, why would the McCanns sign Madeleine out from the creche if she was having "High Tea" at the pool at 5.30pm?

i think the kids were taken for their tea to the pool tapas area around fivish and the parents would sign when collecting them from there, not at the actual creche

The nanny statements are not 100% reliable, at least charlotte pennington has contradicted herself between what was in her statement to the police and what she said on a channel four documentary

As for GM writing to Grimes boss, the brass neck was there from the first minute, controlling every thing that he could, tampering with evidence etc